The "RINO" Thread

[Toro]

The ones that didn't trust him didn't show up to be counted in the exit poll.

Sure they did - a lot of them show up in the Obama column.
A lot of them show up in the Romney column too. Because Romney's campaign was NEVER about how good Romney is ... it was ALWAYS about how bad Obama is.
The far right fanatics showed up in droves to vote against Obama. They would have voted for anyone as long as it wasn't Barack Obama.

October 2012 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 39%, Dem 33%, Ind 27%

2012 - Mitt Romney...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 38%, Ind. 29%



For comparison:

October 2004 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 37%, Dem 39%, Ind 24%

2004 - George Bush...exit polling Rep 37%, Dem 37%, Ind. 26%


October 2008 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 33%, Dem 40%, Ind 26%

2008 - John McCain...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 39%, Ind 29%



So you tell me...who didn't show up?

Rasmussen wasn't accurate during Presidential polling. They consistently overstated Republicans in their methodologies. This suggests that Rasmussen was wrong in their October identification of affiliations, not that millions of Republicans stayed home.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those lower numbers are the result of the hatred turning off the sensible pubs, centrists, and leftists.

Hate by his own voters defeated Romney.

 

[g5000]

That all may be true, but this is about how party is alienating moderates both inside and outside the party.

Romney may have governed as a moderate but he did not run as a moderate, at least to those who aren't on the far right of the GOP.

Actually, Romney struck me as a moderate. Certainly moreso than Obama.

Romney's problem, though, is that he never gave any specifics about what he would do. I was far more turned off by the hordes of morons in the GOP than Romney himself.


.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Those lower numbers are the result of the hatred turning off the sensible pubs, centrists, and leftists.

Hate by his own voters defeated Romney.

I think it indicates two things.
1) Those on the fartherest right fringe don't identify themselves as Republicans anymore. They vote for Republicans because they consider them the lesser of two evils, but they don't identify themselves as Republicans. And Republicans are (for some reason) still kissing their butts.

2) The GOP is he leaking moderates (like Olympia Snowe) faster than a submarine with a screen door.

When you put it together, it's plain for anyone - the GOP is in deep.

 

[JakeStarkey]

100% correct.

That all may be true, but this is about how party is alienating moderates both inside and outside the party.

Romney may have governed as a moderate but he did not run as a moderate, at least to those who aren't on the far right of the GOP.

Actually, Romney struck me as a moderate. Certainly moreso than Obama.

Romney's problem, though, is that he never gave any specifics about what he would do. I was far more turned off by the hordes of morons in the GOP than Romney himself.


.

 

[asterism]

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

There was no definitive proposal for tax reform (like the FairTax or 9-9-9), just some nebulous concepts. Ryan's ideas didn't go far enough, they didn't actually cut any spending. Also, Ryan is a career politician with no achievement outside of Washington. That's not a solution for any problems.

The GOP has failed us ever since 2005 when Gillespie announced that the Republican Party was no longer the party of small government. Instead of being talked down to by unsuccessful Republican autocrats, I'm going to try and bring our local Libertarian Party into the mainstream.

That all may be true, but this is about how party is alienating moderates both inside and outside the party.

Romney may have governed as a moderate but he did not run as a moderate, at least to those who aren't on the far right of the GOP.

That's a perception problem - the electorate is becoming less and less informed. Romney ran as an economic moderate and a social right winger. Increased government spending by a much lower margin than the incumbent's proposals cannot ever be described as "conservative."

 

[Missourian]

The rassmussen polls shows what percentage of people who showed up at the polls identified themselves as. It - by definition - doesn't say anything about who stayed home.

Unless you ASSUME that the same number of Americans on the whole are identifying themselves with the same parties. My numbers - which are not exit poll numbers - show that there is a smaller pool of Republicans (percentage wise) today than in 2005. And Rassmussen's polls have been notoriously off since 2008. You'd do better to cite a more reliable poll.

Please...click the link.

The Rasmussen poll ISN'T AN EXIT POLL.

It is a monthly poll independent of any election.

