The "social contract" that doesn't exist

[Indeependent]

Every government has been forced down someone's throat, including ours.

So how localized do you want your Libertarian society?
Your Town? City? County? State?

I don't want government of any shape, form or size.

So what do you do to attain such a goal?

 

[bripat9643]

So how localized do you want your Libertarian society?
Your Town? City? County? State?

I don't want government of any shape, form or size.

go live were there are people who agree with you then.

YOU will NEVER get what you want here.

fuck off

Why don't you go live in Cuba where people agree with you?

We'll see who gets what.

Apparently you hate democracy where people get to vote on what they want.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

In the past, Republicans thought that the market ought to set wages, and that a combination of government devices—including the earned-income tax credit, housing subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid, and other social-welfare programs—could fill in the gaps to make that social contract work, while also trying to remove disincentives from work via welfare reform.

The Moral and Economic Case for Raising the Minimum Wage

Three points to make here:

• How is it possible that the left is incapable of comprehending that if the minimum wage for flipping a burger goes up 20%, the cost of the burger goes up 20%, which means the cost of shipping that burger to each store goes up 20%, which means the cost of electricity goes up 20%, which means the minimum wage worker is no further ahead than they were before the minimum wage went up 20%? I'm literally astounded by the left's ignorant belief that every action occurs in a vacuum. This is basic stuff that even small children understand.
  
  
• The solution to the problem is pretty damn simple. Stop subsidizing the failure of the individual. If they can't put food on their table, there are 6 mechanisms of safety nets to ensure food gets there that do not include government. If 6 safety nets are not enough, well, then you were destined to go hungry. Just accept it and move on (and we all know that will NEVER happen with 6 safety nets, but that won't stop the liberals on USMB from making outrageous scenario's where those safety nets aren't enough).
  
  
• Once again we see the left literally make stuff up out of thin air. What "social contract"?!? I've never seen one. And I sure as hell never signed one.

Really now. Maybe you just haven't been paying attention for the last 50 or 60 years? You certainly never took political science or philosophy at the community college you went to for a couple of years....


Social Contract Theory
Social Contract Theory*[Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
Social contract theory, nearly as old as philosophy itself, is the view that persons’ moral and/or political obligations are dependent upon a contract or agreement among them to form the society in which they live. Socrates uses something quite like a social contract argument to explain to Crito why he must remain in prison and accept the death penalty. However, social contract theory is rightly associated with modern moral and political theory and is given its first full exposition and defense by Thomas Hobbes.

After Hobbes, John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau are the best known proponents of this enormously influential theory, which has been one of the most dominant theories within moral and political theory throughout the history of the modern West. In the twentieth century, moral and political theory regained philosophical momentum as a result of John Rawls’ Kantian version of social contract theory, and was followed by new analyses of the subject by David Gauthier and others.

More recently, philosophers from different perspectives have offered new criticisms of social contract theory. In particular, feminists and race-conscious philosophers have argued that social contract theory is at least an incomplete picture of our moral and political lives, and may in fact camouflage some of the ways in which the contract is itself parasitical upon the subjugations of classes of persons.

The myth of the social contract is the greatest con ever perpetrated on the human race. The idea that a few wealthy men 250 years ago created some document that obligates me in any way is utterly preposterous.

A valid contract has to be agreed to explicitly by all the parties involved. Your parents can't sign a contract that is binding on you in any way. This is basic legal theory, and it's based on indisputable logic. Allowing others to bind you to the terms of some contract is the road to tyranny, but that's precisely why libturds and every other form of statist is always waxing eloquently about the mythical "social contract."

The bottom line is that if you didn't personally and explicitly agree to it, you aren't bound by it.

Yeah, you're right. Those guys 250 years ago didn't create it:

Plato on the social contract

The first known exposition of social contract theory was made by Plato in his short dialogue Crito.[wp] In the dialogue, Socrates is jailed and about to be executed, but when offered a chance to be sprung from jail, refuses it by saying, essentially, "I made my bed and now I have to lie in it."

The dialogue contains this description of social contract theory, in which Socrates assumes the voice of "the Laws":

“”We further proclaim and give the right to every Athenian, that if he does not like us when he has come of age and has seen the ways of the city, and made our acquaintance, he may go where he pleases and take his goods with him; and none of us laws will forbid him or interfere with him. Any of you who does not like us and the city, and who wants to go to a colony or to any other city, may go where he likes, and take his goods with him. But he who has experience of the manner in which we order justice and administer the State, and still remains, has entered into an implied contract that he will do as we command him.

 

[Katzndogz]

The day of the minimum wage might be over. It's making it's last gasp. Obviously the wage can't keep going up or entire swaths of the public will be basically unemployable forever.

