The Right To Destroy Jewish History

[abi]

The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)

You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.

Right of return... Finally, you got it!

 

[Shusha]

The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)

You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.

Right of return... Finally, you got it!

I have been supporting the argument for the right of return for more than a dozen years. Start a thread.

 

[abi]

I have been supporting the argument for the right of return for more than a dozen years. Start a thread.

That is delusional. You argue that right of return puts the zionists in a position where they are no longer the majority vote. That idea infuriates you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I get that this is your point. And I'm attacking your point because it's wrong.

Prove it then. Show me exactly how Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history.

Ah, I've failed to provide evidence that Israel is doing what the Palestinians are doing, even though MY ARGUMENT is that Israel is doing something DIFFERENT to what the Palestinians are doing.

I have no doubt Israel is doing different things. Start a thread for the different things, then. This thread is about the destruction of history.

As for no camps in Israeli territory, I'm not really sure what point you think you're trying to make with this.

The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)

You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Oh, here we go again. The old "start a new thread if you don't agree with me" lark. Er.... I have a difference of opinion, that doesn't mean I can't say it in this thread.
And to be honest it's starting to piss me off that the same lame fucking tactics are getting used over and over to stop people from mentioning that you're wrong.

Here was my analogy from before.

I start a thread called "The Moon is made of cheese" and if anyone comes and says the Moon isn't made of cheese I'm going to tell them that this thread is about the Moon being made of cheese and they can get lost and start their own thread if they want to talk about the Moon being made of something else.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The point I am making is that Israel does not control the camps. She has absolutely NO influence on how the Palestinian people are treated outside her areas of control. (Within her area of control, there are no camps because she didn't make any.)

You want the people from the camps released and given lives with dignity. I FULLY support that. You have no idea how much I support that. The sooner the better. Start a thread on it and I will participate. But it has NOTHING to do with the destruction of history.

Right of return... Finally, you got it!

I have been supporting the argument for the right of return for more than a dozen years. Start a thread.

And there you go again.

 

[Shusha]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.

 

[montelatici]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

Most Palestinians living in Palestine in 1947were evicted from Palesrine and they and their descendants now live outside of Palestine. As many as 90% of the Christian Palestinians were forced to leave Palestine under duress.

Your claim that Zionists have not had and continue to have a policy of destroying the Palestinian culture and identity is ludicrous. It is belied by even the Zionist posters here, when they claim that Palestinians are Arabians from the Arabian peninsula and that Palestinians don't exist.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 18, 2017

Excerpt of an op-ed by Yahya Rabah, regular columnist for the official PA daily

“[Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu is attempting to use even Israel’s transparent stories and tales in order to get out of his personal troubles. An example of this is the statement he recently gave regarding the settlement in Hebron, when he said that: ‘Israeli settlement in Hebron rests on historical rights.’ This is despite [the fact] that the young people in the Jewish schools know that Abraham – when his wife Sarah died and he wanted to buy a plot of land in order to bury her – discovered that the Canaanite laws in Hebron forbid selling land to foreigners, and therefore the king of Hebron was forced to give him a cave in order to bury his wife (sic., according to Genesis, the Hittites offered to let Abraham bury Sarah wherever he pleased without paying for the plot, but he insisted on buying the Cave of the Patriarchs, which did not belong to a king of Hebron).”

Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW

 

[Sixties Fan]

The debate over who invented falafel balls is never going to be resolved.

But everyone agrees that the idea of a falafel sandwich in pita is completely Israeli.

As Haaretz reported in 2012, "Falafel was made popular in Israel by Yemeni Jews in the 1950s. They brought with them the chickpea version of the dish from Yemen and introduced the concept of serving falafel balls in pita bread."

Clearly, falafel in pita is an Israeli innovation and an example of Israeli cuisine.

And look who stole it:

The GoPalestine page includes this photo of "Palestinian" falafel in pita:



(full article online)

Palestinians stealing Israeli falafel culture! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Humanity]

The debate over who invented falafel balls is never going to be resolved.

But everyone agrees that the idea of a falafel sandwich in pita is completely Israeli.

As Haaretz reported in 2012, "Falafel was made popular in Israel by Yemeni Jews in the 1950s. They brought with them the chickpea version of the dish from Yemen and introduced the concept of serving falafel balls in pita bread."