If you don't want to admit the obvious...just stop posting.

I'm trying to find a way to say this nicely...

You are blinded by your bias...you are so sure you are correct that you haven't looked at what I posted.

So far you have made two posts about it and both have been absolutely incorrect.

Take a deep breath, read the links and come back and post something supported by facts.

I've posted my facts. Your post was based partially on exit polls which by definition can produce nothing to address who stayed at home.

Your second piece of "verification" were Rassmussen polls which indicate exactly the opposite of what the polls I posted claimed.

Fine, you want to keep sticking to "Rassmussen is right and everyone else is wrong."
That's your right. In American there is no obligation to learn from mistakes.

You must use your critical thinking skills.

I'll spell it out for you.

October 2012 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 39%, Dem 33%, Ind 27%

2012 - Mitt Romney...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 38%, Ind. 29%

Self identified Republicans national wide 39% in October 2012.

Self identified Republicans who voted in November 2012? 32%

Self identified Democrats nation wide 33% in October 2012.

Self identified Democrats who voted in November 2012? 38%

Utilizing Ockum's Razor, and those critical thinking skills, which do you think is more likely?

That 7% of Republicans defected in the last few weeks of the election and became Democrats OR that 2% defected (which is within the realm of possibility) and 10% of self identified Republicans stayed home?

Because when we look at the historical comparison, the number of self identified Republicans, Democrats and Independents nationwide is within 1%-2% of the percentage that self identified in exit polling.




October 2004 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 37%, Dem 39%, Ind 24%

2004 - George Bush...exit polling Rep 37%, Dem 37%, Ind. 26%




October 2008 Rasmussen party ID poll...Rep 33%, Dem 40%, Ind 26%

2008 - John McCain...exit polling Rep 32%, Dem 39%, Ind 29%


And these are Rasmussen national numbers too...the exit polling is CNN and Fox. But here the national numbers are within the margin of error,

It is YOUR contention that the 2012 numbers are somehow not accurate...mostly because they do not support your hypothesis.

Unfortunately, that isn't in itself a valid disqualification.



So, now that you've been led though the data...who didn't show up?

 

[initforme]

"The truth is what Romney said, he was exactly right, it has gotten to the point where the Democrats have convinced the working poor that they need to vote for them or else. How can anyone defend against such ingrained BS? So the democrats start out with a 47 percent lead in all the elections. "

Too bad the GOP basically has said that the working middle class should have less and be thankful for it while the big whigs get more. Their stance behind corporate america cost them this election.

 

[Sunni Man]

If the Republican party would stick to it's traditional conservative agenda and quit pandering to the so called moderates, both inside and outside of the party.

It would attract far more people and basically crush the DNC on every issue and decisively win the national elections.

 

[initforme]

When the GOP welcomes middle class workers and quits even taking into consideration the needs of the uber wealthy then they will attract more voters.

 

[asterism]

When the GOP welcomes middle class workers and quits even taking into consideration the needs of the uber wealthy then they will attract more voters.

That's the other perception problem. The ultra wealthy support the economic agenda of the left.

 

[Si modo]

Would you have politically opposed slavery?

Surely you don't deny that it was a moral issue.

Lincoln, the father of the Republican party, is not remembered for his fiscal policy, but for his moral stand.

I remember him (from studies, of course) as the POTUS who has come closer than anyone to destroying this nation.

You have really surprised me the last few days, modo.

Dunno if that is a good thing or bad thing.

 

[Gadawg73]

If the Republican party would stick to it's traditional conservative agenda and quit pandering to the so called moderates, both inside and outside of the party.

It would attract far more people and basically crush the DNC on every issue and decisively win the national elections.

On fiscal issues definitely agree!
On social issues no way in hell as that has us where we are now.

 

[Gadawg73]

When the GOP welcomes middle class workers and quits even taking into consideration the needs of the uber wealthy then they will attract more voters.

When the left stops believing only the middle class works and deserves more consideration than those that make more than them possibly the divisiveness they have created with their class warfare agenda will end.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think I've stumbled across a question that, when answered, could go a long way in explaining the gap.

