the sun revolves around the earth

[JBeukema]

Newtonian physics were thrown out, guy

Newton was wrong

the late bus will be along shortly

 

[JBeukema]

Way to miss the obvious, btw.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

why is it that you get to decide that NASA and every physics teacher across America is wrong?

I'm sorry I must have missed your credentials that qualify you to completely dismiss basic physics.

 

[JBeukema]

Call NASA and forward my exact argument. They'll tell you it's correct as forwarded

 

[SmarterThanHick]

and yet again I ask what qualifies you to dismiss physics?

do you have any reasoning behind that? even a backwater website to direct me to? Or are you just going to claim physics doesn't apply, that NASA would agree with you, and not support a lick of what you're saying?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

and yet again I ask what qualifies you to dismiss physics?

do you have any reasoning behind that? even a backwater website to direct me to? Or are you just going to claim physics doesn't apply, that NASA would agree with you, and not support a lick of what you're saying?

This was initially set up as a thought experiment, a fact I missed myself, and as such it was an experiment only in positioning and movement, IIRC.

You are correct that basic physics will tell you that the Earth is forced into revolution about the sun. He was exploring the Ptolemaic view of the universe, something I myself do with my 400 level Math students for the fun of it.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

ah I see. I wish he had just said that instead of the 'physics is wrong' response.

thanks for the clarification, Dr. Traveler.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

ah I see. I wish he had just said that instead of the 'physics is wrong' response.

thanks for the clarification, Dr. Traveler.

Its alright. I missed it too. I think I already mentioned that Newtonian Physics and some Vector Calculus implies that the Earth revolves around the sun.

I've found a few videos online that compare celestial motion from a Ptolemaic view to the Copernican view. You can see my favorite here (shamelessly borrowed from Richard W. Pogge, a Professor from The Ohio State University):

Ptolemaic vs. Copernican

I use it to illustrate the level of Mathematical skill Ptolemy's contemporaries must have had to develop a system that could even come close to approximating the given data.

 

[JBeukema]

People who cite Newton as the ultimate authority are fools. He was wrong and he has been proven wrong.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

People who cite Newton as the ultimate authority are fools. He was wrong and he has been proven wrong.

Newton is ok in low speed cases. It isn't until you get up into signifigant percentages of c for your velocity that Newtonian physics breaks down and you have to use relativity.

Take it easy on us non-physicists. Newton's enough for most of what I need

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I've found a few videos online that compare celestial motion from a Ptolemaic view to the Copernican view. You can see my favorite here (shamelessly borrowed from Richard W. Pogge, a Professor from The Ohio State University):

Ptolemaic vs. Copernican

interesting vid

People who cite Newton as the ultimate authority are fools. He was wrong and he has been proven wrong.

yeah, cept no one cited Newton as the ultimate authority. Newton's approximations are correct, as Dr. Traveler stated, for low speed objects. The relativity corrections of his work still show that forces must be equal and opposite though.

Take it easy on us non-physicists. Newton's enough for most of what I need

He's a non-physicist himself. Sounds like someone who dabbled in high school, read something online about relativity that made him realize Newton wasn't 100% correct, and instead of understand the reasons behind it, tried to demonstrate his "knowledge" with this little exercise. If he claims he has a PhD (heck, even majored in physics in college), I'd be surprised.

 

[Digibomber]

This is all Greek to me!

 

[Old Rocks]

Some interesting statistics:

Only 47 percent of Americans can correctly answer the question, "How long does it take for the earth to travel around the sun one time?"

20 percent believe the sun rotates around the Earth.

20 percent think the Earth circles the sun once a day.

More than 90% CAN'T explain what a molecule is.

More than 75% have no clue what thins the ozone layer.

Only 2% understand what a "scientific theory" is.

64% have no idea what the "scientific method" is or the meaning of "scientific inquiry".

40% of Americans feel confident about the leaders in the scientific and medical communities. Less than 12% feel they are knowledgeable about science.

Less than 40% believe in the science of evolution (more than 80% in all other industrialized nation).

46% said God created man the way he is now less than 10,000 years ago. Statistic unchanged since 1982.

63% believe antibiotics kill viruses.

87% of scientists state that evolution is the result of natural processes with just 32 percent public agreement.

the near consensus among scientists about global warming is not mirrored in the general public. While 84% of scientists say the earth is getting warmer because of human activity such as burning fossil fuels, just 49% of the public agrees.