Clearly, falafel in pita is an Israeli innovation and an example of Israeli cuisine.

And look who stole it:

The GoPalestine page includes this photo of "Palestinian" falafel in pita:



(full article online)

Palestinians stealing Israeli falafel culture! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

You just know, when people start throwing food around, excuse the pun, that any sanity in a discussion has gone out of the window!

You will be telling me next that kebabs are northern European!!

 

[Sixties Fan]

Official PA TV program Palestine This Morning, on the anniversary of the PLO Palestinian declaration of independence, hosting PLO Executive Committee member Saleh Rafat

PLO Executive Committee member Saleh Rafat: "There are deep Palestinian roots in Palestine throughout all of history. It is a Zionist invention that this is the land of the Jewish patriarchs. This is completely incorrect. There were Jews in Palestine... We have Muslims, Christians, and Jews. But all of them were and still are [part of] the Palestinian people. Therefore, it's a lie that was invented. The Khazar Jews were brought and expelled from Europe to Palestine, in order to get rid of them. Germany wanted to get rid of them, [as did] Britain, France, and Italy. All of Europe wanted to get rid of the Jews and expel them so that the West would have a permanent base in the Middle East. Indeed, they established the State of Israel on the land of historical Palestine."

(full article online)

PLO official: Jewish historical ties to the land is “a Zionist invention,” Jews are in “Palestine” because “Europe wanted to get rid of them” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW

 

[Shusha]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.

Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.

You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture. Let's talk about that.

Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site? Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols? Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?

Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel. Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria? Why or why not?

If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment? What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive? What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?

Let's talk about the subject matter. Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

 

[Humanity]

Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

To be fair one doesn't have to try too hard to find reasons to bash Israel.

Israel is always coming up with reasons!

 

[Shusha]

Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

To be fair one doesn't have to try too hard to find reasons to bash Israel.

Israel is always coming up with reasons!

There are plenty of reasons to criticize the policies of Israel's government. Bashing Israel is something different.

Did you care to respond to how in a "right of return" scenario, the Arabs will guarantee the preservation of Jewish culture?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Official PA TV show Palestine This Morning, on the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, hosting Fatah Revolutionary Council member Abdallah Kmeil

Fatah Revolutionary Council member Abdallah Kmeil: "When we talk about the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration), we must also talk- or get into a historical matter. There is the [former British Prime Minister Sir Henry] Campbell-Bannerman document for instance, which is an important document prepared by the former British prime minister, who held a series of meetings with the colonialist states at the time, between 1905 and 1907 (PMW could find no reliable record of such a document and the minutes of the 1907 Imperial Conference led by Campbell-Bannerman disprove the following claims –Ed.). This document divided the world into three parts – a part to work with that is an ally and the one that has a connection to the advanced Christian culture – they are to be helped by all means and worked with as they are allies. There is also the second part, and this is the part that between this culture and that part there is no- [there is no connection to] the states included in this framework there is no cultural clash between them, and therefore they are to be helped cautiously. The third part is the significant part that was being looked at, and that is the Arab region. They looked at the Arab region and at [the fact] that it should be made ignorant by all means, and should be divided by all means. And this nation that speaks one language cannot be divided, as it says in the text of the document: They have one language, approximately one religion, and shared hopes, and therefore also one history. They must be divided by planting a foreign body in the heart of the Arab homeland, and especially between Asia and Africa. And they talked about Israel or the Jews being the ones who need to be in this region. If so, the idea of a national home for the Jews is a colonialist idea, and even the Jews themselves did not have a plan-"

(full article online)

Fatah official: “The idea of a national home for the Jews is a colonialist idea… [Palestinians must] sue Britain as we are talking about a holocaust that has exceeded the Holocaust of the Jewish people in Germany” - Jewish history in Land of Israel erased | PMW

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.

Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.

You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture. Let's talk about that.

Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site? Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols? Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?

Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel. Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria? Why or why not?

If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment? What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive? What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?

Let's talk about the subject matter. Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.

What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.

Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?

Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?

Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.

If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.

You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?

Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.

I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.

 

[Coyote]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.

Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.

You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture. Let's talk about that.

Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site? Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols? Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?

Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel. Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria? Why or why not?

If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment? What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive? What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?

Let's talk about the subject matter. Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.

What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.

Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?

Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?

Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.

If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.

You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?

Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.

I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.

Actually that's a good question.

Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not? And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount. And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.

Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.

You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture. Let's talk about that.

Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site? Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols? Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?

Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel. Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria? Why or why not?

If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment? What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive? What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?

Let's talk about the subject matter. Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.

What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.

Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?

Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?

Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.

If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.

You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?

Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.

I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.

Simply amazing how many wrong historical facts one can put in so many paragraphs.

But you have done it.

Congratulations.

Is there anything you can provide for the discussion about the destruction of Jewish History?

No?

Not the thread for you, then.

So long

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well I've done some of that already and you rejected it because it doesn't meet with your agenda.

You have brought up unrelated topics in order to confuse and conflate the issue. You have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that Israel is deliberately destroying Palestinian history -- which is the topic of the thread.

If you recall I mentioned the camps, moving Muslims out of Israeli territory etc.

Ah, and see here you make a subtle shift in your argument. Its not really about the camps or the loss of culture. Its about ethnic cleansing.

Okay. Gotcha. Ethnic cleansing is a method of destroying history. Let's look at that.

How many Arabs are there in Israel? How many Arabs visit the Temple Mount each year?

How many Jews are in Gaza? The 'West Bank'? Jordan? The remaining nations of the ME? How many Jews are permitted to visit the Temple Mount annually?

Who is actually destroying culture here?

Further, let's look at where the Arab Palestinians are. The vast majority of them are still in Palestine. They haven't been removed from their country.

No, I brought up different views of other topics that you did not want to address because it goes away from your agenda.

As for the rest, I'm not in the mood for your semantics right now.

Oh, give me a break, I have addressed every one of your posts with lengthy responses.

You wanted to talk about how cleansing people from their homeland removes their culture. Let's talk about that.

Why aren't the Jewish people permitted to pray at their own most Holy site? Why, the few who are permitted to access the holy site, must they remove all cultural symbols? Why must they make their culture invisible to the usurpers of their holy site?

Further, you wanted to talk about the return of the Arab Palestinians to their homeland -- including the part under the sovereignty of Israel. Are you also willing to allow the return of the Jewish people to their homeland in Judea and Samaria? Why or why not?

If the Arabs are to return to Israel, perhaps in a one State solution, how will the Jewish culture be preserved in that environment? What evidences do you have that the Arabs will permit the Jewish culture to exist, let alone thrive? What guarantees would you give the Jewish people?

Let's talk about the subject matter. Or did you just want to find reasons to bash Israel?

Yes, you could have written a lengthy response about the 1789 Super Bowl, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily relevant.

What you're telling me is either that I stick to the parts of the topic you want to talk about or else I'm off topic. Which would basically mean that I'm not allowed to disagree with the whole premise of your view of the topic.

Why can't Jews go to their most Holy Site and pray?

Well, the Jews came into the region with all guns blazing and kicked out a large number of the local inhabitants and put a lot of them into camps. I'd say the locals are pretty pissed off, wouldn't you say?

Pissed off enough to try anything to get their own back? And it's not like Israel doesn't provoke at every given opportunity. Palestinian homes being destroyed, new Jewish homes being built all the time.

If you want to live side by side peacefully, you're going to have to act in a different way. I'm not saying it's possible, the animosity over the last 70 years is immense and might take two generations or more to put right, and certainly the politicians to put it right aren't in power.

You say I want to talk about the return of Arab Palestinians to their homeland. Er.. I don't ever remember talking about that with you.. so..... what?

Ah, you think I'm just here to bash Israel. You're just trying to stick my views in a convenient little box that you can understand simply. Sorry dude, my views don't fit in any of your boxes. I'm saying what I'm saying, don't make assumptions about what I'm not saying, it annoys the hell out of me. I've had so many debates on here where people start assuming I think something I don't think.

I already told you once, I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm not pro-Israeli. I think the right wing Israeli govt is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes, and I think Hamas is full of fuckheads who are using the situation for their own political purposes.

Actually that's a good question.

Why are the Muslims allowed to and the Jews not? And, that started before the conflict - for centuries there was a total ban on non-Muslim worship at the Temple Mount. And speaking of provoking - I would have to concede that Israel has gone out of the way to AVOID provocations - allowing Muslims complete access to prayer at the Temple Mount while restricting Jewish access.

And maybe they just pick and choose their battles for what they think they can get out of it. They certainly don't shy away from provoking where they think they can get away with it.