 

[bripat9643]

Really now. Maybe you just haven't been paying attention for the last 50 or 60 years? You certainly never took political science or philosophy at the community college you went to for a couple of years....


Social Contract Theory
Social Contract Theory*[Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
Social contract theory, nearly as old as philosophy itself, is the view that persons’ moral and/or political obligations are dependent upon a contract or agreement among them to form the society in which they live. Socrates uses something quite like a social contract argument to explain to Crito why he must remain in prison and accept the death penalty. However, social contract theory is rightly associated with modern moral and political theory and is given its first full exposition and defense by Thomas Hobbes.

After Hobbes, John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau are the best known proponents of this enormously influential theory, which has been one of the most dominant theories within moral and political theory throughout the history of the modern West. In the twentieth century, moral and political theory regained philosophical momentum as a result of John Rawls’ Kantian version of social contract theory, and was followed by new analyses of the subject by David Gauthier and others.

More recently, philosophers from different perspectives have offered new criticisms of social contract theory. In particular, feminists and race-conscious philosophers have argued that social contract theory is at least an incomplete picture of our moral and political lives, and may in fact camouflage some of the ways in which the contract is itself parasitical upon the subjugations of classes of persons.

The myth of the social contract is the greatest con ever perpetrated on the human race. The idea that a few wealthy men 250 years ago created some document that obligates me in any way is utterly preposterous.

A valid contract has to be agreed to explicitly by all the parties involved. Your parents can't sign a contract that is binding on you in any way. This is basic legal theory, and it's based on indisputable logic. Allowing others to bind you to the terms of some contract is the road to tyranny, but that's precisely why libturds and every other form of statist is always waxing eloquently about the mythical "social contract."

The bottom line is that if you didn't personally and explicitly agree to it, you aren't bound by it.

Yeah, you're right. Those guys 250 years ago didn't create it:

Plato on the social contract

The first known exposition of social contract theory was made by Plato in his short dialogue Crito.[wp] In the dialogue, Socrates is jailed and about to be executed, but when offered a chance to be sprung from jail, refuses it by saying, essentially, "I made my bed and now I have to lie in it."

The dialogue contains this description of social contract theory, in which Socrates assumes the voice of "the Laws":

“”We further proclaim and give the right to every Athenian, that if he does not like us when he has come of age and has seen the ways of the city, and made our acquaintance, he may go where he pleases and take his goods with him; and none of us laws will forbid him or interfere with him. Any of you who does not like us and the city, and who wants to go to a colony or to any other city, may go where he likes, and take his goods with him. But he who has experience of the manner in which we order justice and administer the State, and still remains, has entered into an implied contract that he will do as we command him.

How does that prove that the social contract isn't a myth?

When did I agree to this so-called "contract?"

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Every government has been forced down someone's throat, including ours.

So how localized do you want your Libertarian society?
Your Town? City? County? State?

I don't want government of any shape, form or size.

Good, then there are many countries in Africa who are eager to grant you citizenship.
Don't mind the bullets flying. Civil wars are commonplace, as many as 15-20 going on at one time.

 

[bripat9643]

So how localized do you want your Libertarian society?
Your Town? City? County? State?

I don't want government of any shape, form or size.

Good, then there are many countries in Africa who are eager to grant you citizenship.
Don't mind the bullets flying. Civil wars are commonplace, as many as 15-20 going on at one time.

What is your imbecile babbling supposed to prove? What does the fact that there are plenty of shitty places in the world to live prove? How does that prove the existence of some mythical contract I supposedly agreed to?

 

[rdean]

In the past, Republicans thought that the market ought to set wages, and that a combination of government devices—including the earned-income tax credit, housing subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid, and other social-welfare programs—could fill in the gaps to make that social contract work, while also trying to remove disincentives from work via welfare reform.

The Moral and Economic Case for Raising the Minimum Wage

Three points to make here:

• How is it possible that the left is incapable of comprehending that if the minimum wage for flipping a burger goes up 20%, the cost of the burger goes up 20%, which means the cost of shipping that burger to each store goes up 20%, which means the cost of electricity goes up 20%, which means the minimum wage worker is no further ahead than they were before the minimum wage went up 20%? I'm literally astounded by the left's ignorant belief that every action occurs in a vacuum. This is basic stuff that even small children understand.
  
  
• The solution to the problem is pretty damn simple. Stop subsidizing the failure of the individual. If they can't put food on their table, there are 6 mechanisms of safety nets to ensure food gets there that do not include government. If 6 safety nets are not enough, well, then you were destined to go hungry. Just accept it and move on (and we all know that will NEVER happen with 6 safety nets, but that won't stop the liberals on USMB from making outrageous scenario's where those safety nets aren't enough).
  
  
• Once again we see the left literally make stuff up out of thin air. What "social contract"?!? I've never seen one. And I sure as hell never signed one.

