The true living God

[ding]

I figure he should get all the credit or none. Doesn't that make sense?

Seems fair enough. Why don’t you do it?

Blame God for why I don't. God loves reason. He created it. My reason tells me the God of the Bible doesn't exist. Since I don't know how the universe was created, I don't know if a god was behind it.

Also, is it your belief that no good can come from bad?

I'm sure it could. I raised 2 kids and punished them when appropriate so they would turn out good. What I never did was to make them suffer when they did nothing wrong. I also never punished one for the misdeeds of the other. Supposedly God loves us yet he does to us what I could never do to my own children. You can excuse God, saying he knows what we don't but I don't buy it.

You believe that it is God’s fault that you only see the bad and not the good?

Your problem is a poor opinion of God. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Taz]

I think, if I were Satan and wanted to bring mischief into the world, my weapon of choice would be faith, a great counter to reason.

Maybe if you had a little faith you would be more reasonable.

Maybe if you had more reason you'd have to rely less on faith to find God.

God loves reason. He created it.

So then why do you need faith to know god and not reason?

I believe both are required.

You need more than facts because the facts don't support god by themselves.

 

[ding]

Maybe if you had a little faith you would be more reasonable.

Maybe if you had more reason you'd have to rely less on faith to find God.

God loves reason. He created it.

So then why do you need faith to know god and not reason?

I believe both are required.

You need more than facts because the facts don't support god by themselves.

Sure they do. I’ve explained it to you many times.

 

[alang1216]

You believe that it is God’s fault that you only see the bad and not the good?

No, I see both good and bad, that's not a problem. What's God's fault is that he gave me the ability to think and reason. It's obvious he doesn't want us to just accept on faith what we're told, otherwise why give us reason. He wants us to look at his work, the world, and learn.

Your problem is a poor opinion of God. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

Maybe so. Would you agree that your good opinion of God is also a self fulfilling prophecy?

 

[Taz]

Maybe if you had more reason you'd have to rely less on faith to find God.

God loves reason. He created it.

So then why do you need faith to know god and not reason?

I believe both are required.

You need more than facts because the facts don't support god by themselves.

Sure they do. I’ve explained it to you many times.

If you have enough facts you don't need faith. Now go back to work, I'll have a Happy Meal.

 

[ding]

You believe that it is God’s fault that you only see the bad and not the good?

No, I see both good and bad, that's not a problem. What's God's fault is that he gave me the ability to think and reason. It's obvious he doesn't want us to just accept on faith what we're told, otherwise why give us reason. He wants us to look at his work, the world, and learn.

Your problem is a poor opinion of God. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

Maybe so. Would you agree that your good opinion of God is also a self fulfilling prophecy?

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[ding]

God loves reason. He created it.

So then why do you need faith to know god and not reason?

I believe both are required.

You need more than facts because the facts don't support god by themselves.

Sure they do. I’ve explained it to you many times.

If you have enough facts you don't need faith. Now go back to work, I'll have a Happy Meal.

Wrong. Reason informs faith.

 

[Taz]

So then why do you need faith to know god and not reason?

I believe both are required.

You need more than facts because the facts don't support god by themselves.

Sure they do. I’ve explained it to you many times.

If you have enough facts you don't need faith. Now go back to work, I'll have a Happy Meal.

Wrong. Reason informs faith.

 

[ding]

It’s hard to argue against the truth.

 

[alang1216]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

 

[emilynghiem]

Actually those other gods are false made up gods-they do not exist. It is satan posing as those gods. Yet billions give them worship.

But you can see through Satan's posing where billions of others can't? How do you know you are not being fooled too?

I think, if I were Satan and wanted to bring mischief into the world, my weapon of choice would be faith, a great counter to reason.

Dear alang1216
Where people on here show "satanic" influence
is in thinking that people must be DIVIDED where we see things differently.
this FEAR of other knowledge or ways, the FEAR of change or influence
by others, the FEAR of conflict and confrontation and differences,
that is what is represented by "Satan, Antichrist, and False Prophet"
which is the opposite forces to "Father, Son and Holy Spirit"
which represent
* Universal Truth/Wisdom/Love/Laws and forces of Life/Nature Collectively
* Laws of Justice, Restorative Justice that REDEEMS, corrects and reconciles all humanity with Universal Truth/Love
* Spiritual Peace healing and uniting all humanity
by Grace or Divine Forgiveness and perfect love/good will for all

The nontheist who sees the world and all laws in the universe
through SECULAR terms and not a PERSONIFICATION
(such as Truth, Justice and Peace instead of Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
is not going to talk about Universal truths the same way
as a Christian or Theist who uses religious symbolism or scriptural verses
to express the same Universal principles and meanings.

For example, the Buddhist who sees Life as impersonal and as a
holistic interconnected World or Universe, may not understand
THIS IS THE SAME SOURCE being discussed when a Christian
talks about the source or author of Life as YHVH or Yehovah.

That doesn't mean we should divide and reject one another.

The people who DO reject on the basis of language and ways
of communicating because all tribes are different and
individuals unique, are not as aware of the influence of
FORGIVENESS and UNFORGIVENESS on the ability of people
to RECONCILE in truth instead of REJECT one another.

Many of the tribal members are so FEARFUL they will be
forced to compromise the truth if they relate to others of
different tribes, that they JUDGE and REJECT the other side,
blaming it on that other person or group.

