The Thief in the Vatican

[Liminal]

Let's talk about the ROCK.


Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2Sa_22:47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
2Sa_22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
2Sa_22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
2Sa_22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;



Psa_18:31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
Psa_18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psa_28:1 A Psalm of David. Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

There are plenty more.

The Greek text is a translation of Jesus' words, which were actually spoken in Aramaic. Aramaic only had one word for rock, kephas (which is why Peter is often called Cephas in the Bible). The word Kephas in Aramaic means "huge rock." The Aramaic word for "little stone" is "evna," and Peter was not called "Evna" or "Envas" or anything like that. In Aramaic, Jesus said "You are Peter (Kephas) and upon this rock (kephas) I will build my Church." The metaphor worked well in Aramaic where nouns are neither feminine or masculine, but in Greek, the noun "rock" was feminine, and therefore unsuitable as a name for Peter. So the Aramaic word Kephas was translated to the masculine name Petros when it referred to Peter, and to the feminine noun petra when it referred to the rock. In ancient Koine Greek, petra and petros were total synonyms, unlike modern Attic Greek and unlike Ionic Greek which was about 400 year before Christ.

So you claim that Christ, who is the cornerstone of the church was a cornerstone laid upon the foundation of the rock "Peter"? You are further claiming that Peter is the head of the church and Christ is not the head of the church.




Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;



Eph_5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Christ - not Peter.

Don't bother quoting scripture fundie, it's all completely meaningless for you.

 

[Liminal]

The Bible doesn't even vaguely refer to any rapture of any kind, a complete fantasy based on nothing. But there it is any way.

Are you on your drugs again today. This is not the Rapture thread.

Yeah, but it is the primary tenet of your beliefs.

 

[nuhuh]

He does not. The Pope is from the line of Peter, Jesus' right hand man. This is a very enlightened time for the US to have such a humble servant of God , such a Godly man, right here on our soil. He himself walks in the foot prints of Jesus.

Indeed? You mean the little pebble?
Here is Peter concerning the worship of himself:



Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

To worship any man is idolatry and blasphemy.

"Peter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church ... To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence."

- W. F. Albright, Anchor Bible Commentary

Christ was the ROCK - not Peter. Christ is the founder of the church. Christ is the chief cornerstone of the church and the HEAD of the church. Paul did more to establish churches and followers of Christ than Peter ever did. I will agree with you that Peter was the leader of the apostles.

The Greek word for rock is a matter of debate even reformers like Martin Luther said:

"Why are you searching heavenward in search of my keys? Do you not understand, Jesus said, 'I gave them to Peter. They are indeed the keys of heaven, but they are not found in heaven for I left them on earth. Peter's mouth is my mouth, his tongue is my key case, his keys are my keys. They are an office. They are a power, a command given by God through Christ to all of Christendom for the retaining and remitting of the sins of men.'

- Martin Luther, 1530 AD, after he left the Church

Great, now tell me where that is found in the Bible.

The comment comes from Luther's 1530 treatise, The Keys found in LW 40: 320-376. The quote is on pages 365-366. Luther's underlying assumption is that the keys have indeed been given to Peter, but also to the entire church as well.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Bible doesn't even vaguely refer to any rapture of any kind, a complete fantasy based on nothing. But there it is any way.

As is the case with the bible in its entirety, not just the 'rapture' myth.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Let's talk about the ROCK.


Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2Sa_22:47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
2Sa_22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
2Sa_22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
2Sa_22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;



Psa_18:31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
Psa_18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psa_28:1 A Psalm of David. Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

There are plenty more.

The Greek text is a translation of Jesus' words, which were actually spoken in Aramaic. Aramaic only had one word for rock, kephas (which is why Peter is often called Cephas in the Bible). The word Kephas in Aramaic means "huge rock." The Aramaic word for "little stone" is "evna," and Peter was not called "Evna" or "Envas" or anything like that. In Aramaic, Jesus said "You are Peter (Kephas) and upon this rock (kephas) I will build my Church." The metaphor worked well in Aramaic where nouns are neither feminine or masculine, but in Greek, the noun "rock" was feminine, and therefore unsuitable as a name for Peter. So the Aramaic word Kephas was translated to the masculine name Petros when it referred to Peter, and to the feminine noun petra when it referred to the rock. In ancient Koine Greek, petra and petros were total synonyms, unlike modern Attic Greek and unlike Ionic Greek which was about 400 year before Christ.