Scientists are the third most respected profession (after the military and teachers) (funny – science gives the military weapons and tells teachers what to say, they good ones anyway)

77% of scientists agreed with the claim that government scientists were not allowed to report research findings that conflicted with the Bush administration’s point of view.

By this time, everyone knows that less than 6% of scientists identify themselves as Republican

Oh, that home schooling.

And which Liberal rag did this come from?

Care to point out where it is not correct? Or are you just into bald, unsupported statements when the truth is pointed out.

 

[Old Rocks]

The truly upsetting thing: The people who did this "poll" don't even know scientific language well enough to be whining about other people.

My, my. Sweet little Kitten, you are the last one that should fault someone else for lack of scientific knowledge.

 

[code1211]

Some interesting statistics:

Only 47 percent of Americans can correctly answer the question, "How long does it take for the earth to travel around the sun one time?"

20 percent believe the sun rotates around the Earth.

20 percent think the Earth circles the sun once a day.

More than 90% CAN'T explain what a molecule is.

More than 75% have no clue what thins the ozone layer.

Only 2% understand what a "scientific theory" is.

64% have no idea what the "scientific method" is or the meaning of "scientific inquiry".

40% of Americans feel confident about the leaders in the scientific and medical communities. Less than 12% feel they are knowledgeable about science.

Less than 40% believe in the science of evolution (more than 80% in all other industrialized nation).

46% said God created man the way he is now less than 10,000 years ago. Statistic unchanged since 1982.

63% believe antibiotics kill viruses.

87% of scientists state that evolution is the result of natural processes with just 32 percent public agreement.

the near consensus among scientists about global warming is not mirrored in the general public. While 84% of scientists say the earth is getting warmer because of human activity such as burning fossil fuels, just 49% of the public agrees.

Scientists are the third most respected profession (after the military and teachers) (funny – science gives the military weapons and tells teachers what to say, they good ones anyway)

77% of scientists agreed with the claim that government scientists were not allowed to report research findings that conflicted with the Bush administration’s point of view.

By this time, everyone knows that less than 6% of scientists identify themselves as Republican

Oh, that home schooling.

And which Liberal rag did this come from?

Care to point out where it is not correct? Or are you just into bald, unsupported statements when the truth is pointed out.

Oh, come now. Aren't you the one who dismisses ar accepts everything based on the source? Since the conclusions are extremely biased, my conclusion is that the source that puts them forth is biased.

That is why I asked.

Disproving opinions is not possible. An opinion by definition has little to do with actuality. It is only what a person thinks. Whatever words were used to ask a question often have more impact on the answer than does the intent of the question or the sought knowledge of the tested.

"Did you stop beating your wife? Answer yes or no."

In my opinion.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

He's a non-physicist himself. Sounds like someone who dabbled in high school, read something online about relativity that made him realize Newton wasn't 100% correct, and instead of understand the reasons behind it, tried to demonstrate his "knowledge" with this little exercise. If he claims he has a PhD (heck, even majored in physics in college), I'd be surprised.

I take his immediate change from quickly responding to every post in this thread with clear contention to completely shutting up altogether indicates that I hit the nail on the head...

 

[JBeukema]

You're still here flaming like an idiot?

 

[rdean]

And which Liberal rag did this come from?

Care to point out where it is not correct? Or are you just into bald, unsupported statements when the truth is pointed out.

Oh, come now. Aren't you the one who dismisses ar accepts everything based on the source? Since the conclusions are extremely biased, my conclusion is that the source that puts them forth is biased.

That is why I asked.

Disproving opinions is not possible. An opinion by definition has little to do with actuality. It is only what a person thinks. Whatever words were used to ask a question often have more impact on the answer than does the intent of the question or the sought knowledge of the tested.

"Did you stop beating your wife? Answer yes or no."

In my opinion.

When I posted that list, most of it came from the Beltway Boys from the Fox website. Didn't keep a link. I just thought it was interesting. Besides, I thought they were talking about the group of people who don't know Medicare is a government run program, want to "teach the controversy", believe that Fascism, Socialism and Communism are synonyms and is just something "bad" but not what. The same group that believes Noah's Ark is a historical event and the Flintstones a documentary.

 

[JBeukema]

that you haven't been able to track down your source yet is interesting

 

[rdean]

that you haven't been able to track down your source yet is interesting

I haven't bothered to look. Should I?

Ok, you made me go look it up. Here are links to most of it. All of them were more than I could make up. If you have questions on one, highlight it, copy, paste into search, and you can find it yourself. Is it still "interesting"?

http://people-press.org/report/528/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/05/24/MN67867.DTL