So this FEAR is where "satan" divides and conquers people
to keep oppression going in circles, projecting blame back and forth.
You can see it between Political Parties even WORSE than between
religious groups (and in the Middle East or in China where
Political Religions are in charge of Govt, you see both at the
same time which is even more dangerous and militant/violent)

alang1216 what I found to be the critical factor
1. If people individually or as a "group" have not fully
FORGIVEN other people or other "groups" then this
hinders our ability to RECONCILE and include each other equally
(regardless of our differences or conflicts in thoughts or beliefs)
2. UNFORGIVENESS of past issues or conflicts is what
causes people to REJECT and judge other people/groups as "inferior"

^ And THIS is why I find Christians put SO MUCH EMPHASIS
on FAITH in "Christ Jesus as RESTORATIVE JUSTICE" to
FORGIVE FIRST in order to RECEIVE CORRECTION and TRUTH.

The KEY to change, instead of putting the responsibility for change
on others, projecting this EXTERNALLY instead of working
on themselves EQUALLY with the understanding that
change and growth is MUTUAL and takes equal effort
by BOTH people/groups in the RELATIONSHIP.

As long as people in general and especially online do not forgive
these differences, they stay in this "divided" state.
they keep "trying to change others instead of changing themselves."

The three FEARS that basically defeat us:

* FEAR of the UNKNOWN that divides and rejects
(instead of LOVE of TRUTH that unites and corrects)
The DIVISION fueled by SELFISH desire and ego
is where Satanic influence manipulates people.
Remaining willfully ignorant and refusing and denying
greater truth that would actually RESOLVE these conflicts
is part of that SELFISH bias where "Satan" pits people
and groups against each other instead of uniting in TRUTH.

* FEAR of CHANGE and CONTROL BY OTHERS (instead of love of
EQUAL JUSTICE and shared responsibility for laws and RELATIONSHIPS)
The need to control or compel OTHERS to change
instead of changing oneself and to BLAME OTHER GROUPS
as "oppressing and controlling" is part of the ANTICHRIST
spirit. The ones who CLAIM to represent the TRUTH authority
of JUSTICE, yet UNJUSTLY condemn and judge others,
this is the "antichrist" rejection in individuals that when it
becomes a COLLECTIVE group manifests as "Antichrist"
which oppresses individuals, resists change and correction,
and fuels religious and political "mob mentality" as we see
between tribes jockeying to dominate for control of the narrative.

* FEAR OF CONFLICT, CONFRONTATION AND WAR
(instead of love of PEACE and faith in HEALING to unite HUMANITY)
The opposite of the Holy Spirit which normally brings PEACE
and comfort by words of wisdom, grace, forgiveness and
reconciliation/peacemaking is instead corrupted as negative
hate speech, false teaching and projection, and divisive
preaching instead of unifying enlightening solutions.
This is referred to as the False Prophet, that foments
distrust, fear and war instead of inspiring forgiveness
good will correction in truth, for justice and peace.

As for kjw47 and also BreezeWood
they both speak as peacefully and civilly as possible.

I blame the hierarchy of religious groups for why
we cannot communicate better. For some people
who follow leaders with more influence on their
groups, it may take rebuke and correction between
Tribal leaders before the other community members
who follow will feel safe to embrace change on
both sides as needed to establish the GREATER TRUTH
and quit arguing and rejecting over the parts that we see.

 

[ding]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

 

[alang1216]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

 

[Capri]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions?

Free will.
Same as for greed, jealousy, hate, and evil. God instructs; we obey or not.

 

[emilynghiem]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

 

[alang1216]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions?

Free will.
Same as for greed, jealousy, hate, and evil. God instructs; we obey or not.

Not buying it. How many children, growing up in the mountains of Pakistan today have been exposed to Christianity? How many growing up 1,000 years ago in China? How many growing up 2,000 years ago in the capital city of the Aztecs?

 

[alang1216]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

 

[emilynghiem]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear alang1216 Sorry if that wasn't clear
and the msg was too long and unnecessary.

In short Christ Jesus representing "Restorative Justice"
is UNIVERSAL to all people and tribes/religions, even if
they express their laws in different ways.

We can still have Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, Christians
all living by RESTORATIVE JUSTICE and fulfill the meaning and
message of Salvation as symbolized in the Bible.

"Restorative Justice" still fulfills ALL these "relative/diverse" laws equally.
So you don't have to give up being an atheist, a Buddhist, a Muslim to
receive Christ Jesus/Restorative Justice that completes whatever path
you are on and whatever language you use to describe your understanding of life and God.

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

There is still ONE universal all-inclusive TRUTH and spirit of universal JUSTICE
(which God and Jesus represent collectively) that FULFILLS all other relative
expressions, laws and religions that represent our understanding of these laws.

So to become unified in Christ (or by Conscience) is for all of us to forgive our differences
and reach common understanding of the universal truth/justice that exists independent
of our different or conflicting ways of representing these laws or principles.

We SUCCEED in coming together by agreeing to RECEIVE each other
in the spirit of Restorative Justice or Christ Jesus.

We FAIL if we continue to live by RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE and judge/punish/reject
each other for differences and conflicts instead of forgiving and correcting what we can.

So the only way we get to UNIVERSAL TRUTH and peace established on earth,
starting with individual relations and collectively restoring society and humanity in peace,
is through this RESTORATIVE JUSTICE approach which Christ Jesus represents
"as the only way to save all humanity."

the other approaches that DIVIDE by retributive justice and ill will FAIL and only continue
war and destructive conflict so we don't establish common truth justice and peace.

 

[alang1216]

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.