I am not in favor of minimum wage.
A burger flipper gets 20% more for flipping, let's say, 100+, or even 200+ burgers an hour.
How do you, with any so-called amount of intelligence, figure that raising the price of a burger 20% will absolutely equate the new wage?

The math is completely infantile.

Like Christian based science, this is Christians based math. Only they aren't real Christians.

 

[Soupnazi630]

so you think cheating in elections is warrented because your too stupid to figure out how to leave a country you hate?

As I said before, you and your libturd amigos are the ones who cheat.

Hating the government and hating the country are two separate things, asshole.

Anyone who loves the government is nothing but a servile bootlicking authoritarian toady.

I gave proof


where is your proof of your idiot claim?

GO get a SCOTUS decision from less than a year ago to prove your not just an idiot partisan liar

You did not give proof of ON GOING cheating you gave proof of one decision.

 

[Soupnazi630]

In the past, Republicans thought that the market ought to set wages, and that a combination of government devices—including the earned-income tax credit, housing subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid, and other social-welfare programs—could fill in the gaps to make that social contract work, while also trying to remove disincentives from work via welfare reform.

The Moral and Economic Case for Raising the Minimum Wage

Three points to make here:

• How is it possible that the left is incapable of comprehending that if the minimum wage for flipping a burger goes up 20%, the cost of the burger goes up 20%, which means the cost of shipping that burger to each store goes up 20%, which means the cost of electricity goes up 20%, which means the minimum wage worker is no further ahead than they were before the minimum wage went up 20%? I'm literally astounded by the left's ignorant belief that every action occurs in a vacuum. This is basic stuff that even small children understand.
  
  
• The solution to the problem is pretty damn simple. Stop subsidizing the failure of the individual. If they can't put food on their table, there are 6 mechanisms of safety nets to ensure food gets there that do not include government. If 6 safety nets are not enough, well, then you were destined to go hungry. Just accept it and move on (and we all know that will NEVER happen with 6 safety nets, but that won't stop the liberals on USMB from making outrageous scenario's where those safety nets aren't enough).
  
  
• Once again we see the left literally make stuff up out of thin air. What "social contract"?!? I've never seen one. And I sure as hell never signed one.

I am not in favor of minimum wage.
A burger flipper gets 20% more for flipping, let's say, 100+, or even 200+ burgers an hour.
How do you, with any so-called amount of intelligence, figure that raising the price of a burger 20% will absolutely equate the new wage?

The math is completely infantile.

Like Christian based science, this is Christians based math. Only they aren't real Christians.

If the math is wrong then it should be very easy for you to demonstrate why.

Labeling it with the term christian does not disprove anything.

Christian math is your math and my math. Math is universal truth and christians do not have their own version.

 

[SnowTiger]

Social contract theory is actually a quite accurate description of society.

It's simple- we are born into it. It is what makes us decide to surrender certain rights to gain protections of government. (Basic minimal- we agree not to kill anyone so that we ourselves may not be killed)

The contract works both ways, between the government and citizen.

It's actually, the way it was intended by Rousseau, a very small-government philosophy. When a government is formed, people decide which powers they will give the government. The government will naturally want to expand and the social contract prevents this unless the expansion is the direct will of the people.

Because if a government violates the contract, it's considered illegitimate and should be dismantled/altered.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't want government of any shape, form or size.

Good, then there are many countries in Africa who are eager to grant you citizenship.
Don't mind the bullets flying. Civil wars are commonplace, as many as 15-20 going on at one time.

What is your imbecile babbling supposed to prove? What does the fact that there are plenty of shitty places in the world to live prove? How does that prove the existence of some mythical contract I supposedly agreed to?

Do you have the time to understand and vote on every issue that ever comes up?
Suppose all levels of Civil governing ended, would you actually be able to attend to EVERY matter that came up that would even remotely affect you?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

I don't want government of any shape, form or size.

Good, then there are many countries in Africa who are eager to grant you citizenship.
Don't mind the bullets flying. Civil wars are commonplace, as many as 15-20 going on at one time.

What is your imbecile babbling supposed to prove? What does the fact that there are plenty of shitty places in the world to live prove? How does that prove the existence of some mythical contract I supposedly agreed to?

I responded to your comment that you are an anarchist.

The Socratic Method is the way in which law schools teach their students to become lawyers in this country, and Socrates first introduced the concept of the social contract.

I suggest you at least get off your fat lazy ass and Google the social compact/contract and then you may not look so fucking stupid on this thread.....and all the others, too.

 

[Truthmatters]

Bri pat is sooooooooo stupid he is on record saying things were better for man in the days of kings and queens.

he is as dumb as a box of round rocks

 

[Truthmatters]

As I said before, you and your libturd amigos are the ones who cheat.

Hating the government and hating the country are two separate things, asshole.