Wrong pacer. It was interpreted in the Greek not the Aramaic. Petra and Petros. Peter means Pebble. Jesus Christ is the ROCK. You're trying to twist the truth here - and you are not going to get away with it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rosie, about the Jesuits - here is the story behind it all - save it to your favorites and read it at your leisure -
SmokeScreens by Jack Chick

here is the intro -

Introduction

My deepest appreciation to Dr. Alberto Rivera for his help in awakening us to the dangers facing the believers in Christ.

Jack T. Chick

Greetings in the precious name of our Lord Jesus Christ. What you are going to read in this book is absolutely devastating. The information and the facts we're going to present are going to change your life. Be patient with me and please follow through to the end of the book. You'll never be the same.

Most of you know from studying your Bibles that Satan will build a false superchurch ... the whore of Revelation, chapters 6, 13, 17 and 18. According to Bible prophecy, she will have great political, economic, military, and educational power, and she will persecute and murder the true believers in Christ.

I always used to wonder how Satan would be able to pull this off right under Christians' noses without them being aware of what was happening, and fighting back. But Satan is the master deceiver and I am beginning to see how he has cleverly set up smokescreens to hide the identity of the whore from the majority of Christian believers.

Let me explain what I mean by a smokescreen. In warfare, you have enemy action. When they're moving in, they set up a smokescreen. And the smoke confuses everyone so that you don't know where your enemies are. That's one technique. The other is a fifth column where you have a country that's about to fall. So you send in agents and they wear the people down saying it's hopeless, or saying, no, the enemy isn't really going to attack. And they in a sense, put up their own smokescreens to confuse the issue before the assault comes.

I believe an assault is coming by the whore of Revelation. I believe they are setting up smokescreens, and that there are others within the Christian community that are setting up smokescreens. Now, we believe at Chick Publications, that the whore of Revelation is the Roman Catholic Institution. Our position is not something new. During the Reformation you had men like Martin Luther, John Knox, Calvin, a great number of them, and then the great preachers like Moody, Finney, Spurgeon and so on, they all believed the same thing, that the Vatican was the whore. It wasn't until lately that things have changed.

You see, the Jesuits influenced people and they started setting up smokescreens during our times, through our theological seminaries, and when that smokescreen came up we started seeing the whore of Revelation in a different light. They said, "Oh, no, this is something coming in the future." Or, "That happened 'way back in the past.'" This is done to confuse the Christians. Today, many people believe this. They have been beguiled like I was when I first listened to some of these people. It was a clever smokescreen. I was confused at first, but now I see the whore in her fullness, and it is scary.

I want to show you in this book some of her activities in the past, what she's doing today and what her ultimate goal is for the future. Some will be overwhelmed when they hear this message, but I believe with all my heart that this information must be told. People must be aware of what's going on and how Satan is working to destroy the work of God in these closing hours.

There has been a multi-million dollar campaign made through the media to convince people that I am a bigoted, anti-Catholic, hate literature publisher. And do you know something. They have been very effective in convincing people that this is what I am. The truth is, I love the Catholic people enough to risk my life and my business to reach them with the gospel of Christ to pull them out of the false religious system they're now serving. I know what this system has done in the past and what it is planning for the future. I believe you'll understand when I've finished this message, where I'm coming from. But before we get started, let's go into prayer.

 

[Liminal]

The Bible doesn't even vaguely refer to any rapture of any kind, a complete fantasy based on nothing. But there it is any way.

As is the case with the bible in its entirety, not just the 'rapture' myth.

Sure, just another episode of the Twilight Zone, a figment of some creative author's imagination. Nothing more to it.

 

[nuhuh]

Let's talk about the ROCK.


Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2Sa_22:47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
2Sa_22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
2Sa_22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
2Sa_22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;



Psa_18:31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
Psa_18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psa_28:1 A Psalm of David. Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

There are plenty more.