Do you believe that a weathier person is a smarter person and a person whose opinion of government deserves more weight?

 

[del]

Romney ran on

- cutting taxes
- cutting spending
- increasing defense spending
- closer ties with Israel and a more hard line on Iran
- repeal Obamacare

He also picked as his running mate the guy whose signature item is a radical restructuring of Medicare designed to limit spending on healthcare.

What was moderate about that? That may look moderate to the far right but it looks conservative to everyone else.

You define yourself as moderate, and you believe in these things, do you not?

So this proves nothing.

Romney was a moderate.

To deny it is foolishness.

And the to say? "Well we picked this guy, but it the social conservatives ...who didn't want him in the first place... it's their fault moderates didn't vote for him in the general election..." is total and complete hogwash.

This was YOUR candidate.

Fiscally conservative, and not socially conservative.

He was a pro-choice governor. "On a personal basis, I don't favor abortion. However, as governor of the commonwealth, I will protect a woman's right to choose under the laws of the country and the commonwealth. That's the same position I've had for many years."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governorship_of_Mitt_Romney#cite_note-i2000-a-142

He stated in 2002 "All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual orientation. While he does not support gay marriage, Mitt Romney believes domestic partnership status should be recognized in a way that includes the potential for health benefits and rights of survivorship."

He signed an Assault weapons ban into law...and voiced support for reinstating the federal ban.

And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Now, deny it.

Let's hear it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governorship_of_Mitt_Romney#cite_note-108

I'm sorry. I thought this was 2012 not 1994. My mistake.

Now, if you want to talk about 2012 and the 2012 election and the platform he ran on, feel free.

There was a reason why both sides barely made a peep about Romney's time as governor. You know that, right?

romney did less than nothing as a governor

he stood back, let the legislature do what they wanted to, and tried to look presidential.

when he bothered to hang around at all

 

[JakeStarkey]

Pandering to social values and libertarian wings will continue to lose us elections. The dems will continue to win because the majority of Americans despise far right hatred.

If the Republican party would stick to it's traditional conservative agenda and quit pandering to the so called moderates, both inside and outside of the party.

It would attract far more people and basically crush the DNC on every issue and decisively win the national elections.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Pandering to social values and libertarian wings will continue to lose us elections. The dems will continue to win because the majority of Americans despise far right hatred.

If the Republican party would stick to it's traditional conservative agenda and quit pandering to the so called moderates, both inside and outside of the party.

It would attract far more people and basically crush the DNC on every issue and decisively win the national elections.

Juan McCain, staunch Libertarian

You need to work on your "I'm a Republican!!" Act

 

[rightwinger]

Pandering to social values and libertarian wings will continue to lose us elections. The dems will continue to win because the majority of Americans despise far right hatred.

If the Republican party would stick to it's traditional conservative agenda and quit pandering to the so called moderates, both inside and outside of the party.

It would attract far more people and basically crush the DNC on every issue and decisively win the national elections.

Juan McCain, staunch Libertarian

You need to work on your "I'm a Republican!!" Act

Ron Paul, staunch Libertarian

Can't win a national election to save his life

 

[nodoginnafight]

Pandering to social values and libertarian wings will continue to lose us elections. The dems will continue to win because the majority of Americans despise far right hatred.

If the Republican party would stick to it's traditional conservative agenda and quit pandering to the so called moderates, both inside and outside of the party.

It would attract far more people and basically crush the DNC on every issue and decisively win the national elections.

Juan McCain, staunch Libertarian

You need to work on your "I'm a Republican!!" Act

Good Point. John McCain and Mitt Romney - two guys who stood a real chance of getting elected until the far right of the GOP sentenced both of them to 6 years of genuflecting and far right ass kissing. Two perfectly electable guys until the far right made them into people no one could trust.

Both were forced into trying to out right flank their primary opponents with idiotic and unrealistic panderings like "self-deport" and Sarah Palin.

Yeah - not conservative enough ....