The Sanctity of Marriage in the Modern Age

CivilLiberty

Active Member
Nov 13, 2004
821
50
28
Hollywood
Defining the Roll of the Government in the Marriage Contract

Freedom. A word that America was built on. But as a word, it's meaning has a wide range of interpretations. Interpretations that are today dividing America.

One of the most divisive, as we saw in the last election, relates to the "sanctity" of marriage in our culture. To understand this perception, we need to look at the history of marriage as an institution.

If prostitution is the oldest profession, it's likely that marriage is the oldest contract. Indeed in it's origins, marriage had little to do with love or religion. The oldest history of marriage dates to 2350 B.C., and it original intention was to "bind" a woman to a man. This essentially made the woman the "property" of the man, to "guarantee" that the man's heirs where biologically his.

As the Catholic church became a dominant political and religious force in Europe, they eventually controlled the institution by mandating the blessings of a priest for a marriage to be legal.

Marriage as a "sacrament" was widely accepted in the church by the 8th century, however the "sacramental" nature of marriage was not written into Canon law until 1563.

The biggest changes in marriage emerged in the last 100 years or so. Granting women the right to vote was the first step in granting women equal rights. More recently, "no-fault" divorce laws, and the legal concept of marital rape, elevated the status of women in the marriage relationship to equality with the man. As opposed to becoming "the property" of the man, marriage is now the legal union of a man and a woman, with a number of legal privileges.

The Supreme Court's ruling in Loving vs. Virginia dismissed the Anti-Miscegenation laws in the 16 states that had them, further defining the freedom to marry whomever one wishes.

Historically, gay marriage is also not a new concept. Roman Emperor Nero twice married men. A few hundred years later the Roman outlawed homosexual marriages in 342 AD. Nevertheless, there are instances of gay marriage thereafter, such as the 13th century Greek Orthodox Church's “Order for Solemnisation of Same Sex Union".


A Sensible Solution to America's Division Over Same-Sex Marriage

Marriage as a holy, religious ceremony, belongs in the church, to be defined as appropriate by each individual religious body according to the dictates of their beliefs.

The government should have no role in the "sanctity" of these religious bondings.

However, in our modern society, there are logistical and legal ramifications relating to couples, particularly those that are raising families. To mitigate the "legality" (not "sanctity") of a couple/family, here the government can issue/oversee the legal aspects of the "contract."

For the purposes of discussion, one could call the "legal" portion the "civil union", keeping the term "marriage" to apply only to any particular religion, or religious ceremony.

With the understanding that legal means be available to all person in a non discriminatory manner, then any couple of any composition could have access to the legal civil union contract for forming a legal pair bond.

Ultimately "marriage" as a religious institution should free itself from the bounds of governmental interference, and exist only as the religious sanctity observed by the couple and their god.

Our modern society - a society of laws - dictates that each and every person be afford the equal protection and treatment of the laws. The "legal contract" nature of a union of two persons as a legal entity must therefore be afforded to all, regardless of their choice of spouse.


-Andrew Somers
 
You seek government legitimization of homosexuality. The majority of the American electorate have emphatically stated that they do not want this.

This is a nation of laws - true - but those laws are (ostensibly) written by the duly elected representatives of the people.
 
I think if they droped the word marriage, and used civil unions or another word that implies that, they would get allot further.
 
wolvie20m said:
I think if they droped the word marriage, and used civil unions or another word that implies that, they would get allot further.



That remains to be seen, I guess. I think that all but the most rabid of the gay lobby would be happy with civil unions, and advanced the "gay marriage" thing in much the same way a seller asks one price - knowing that he'll negotiate down to another.

In any case, though, this issue needs to be addressed by the voters - as per the design of our Constitution - rather than through the tyranny of the courts.
 
musicman said:
That remains to be seen, I guess. I think that all but the most rabid of the gay lobby would be happy with civil unions, and advanced the "gay marriage" thing in much the same way a seller asks one price - knowing that he'll negotiate down to another.