The Greek text is a translation of Jesus' words, which were actually spoken in Aramaic. Aramaic only had one word for rock, kephas (which is why Peter is often called Cephas in the Bible). The word Kephas in Aramaic means "huge rock." The Aramaic word for "little stone" is "evna," and Peter was not called "Evna" or "Envas" or anything like that. In Aramaic, Jesus said "You are Peter (Kephas) and upon this rock (kephas) I will build my Church." The metaphor worked well in Aramaic where nouns are neither feminine or masculine, but in Greek, the noun "rock" was feminine, and therefore unsuitable as a name for Peter. So the Aramaic word Kephas was translated to the masculine name Petros when it referred to Peter, and to the feminine noun petra when it referred to the rock. In ancient Koine Greek, petra and petros were total synonyms, unlike modern Attic Greek and unlike Ionic Greek which was about 400 year before Christ.

Wrong pacer. It was interpreted in the Greek not the Aramaic. Petra and Petros. Peter means Pebble. Jesus Christ is the ROCK. You're trying to twist the truth here - and you are not going to get away with it.

Are you crazy? I put it out there with exact definitions you cannot create your own interpretations. The definition I put up has been used for almost two thousand years, just how old is your interpretation?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No, you are the one who is crazy if you think you are going to get away with twisting the truth on my watch. It's not happening. Take a hike.

 

[Liminal]

Atheists are just about as smart as fundamentalists.

 

[nuhuh]

No, you are the one who is crazy if you think you are going to get away with twisting the truth on my watch. It's not happening. Take a hike.

So you've got nothing. I'm not surprised.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I'm not going to give you any undue attention or an audience because I know who you are and you've been trying to twist the Scriptures since you showed up here some years ago. There's nothing new going on (other than your latest screen name - how many does that make now? ) and it is getting old. You're up to no good. As usual.

Here is the bottom line. There is no evidence that the Gospels were written originally in any other language but Greek. It was the language used throughout those regions by the people and when the Apostles went out to preach the Gospel they were understood by one and all as that was the language of the day! NOT Aramaic! The Greek translation is the correct one. Petra and Petros. Peter was the small stone - pebble. Jesus Christ is the Rock. End of Discussion. Goodbye now.

 

[nuhuh]

I have been on this board for three months. Before that, I spent 5 years at Sailing Anarchy as "Badlatitude" I have never discussed religion before, anywhere. I do know history and I know the history of my church. I also know that you are a pretender trying to gain recognition and credibility, but you cannot do that without a certifiable history and verifiable facts. I only introduce facts, and if you cannot do the same don't waste my time or anyone else's for that matter.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I do not believe you and you are going on ignore now. Goodbye, nuhuh.

 

[nuhuh]

Fine, I'm not seeing how you offer anyone an intelligent discourse anyway. Coward.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Rosie, make sure and see this link. I'm thinking I'll make a thread out of it. Lots of great information!

SmokeScreens by Jack Chick

Chapter Three: A 20th Century Inquisition
You may say, "Well, that was a long time ago. It's not like that anymore." But has the Vatican really changed? Let's look at her actions during World War II. Many of you have not read our Crusaders book, THE GODFATHERS, or the book, THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS, and, therefore, you don't really know what happened behind the scenes during World War II. So let me give you a brief picture of the conditions.
The Jesuits had secretly prepared World War II, and Hitler's war machine was built and financed by the Vatican to conquer the world for Roman Catholicism, Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were to be the defenders of the faith. They were set up to win and conquer the world, and set up a millennium for the pope. Behind the scenes, the Jesuits controlled the Gestapo. All this is fully documented in THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS, published by Chick Publications.

Read what the press of the Spanish dictator, Franco, published following Hitler's death. It said, "Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It goes on to say, "Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."

Hitler himself stated, "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."

Walter Schellenberg, former chief of Nazi counter-espionage made this statement: "The S.S. organization had been constituted by Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. Their regulations and the Spiritual Exercises prescribed by Ignatius of Loyola were the model Himmler tried to copy exactly. Himmler's title as supreme chief of the S.S. was to be the equivalent of the Jesuits' 'General' and the whole structure was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order."

