The Right To Bear Arms

[P@triot]

i don't take the right wing seriously about the law, from Inception.

That's ok snowflake - nobody takes you seriously about anything. The fact that you don't even know that "i" is a proper pronoun which should be capitalized or that the first letter of any sentence is capitalized illustrates your limited IQ.

 

[esthermoon]

Here if you have a little knife even at night you can get arrested

Man....I couldn't handle that. At all. Authoritarian stuff like that would make me snap. I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me what I can and can't carry on me.

I can hear you. But here in Vietnam every single gun or knife is not allowed unless you're a policeman, or a soldier or a "vip" member of the Party

 

[danielpalos]

why was the perpetrator "worrying" and not, being happy, to such an extent, he had to "rebel against authority"?

Probably because he has to live in a country where liberty is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution but constantly stripped by left-wing hatriot fascists.

why was that Person not home having a peaceful time with family and friends?

 

[P@triot]

why was the perpetrator "worrying" and not, being happy, to such an extent, he had to "rebel against authority"?

Probably because he has to live in a country where liberty is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution but constantly stripped by left-wing hatriot fascists.

why was that Person not home having a peaceful time with family and friends?

Failed left-wing policy probably cost him both his job and his home. I know it did that to a LOT of people. Barack Obama sure got extremely wealthy though - didn't he?

 

[Billo_Really]

I could care less about the 2nd amendment.

It didn't do any good at Ruby Ridge.

 

[P@triot]

I could care less about the 2nd amendment.

And the American people could care less that you care less about the 2nd Amendment!

It didn't do any good at Ruby Ridge.

Thank you for illustrating why enforcing the U.S. Constitution and government limited to their powers are so important.

 

[Skull Pilot]

yeah why don't you lead the charge ?

i wasn't there; there were plenty of people with cell phone cameras.

so if it happens when you happen to be outside and not in Mommy's basement jerking off you'll be the first guy to charge a shooter right?

it depends on the situation. however, from a, hypothetical "tactical" perspective, simply "diving into the guy" would probably knock the guy off of the officer and give the officer enough time to recover; and proceed with any further, coercive use of force of the State.

at least until i can build a keep.

you have to get a job first

 

[2aguy]

Hilary had a plan to use court decisions to get her way by suing gun makers ...and getting them to settle in court and limit themselves.....I have posted this plan which is documented at the Clinton Library....

She and others want the gun manufacturers held liable when their own negligence in what they produce causes harm or death.

The NRA (bow down, mortal) has fought safety being built into guns. Care to discuss some of those? Making a car that is unsafe gets the manufacturer into deep trouble. Guns should be no different. Shoot, Blenders have adequate safety standards. Table Saws are now getting a safety feature that won't allow them to cut your fingers off. One of the biggest pain in the ass and yet the most safe thing on a 1911 is the grip safety. Yet, they allow the High Power Semi Autos to be made and spread throughout the land. Even the safety on that one is unsafe. It's just plain junk. Drop a High Power with it's safety on and even with the slide locked (a real joke) and find out what happens. You, too, can plunk down 150 bucks and buy a high power semi auto in many calibers.

What makes a gun less regulated than a Toaster?

Boy....you are stupid..... Guns have safety features you moron......

Do you even understand anything about guns? From your post it is obvious you don't know anything about them or the law covering actual problems with guns.......

You really are too stupid to post on this topic.....

You either sell yourself long or everyone else short. FACT: The States are passing gun controls that YOU think are Unconstitional. Hillary has nothing to do with this. It's the States. Of course, the States are having the mass shootings. What is the one thing that ALL Mass shootings have in common? Large capacity mags. What does many states have in place? Putting a Max of 10, 15 or 20 round clips.

We ain't buying what you are selling anymore. Your Fear and Hate got Trump elected. Are you capable of feeling shame?

I am done with you, criminal.[/QUOTE]


You have no idea what you are talking about....magazine capacity has nothing to do with the problem of mass public shootings.........there is actual research into this idea...it is a fake idea, it is simply another way that anti gunners want to backdoor ban as many types of guns as they can....

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.


In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[Flash]

[Q


You have no idea what you are talking about....magazine capacity has nothing to do with the problem of mass public shootings.........there is actual research into this idea...it is a fake idea, it is simply another way that anti gunners want to backdoor ban as many types of guns as they can....

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.


In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

Don't confuse these Moon Bats with facts. You will just upset them and they will have to run to their safe place, put on their pink ***** hat and call you a Nazi.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Hilary had a plan to use court decisions to get her way by suing gun makers ...and getting them to settle in court and limit themselves.....I have posted this plan which is documented at the Clinton Library....

She and others want the gun manufacturers held liable when their own negligence in what they produce causes harm or death.

The NRA (bow down, mortal) has fought safety being built into guns. Care to discuss some of those? Making a car that is unsafe gets the manufacturer into deep trouble. Guns should be no different. Shoot, Blenders have adequate safety standards. Table Saws are now getting a safety feature that won't allow them to cut your fingers off. One of the biggest pain in the ass and yet the most safe thing on a 1911 is the grip safety. Yet, they allow the High Power Semi Autos to be made and spread throughout the land. Even the safety on that one is unsafe. It's just plain junk. Drop a High Power with it's safety on and even with the slide locked (a real joke) and find out what happens. You, too, can plunk down 150 bucks and buy a high power semi auto in many calibers.