In any case, though, this issue needs to be addressed by the voters - as per the design of our Constitution - rather than through the tyranny of the courts.
I don't know if they droped the term marrige I don't think this should be settled in either a voting center or courts. I view it legal not moral but legal. Hey it's 2 consenting adults. I'm not doing it and I don't condone it but it's not really my business to say who can be together and who can't.
 
wolvie20m said:
I don't know if they droped the term marrige I don't think this should be settled in either a voting center or courts. I view it legal not moral but legal. Hey it's 2 consenting adults. I'm not doing it and I don't condone it but it's not really my business to say who can be together and who can't.



But we are, after all, talking about conferring a right where no right now exists. Who, ultimately, should get to decide that - the courts, or the voters?
 
wolvie20m said:
Congress. If they want to change laws well thats where I'd go.



That's a step in the right direction, in my opinion. At least there is some accountability to the voters that way, as opposed to the courts, which often act as unelected tyrants and unbidden social engineers.
 
Great post. Here's my problem - it's fairly difficult to argue that there is a "sanctity" to marriage when a good percentage (some estimates go up to 50%) of marriages end in divorce. We can't really say we hold marriage as "sacred" unless we ban divorce. The folks who are opposed to gay marriage/civil unions hide behind the "sanctity" of marriage to mask their homophobia.

acludem
 
acludem said:
Great post. Here's my problem - it's fairly difficult to argue that there is a "sanctity" to marriage when a good percentage (some estimates go up to 50%) of marriages end in divorce. We can't really say we hold marriage as "sacred" unless we ban divorce. The folks who are opposed to gay marriage/civil unions hide behind the "sanctity" of marriage to mask their homophobia.

acludem

Hey I am all for stricter divorce laws. In fact everyone arguing for the sanctity of marriage would want the stricter divorce laws. Your psuedo psychological analysis aside I think you have major problems dealing with the facts. Especially if you insist on quoting that 50% of marriages end in divorce after the multiple page thread on that exact subject has been discussed debated and disproved.
 
"Homophobia" is a made-up word, whose only purpose for existing is to advance a pro-homosexual agenda. Any honest attempt to make sense out of combining the prefix "homo" and the word "phobia" would yield a bizarre definition like, "neurotic, irrational fear of human beings". In other words, it's meaningless - that's why it's not really a word.

The hoped-for result of this bastardization of the English language is that anyone who dares to find homosexuality objectionable is thought to be somehow "phobic". Sorry, acludem - I ain't buying it.


"What is necessary is to rectify names. If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things." - Confucius


"Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
 
musicman said:
"Homophobia" is a made-up word, whose only purpose for existing is to advance a pro-homosexual agenda. Any honest attempt to make sense out of combining the prefix "homo" and the word "phobia" would yield a bizarre definition like, "neurotic, irrational fear of human beings". In other words, it's meaningless - that's why it's not really a word.

The hoped-for result of this bastardization of the English language is that anyone who dares to find homosexuality objectionable is thought to be somehow "phobic". Sorry, acludem - I ain't buying it.


"What is necessary is to rectify names. If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things." - Confucius


"Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
Damn never looked at it like that.... Although I think the people are out ot get me. :tinfoil:
 
wolvie20m said:
Damn never looked at it like that.... Although I think the people are out ot get me. :tinfoil:



LOL! I used to worry about that, too - until I found this comforting quote:

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody's NOT out to get you!"
 
wolvie20m said:
I don't believe Gays have the right to marry, but I do say they can be recognized as a legal couple. So am I a Homophobe?

Thats the problem here wolvie. Gays do have the right to marry. They have the same right as anyone else. Everyone is allowed to marry anyone who:

1)is of legal marriage age
2)is not married to someone else
3)is not closely related. IE Siblings, cousins
4)is a member of the opposite sex.