Franz von Papen, another powerful Nazi, who was instrumental in setting up the concordat between Germany and the Vatican had this to say: "The Third Reich is the first world power which not only acknowledges but also puts into practice the high principles of the papacy." If you are not aware of what a concordat is, a concordat is an agreement between the Vatican and a government. As far as the Vatican is concerned, that government that signed the concordat has now become a part of the government of God, and the Vatican fully intends to stabilize that government, give it divine protection, and give it international protection.

Like Italy, Germany signed a concordat with the Vatican in Rome, 1933.

The Godfathers, by Chick Publications, pg. 20
Signing the concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933 he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Second from left is Franz von Papen, a sinister Nazi and devout Roman Catholic who was Hitler's ace diplomat and the Vatican's agent in helping to bring Hitler to power. Standing at the far right can be seen the little-known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.
Hitler with Reich Bishop Muller and Abbot Schachleiter, surrounded by party bosses; September 1934.

ADOLPH HITLER SAID:

"I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted. That is why I have turned away from Ludendorff and that is why I reject that book by Rosenberg. It was written by a Protestant. It is not a Party book. It was not written by him as a Party man. The Protestants can be left to argue with him ... As a Catholic I never feel comfortable in the Evangelical Church or its structures. That is why I will have great difficulty if I try to regulate affairs of the Protestant churches. The evangelical people or the Protestants will in any case reject me. But you can be sure: I will protect the rights and freedoms of the churches and not let them be touched, so that you need have no fears about the future of the Church."
Hitler was also ready to discuss with the Bishop his views on the Jewish question: "As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service."

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.


The three big defenders of the Roman Catholic faith were Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. All three had concordats with the Vatican. When the Nazi war machine swept through the Balkans on the way to attack Russia, Yugoslavia had become a Nazi occupied country.

 

[nuhuh]

Turning on immortality: Telomerase anti aging trials just one year away Telomere extension turns back aging clock in cultured human cells, study finds
Imagine God's anger when no one has to die any more. Maybe religion will finally die before we will.

 

[Liminal]

Rosie, make sure and see this link. I'm thinking I'll make a thread out of it. Lots of great information!

SmokeScreens by Jack Chick

Chapter Three: A 20th Century Inquisition
You may say, "Well, that was a long time ago. It's not like that anymore." But has the Vatican really changed? Let's look at her actions during World War II. Many of you have not read our Crusaders book, THE GODFATHERS, or the book, THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS, and, therefore, you don't really know what happened behind the scenes during World War II. So let me give you a brief picture of the conditions.
The Jesuits had secretly prepared World War II, and Hitler's war machine was built and financed by the Vatican to conquer the world for Roman Catholicism, Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were to be the defenders of the faith. They were set up to win and conquer the world, and set up a millennium for the pope. Behind the scenes, the Jesuits controlled the Gestapo. All this is fully documented in THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS, published by Chick Publications.

Read what the press of the Spanish dictator, Franco, published following Hitler's death. It said, "Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It goes on to say, "Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."

Hitler himself stated, "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."

Walter Schellenberg, former chief of Nazi counter-espionage made this statement: "The S.S. organization had been constituted by Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. Their regulations and the Spiritual Exercises prescribed by Ignatius of Loyola were the model Himmler tried to copy exactly. Himmler's title as supreme chief of the S.S. was to be the equivalent of the Jesuits' 'General' and the whole structure was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order."

Franz von Papen, another powerful Nazi, who was instrumental in setting up the concordat between Germany and the Vatican had this to say: "The Third Reich is the first world power which not only acknowledges but also puts into practice the high principles of the papacy." If you are not aware of what a concordat is, a concordat is an agreement between the Vatican and a government. As far as the Vatican is concerned, that government that signed the concordat has now become a part of the government of God, and the Vatican fully intends to stabilize that government, give it divine protection, and give it international protection.

Like Italy, Germany signed a concordat with the Vatican in Rome, 1933.

The Godfathers, by Chick Publications, pg. 20
Signing the concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933 he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Second from left is Franz von Papen, a sinister Nazi and devout Roman Catholic who was Hitler's ace diplomat and the Vatican's agent in helping to bring Hitler to power. Standing at the far right can be seen the little-known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.
Hitler with Reich Bishop Muller and Abbot Schachleiter, surrounded by party bosses; September 1934.