What makes a gun less regulated than a Toaster?

Making a car that is unsafe gets the manufacturer into deep trouble. Guns should be no different.

Which guns are unsafe? Link?

What makes a gun less regulated than a Toaster?

Your imagination.

 

[danielpalos]

why was the perpetrator "worrying" and not, being happy, to such an extent, he had to "rebel against authority"?

Probably because he has to live in a country where liberty is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution but constantly stripped by left-wing hatriot fascists.

why was that Person not home having a peaceful time with family and friends?

Failed left-wing policy probably cost him both his job and his home. I know it did that to a LOT of people. Barack Obama sure got extremely wealthy though - didn't he?

why can we afford a war on drugs, and not unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States?

 

[danielpalos]

i wasn't there; there were plenty of people with cell phone cameras.

so if it happens when you happen to be outside and not in Mommy's basement jerking off you'll be the first guy to charge a shooter right?

it depends on the situation. however, from a, hypothetical "tactical" perspective, simply "diving into the guy" would probably knock the guy off of the officer and give the officer enough time to recover; and proceed with any further, coercive use of force of the State.

at least until i can build a keep.

you have to get a job first

why do you think i am advocating for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis; to learn how to build a keep, and put keep building on my resume.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

why was the perpetrator "worrying" and not, being happy, to such an extent, he had to "rebel against authority"?

Probably because he has to live in a country where liberty is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution but constantly stripped by left-wing hatriot fascists.

why was that Person not home having a peaceful time with family and friends?

Failed left-wing policy probably cost him both his job and his home. I know it did that to a LOT of people. Barack Obama sure got extremely wealthy though - didn't he?

why can we afford a war on drugs, and not unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States?

and not unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed

Sorry, dude, we're still not gonna give you unemployment compensation just because you never had a job.

 

[P@triot]

why can we afford a war on drugs, and not unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States?

Because drugs are crime. And we have to fund law enforcement. However, at-will unemployment is an idiot committing a self-inflicted wound. Take care of your finances, have money stacked away, and you can quit your job. If not, get your ass to work. Society is not supporting you. That is your job as a big boy or girl.

That being said - I do not agree with a federal agency for drugs as that is not the constitutional responsibility of the federal government. It should be handled by each individual state.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I believe sane people should be able to have guns....

 

[P@triot]

you have to get a job first

why do you think i am advocating for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis; to learn how to build a keep, and put keep building on my resume.

What? How does getting paid by the federal government to quit your job help your résumé?!? Are you not aware that most employers don't look for people who quit their jobs?!?

 

[P@triot]

I believe sane people should be able to have guns....

Well that eliminates you...

 

[task0778]

I believe sane people should be able to have guns....

Couple of things. I got no problem with trying to ensure the mentally ill or insane people don't have weapons, and I can also see law enforcement officials temporarily removing a person's firearms with a warrant from the bench. Then a judge can hold a hearing to determine if the person should get his/her weapons back or not.

Other thing is, if I knew for a fact that a person(s) breaking into my home would take my stuff and leave me and my family unharmed, I'd not need a gun. I don't want to kill somebody over money or property, neither of which I have my of anyway. Even a miscreant's life is ot mine to take, or shouldn't be. But I think that is not the case and so to protect myself and my loved ones I own some weapons and keep them at home. And if it comes down to him or me, it's gonna be him.

 

[Markle]

Maybe not obsolete but antiquated, out of date...

... it needs to be updated to reflect the times...

... and the threat of overkill firepower...

... for the average citizen.

Never happen. Repeat, NEVER. If you have any doubts, please see the Red States.

You might as well move on to something relevant to Progressives. You know, like welcoming men into women's rooms.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I will be willing to give up my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms upon arrest if the stupid Moon Bats agree not to advocate taking my right to keep and bear arms away from me because somebody else uses a firearm either unsafely or in a crime. Agree?

I am a firearms expert with several arms, booby traps, knives and will not yield to any man or government my G_d given rights. I will not be alive upon this earth many more moons however anyone who takes me for granted makes a fatal mistake because though I may be much slower I know more ways to sent my enemies to meet their maker than when I was 21.

God given rights? You think God gave you the right to have a gun? Er....

Oh please do try to be serious. Have you not at least tried to study the documents surrounding the writing of the Constitution? It is hard to discuss a subject with someone that does not have at least a basic understanding of American History. Get a good university level book on American Constitutional History and read up please.

Yes.

The simple fact is that all the rights protected by the Constitution were made by man. I can prove this. I can go through English history and show you the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights, and then on to the US Bill of Rights and at EVERY STAGE it was MAN that made these things. It was man who made the philosophical argument for rights. There's no god or God there.

The Founding Fathers made freedom of religion an important part of the new country, and freedom of religion means you don't have to follow any god at all. So, it wasn't just those who believed in a god that got the rights, or were given the rights, it was everyone (well, we know it wasn't everyone, but you get the point) and not based on religion. So, based on what came before, based on what the founders said, it was clearly MAN who gave people rights.

My, what a statist view you have.

Apparently you missed the "God-given right" thing.

The concept of it may not penetrate your PC-stricken brain. That doesn't mean it's not a valid concept; only that you're too indoctrinated to realize it.

God given right, but I also have the right not to believe in God. Great.

I know what rights are, you can pretend they are god given, but you can't force this on me. So......?