These are the same standards for everyone regardless of whether you are gay, straight, or asexual. In fact several months ago there were gays, who while attempting to prove why gay marriage should be allowed, ironically proved they already have the same rights, when a gay man married a lesbian for political purposes.

Words mean something. Marriage has a very specific definition dispite attempts to change it. The problem is if you cant change reality. You can call a circle a square, but its still going to be a circle.

Marriage is a contractual/covenant arrangement made privately and recognize publically. There is only one reason that government publically recognizes marriage to begin with. Its a public policy reason. Its through marriage that the human species procreates. Its through marriage that health and happiness are the strongest. Marriages benefit society.

However, there is no such public policy argument in favor of gay unions at all. There is no reason to recognize it because it discourages the perpetuation of the human race. In addition is very unhealthy lifestyle. Why on earth would any society want to encourage unhealthy lifestyles? Why should the government encourage bad public policies becuase there are a number of people who are insecure with their sexual choice? There is no logical reason to.

Of course the left in this country has decided that pursing policies that are beneficial to society make the 90% of us who support the protection of the family as "homophobic" and part of the extreme right.
 
Avatar4321 said:
However, there is no such public policy argument in favor of gay unions at all. There is no reason to recognize it because it discourages the perpetuation of the human race. In addition is very unhealthy lifestyle. Why on earth would any society want to encourage unhealthy lifestyles? Why should the government encourage bad public policies becuase there are a number of people who are insecure with their sexual choice? There is no logical reason to.
Though I'm half and half on the issue. I don't practice being gay, nor do I condone it. So if it doesn't affect your rights why not allow it. What's un healthy about it?
 
wolvie20m said:
Though I'm half and half on the issue. I don't practice being gay, nor do I condone it. So if it doesn't affect your rights why not allow it. What's un healthy about it?



They roll around in feces. They have demonstrated a depraved indifference to public safety. They are ten times more likely, relative to their population numbers, to molest children. I think it affects the hell out of my rights, and I can't see one healthy thing about it.
 
Why ruin a good relationship with some hollow vows and a ring? Cause the devorce lawyers need new Mercedes and Jags every few years.

How many Heterosexuals are involved in relationships that are neither sane, nor civil. So we can't call all "marriages" civil relationships. It wouldn't be kosher for the "truth in advertising" clause.

Getting back on track...

I find many gays to be too liberal for me on numerous issues. Therefore, they are not going to get tears from me when they can't get what they want. BUT, this is not to say I am homophobic, or anti gay. I am not. Also, I can't say that gay relationships can't be as loving, and good, as any loving and good hetero relationships. When too people dig each other and make each other happy, that is their business.

((one "hetero" relationship/marriage that makes mockery out of marriage is the wedding of Donald Trump to that Mariana GIRL.. First, I think he is an ass that would step on anyone to get what he wants. She is just another notch/crotch in his belt. Evidently she likes it that way.))

I would be less inclined to vote against "gay marriage" if the gays were not so aggressive toward screwing over the Boy Scouts of America. What the BSA does with it's group should be respected by the gay community. What the BSA does as far as helping to guide young boys into manhood is more important to me than what/who they exclude. If the gay community feels that they have something to offer, they can create their own group and solicit membership.
 
acludem said:
Great post. Here's my problem - it's fairly difficult to argue that there is a "sanctity" to marriage when a good percentage (some estimates go up to 50%) of marriages end in divorce. We can't really say we hold marriage as "sacred" unless we ban divorce. The folks who are opposed to gay marriage/civil unions hide behind the "sanctity" of marriage to mask their homophobia.

acludem


Divorce *IS* banned in the Catholic church. And again, that's a religious issue.

At the civil level, there is no "sanctity" - only law.


Andy Somers
 
CivilLiberty said:
Divorce *IS* banned in the Catholic church. And again, that's a religious issue.

At the civil level, there is no "sanctity" - only law.


Andy Somers



And the writing of laws is the responsibility of duly elected representatives of the people - not arrogant judges who fancy themselves "social engineers".
 

Forum List

Back
Top