ADOLPH HITLER SAID:

"I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted. That is why I have turned away from Ludendorff and that is why I reject that book by Rosenberg. It was written by a Protestant. It is not a Party book. It was not written by him as a Party man. The Protestants can be left to argue with him ... As a Catholic I never feel comfortable in the Evangelical Church or its structures. That is why I will have great difficulty if I try to regulate affairs of the Protestant churches. The evangelical people or the Protestants will in any case reject me. But you can be sure: I will protect the rights and freedoms of the churches and not let them be touched, so that you need have no fears about the future of the Church."
Hitler was also ready to discuss with the Bishop his views on the Jewish question: "As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service."

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.


The three big defenders of the Roman Catholic faith were Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. All three had concordats with the Vatican. When the Nazi war machine swept through the Balkans on the way to attack Russia, Yugoslavia had become a Nazi occupied country.

You have no business calling yourself a Christian, you have no idea what it means.

 

[Meriweather]

So you claim that Christ, who is the cornerstone of the church was a cornerstone laid upon the foundation of the rock "Peter"? You are further claiming that Peter is the head of the church and Christ is not the head of the church.

There is no doubt among Catholics that Christ is the head of the Church. We also have no doubt that Christ assigned one to be leader when decisions that affected the entire Church had to be made. We see Christ assigning Peter the keys. When the Master had to be away, the keys (along with authority which the keys symbolized) was given to a steward. When a question arose outside of Jerusalem that affected the whole Church, Acts records that everyone met with Peter in Jerusalem. After the Temple was destroyed and Peter was killed in Rome, questions/decisions that affected the whole Church were taken to and decided in Rome.

Why Peter. The Gospels record Jesus saying that if a builder wanted a building to stand, he did not build on sand, he built on rock. What was the rock Jesus was seeking to build upon? We see the answer in the story: Jesus was looking for someone who was given a revelation by the Father--and then had courage enough to speak out. Jesus told Peter that no mere man had told Peter Jesus was the Messiah; it had been revealed to Peter by God. Peter believed and had faith in this revelation of God. We hear Jesus telling the Apostles revelation, belief, and faith in God's Word was the rock on which a Church can be built.

Jesus and Peter also pointed to Christ as the cornerstone, the stone the builder's rejected. Jesus did not reject Peter, not even when Peter denied him. We also see the metaphor "capstone" applied to Christ. The capstone is the top stone in an arch--not only the focal point of the entrance, but the one stone that holds the entire arch in place. Without the capstone, not only would the entrance not have a focal point, the entire entrance would collapse and no one would gain entrance.

It would be silly for people to argue that Jesus could only be the cornerstone, or the foundation, or the capstone--that it would be impossible for him to be all. These are all used as metaphors to describe Christ, just as "shepherd" is used as well. Likewise, it is silly for people to argue that Jesus couldn't also use a metaphor to describe Peter, or that he wouldn't appoint a steward on earth when he could no longer be with us physically. Jesus prayed that his disciples might all remain one as he and his Father are one.

Instead, during the Protestant Reformation, people decided the original structure Christ set up--and the Church had followed for fifteen hundred years--could be improved upon. Instead of Christians of that era taking their questions/grievances to Rome and settling them there, some decided to use Enlightenment type politics and division in Church as well.

Catholics decided that Christ as cornerstone, capstone, foundation, and Peter, with his revelation, belief, and faith that is rock solid--not to mention the keys which were bestowed upon him--was the format Christ instituted. Unity (not divisiveness) was Christ's prayer. Therefore instead of going the way of man-made Enlightenment, Catholics decided it was best, when it came to Church, to trust what Christ instituted. That is working out well for us. How is the Enlightenment philosophy working out for the rest of Christianity?

 

[Penelope]

Neither of the two are my pastor.

There are many thefts in that church that are long standing. The theft of gold and art from the Jews.
The excuse of the church was all the rightful owners had passed.
But the church WAITED until they did BEFORE admitting they had it.

Please supply some links to verify this accusation, waiting.