Anyone who loves the government is nothing but a servile bootlicking authoritarian toady.

I gave proof


where is your proof of your idiot claim?

GO get a SCOTUS decision from less than a year ago to prove your not just an idiot partisan liar

You did not give proof of ON GOING cheating you gave proof of one decision.

Nope you are dead wrong.


go read the case they turned down.

If you bothered to actually understand that SCOTUS case you would se that the case is filled to the brim with documentation of year after year cheating by the republican party.



saying that is not true s merely a fucking idiots lie

 

[Truthmatters]

At Supreme Court, no reprieve for GOP in voting rights consent decree - CSMonitor.com


DNC lawyers argued that the high court should allow the consent decree to remain in place. Evidence presented during the 2008 and 2009 litigation over the decree showed that the order is still needed today, they said.

“That evidence includes proof that the RNC violated the Decree in 1990 and in 2004, when it created voter challenge lists that targeted minority voters; that between 1997 and 2008, Republican candidates and party organizations had engaged in separate voter suppression activities in various states, including Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin; and that the racially polarized voting that influenced the RNC in the 1980s persists today,” Angelo Genova wrote in his brief to the court.

“This substantial evidence stands in stark contrast to the RNC’s proffered ‘evidence,’ “ Mr. Genova added. He said the Republicans had made a “preposterous claim that because President Obama, Attorney General [Eric] Holder, and former RNC leaders Michael Steele and Boyd Rutherford are African-American, the RNC no longer has any incentive to suppress minority votes in violation of the terms of the Consent Decree.”

read you clown

 

[Truthmatters]

that is just a snippet of the cases involved in this case.


yet your whole right pretends this court case is not real.

why?

 

[kaz]

How do you, with any so-called amount of intelligence, figure that raising the price of a burger 20% will absolutely equate the new wage?

The math is completely infantile.

One of several businesses that I've owned is a restaurant. You're right in the part that a 20% increase in wages doesn't equate to excactly a 20% price increase. However, to call it infantile goes way too far.

The two biggest costs in a restaurant by far are food and labor. Rottweiler's right that the cost of everything else you buy will go up because they all have to add labor to their prices. Unemployment will go up as it always does for minimum wage increases and your customers as a whole will have less to spend. So it does approach 20% even though you're right you can't say it would be exactly that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The "social contract" that does exist

social contract or social compact
1. (Philosophy) (in the theories of Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, and others) an agreement, entered into by individuals, that results in the formation of the state or of organized society, the prime motive being the desire for protection, which entails the surrender of some or all personal liberties

Social contract theory - definition of Social contract theory by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The myth of the social contract is the greatest con ever perpetrated on the human race. The idea that a few wealthy men 250 years ago created some document that obligates me in any way is utterly preposterous.

A valid contract has to be agreed to explicitly by all the parties involved. Your parents can't sign a contract that is binding on you in any way. This is basic legal theory, and it's based on indisputable logic. Allowing others to bind you to the terms of some contract is the road to tyranny, but that's precisely why libturds and every other form of statist is always waxing eloquently about the mythical "social contract."

The bottom line is that if you didn't personally and explicitly agree to it, you aren't bound by it.

Yeah, you're right. Those guys 250 years ago didn't create it:

Plato on the social contract

The first known exposition of social contract theory was made by Plato in his short dialogue Crito.[wp] In the dialogue, Socrates is jailed and about to be executed, but when offered a chance to be sprung from jail, refuses it by saying, essentially, "I made my bed and now I have to lie in it."

The dialogue contains this description of social contract theory, in which Socrates assumes the voice of "the Laws":

“”We further proclaim and give the right to every Athenian, that if he does not like us when he has come of age and has seen the ways of the city, and made our acquaintance, he may go where he pleases and take his goods with him; and none of us laws will forbid him or interfere with him. Any of you who does not like us and the city, and who wants to go to a colony or to any other city, may go where he likes, and take his goods with him. But he who has experience of the manner in which we order justice and administer the State, and still remains, has entered into an implied contract that he will do as we command him.

How does that prove that the social contract isn't a myth?

When did I agree to this so-called "contract?"

By one theory, each time you obey a law, each time you vote, when you exercise you right to rant against the government and when you safely leave you home and arrive at your destination aided by traffic laws, DOT rules and controls agreed upon by civilized citizens (speed limits, stop signs and other rules of the road).

Since there are a very few (albeit many loud) Libertarians, and they have been around as a political party since the 1970's and never won a national election, why do you think 'your' ideas will ever win the battle of ideas. Our system of governance has been around for more than two centuries.

What makes you think you know better than the generations of Americans who preceded you? Nothing you have ever posted suggests you're well educated or intelligent enough to make an argument credible for anyone but the few others like you to believe.

Prove me wrong.