The Right To Bear Arms

[Brain357]

With as many of the cult of bloodbath aka muslims that are being forced on us in America. We can never stand down and be disarmed! Once they start going after Americans, they need a tri pattern in chest. If a serious disarming effort is attempted, every firearm needs to show up in Washington.

Where have you been? Did you notice the last attempt at gun control failed? It was far from taking guns away. Relax, don't be so paranoid.

But they never, ever stop......they will continue to fight for each and every gun, bullet and piece of equipment, so we have to be just as determined to stop them.......

Sure they will. They are going backwards now so don't be so paranoid.

 

[2aguy]

Name them.

Denmark. Sweden. Netherlands. Australia....

Denmark and the Netherlands both lost thousands of people to the German death camps. Might want to check your history there. The aboriginals likewise suffered at the hands of those who were armed. Sweden is indeed one of the few countries that hasn't had a mass murderer take control but 16% of the population does indeed own guns, so they are not disarmed are they?

And that has what to do with how many guns they had? That was WWII. And since then there have been many countries with few guns in citizens hands living quite peaceful and happy.

For now......it only took Germany 20 years to go from the Weimar republic to the Death camps of hitler's Germany....20 years......and do you think the Germans of 1917 thought that in 20 years they would be gassing 6 million Jews and millions of other "undesirables".....they were probably like you guys.......never needed a gun so no one else needs one either.....and 20 years later you have 12 million dead......

Germany didnt go from a stable country with real voting rights to that. Name a country that has?

Won't happen in this modern time with cell phones, 24 hour news, Internet.... Our military is the best we have and would never go with any tyrant.

So...Germany was a third world Country before the nazis....What about Belgium, Norway, France...and all the countries invaded by Germany, or Russia, or Japan and Italy........they murdered millions in the countries they invaded....

 

[Brain357]

Denmark. Sweden. Netherlands. Australia....

Denmark and the Netherlands both lost thousands of people to the German death camps. Might want to check your history there. The aboriginals likewise suffered at the hands of those who were armed. Sweden is indeed one of the few countries that hasn't had a mass murderer take control but 16% of the population does indeed own guns, so they are not disarmed are they?

And that has what to do with how many guns they had? That was WWII. And since then there have been many countries with few guns in citizens hands living quite peaceful and happy.

Swedens numbers are current. The fact that they had no guns to defend themselves is the point. Funny how whenever a population is disarmed, imprisonment and death soon follow.

Soon follow? I think WWII might have been before gun control in those countries. And well they have been doing quite well ever since. That is hardly soon.

actually, no....Weimar Germany began taking away guns from people....and then the nazis faced disarmed Jews and dissenters when they started their rise to power...instead of facing Jewish business owners who could fight back, their brown shirts had free reign because they were younger, stronger, in greater numbers and more aggressive....everything that a gun will equalize.....if more Germans were armed then the brown shirts, much like our klan in the south, wouldn't have been as effective at beating their enemies into submission.....

That's old bill. And for obvious reasons won't happen in a country with real freedom and voting rights.

 

[2aguy]

true-automatic fire-suppress movement, break contact

single shots-inflict casualties

1989=Turtle doing demo for news chicks at a range north of Cincinnati

10 IPSC targets 1.5 yards apart-20 yards down range

turtle-one colt SMG 9mm32 round magazine

1) shot full auto-32 rounds in about 2 seconds-hit most of the targets

2) shot semi auto-one shot per target-all center of mass-less than 3 seconds-had 22 rounds left and all the targets were hit so as to normally be fatal in 75% of the cases

3) one shot per target-head shots-all targets hit in the head in less than 4 seconds-all guaranteed kills with 22 rounds left

4) one 10 shot semi auto shotgun loaded with federal tactical # 4 buckshot

less than 3 seconds-every target filled with at least 15 holes

full auto least "deadly"

I see what you ment now by "deadly". What applications do you see civilians needing a machine gun for? There is only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Based on the number of defenses that is already quite a low number. I don't think you can get much less deadly to criminals than that.

You know the 230 number is probably too low.....when a homicide is changed from murder to justified by a prosecutor or the killer is found innocent in court, the FBI doesn't change the data....so that number is off....probably too low....but still pretty good considering that law abiding gun owners use their guns 1.6 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

It is from the FBI. Not going to find more accurate number. You mean mostly criminals defending themselves as kleck has admitted.

Brain....Kleck did not say self defense deaths are criminals fighting criminals....he most definitely said that back in the 90s when people had their rights violated to carry weapons for self defense, many of them did any way...and he didn't quantify how many of the 2.5 million were that situation anyway....so your using it is decietful.....they were not gang members or drug dealers just average citizens who needed to protect themselves.....and the 238 is not accurate...the FBI does not follow up on homicides and if they stay justifiable or not....so they don't change their numbers....

He said most defenders are involved in criminal activity. That makes them criminals.

And he pointed out that they were carrying guns for protection from criminals and in many cases it was not legal at the time...they were not actual criminals conducting criminal business, just law abiding citizens practising their 2nd amendment rights...and we still don't know how many of the 2.5 million even fit that category.....

 

[2aguy]

Denmark and the Netherlands both lost thousands of people to the German death camps. Might want to check your history there. The aboriginals likewise suffered at the hands of those who were armed. Sweden is indeed one of the few countries that hasn't had a mass murderer take control but 16% of the population does indeed own guns, so they are not disarmed are they?

And that has what to do with how many guns they had? That was WWII. And since then there have been many countries with few guns in citizens hands living quite peaceful and happy.

Swedens numbers are current. The fact that they had no guns to defend themselves is the point. Funny how whenever a population is disarmed, imprisonment and death soon follow.

Soon follow? I think WWII might have been before gun control in those countries. And well they have been doing quite well ever since. That is hardly soon.

actually, no....Weimar Germany began taking away guns from people....and then the nazis faced disarmed Jews and dissenters when they started their rise to power...instead of facing Jewish business owners who could fight back, their brown shirts had free reign because they were younger, stronger, in greater numbers and more aggressive....everything that a gun will equalize.....if more Germans were armed then the brown shirts, much like our klan in the south, wouldn't have been as effective at beating their enemies into submission.....

That's old bill. And for obvious reasons won't happen in a country with real freedom and voting rights.

You don't think that could ever happen again.....really?

 

[Brain357]

Denmark. Sweden. Netherlands. Australia....

Denmark and the Netherlands both lost thousands of people to the German death camps. Might want to check your history there. The aboriginals likewise suffered at the hands of those who were armed. Sweden is indeed one of the few countries that hasn't had a mass murderer take control but 16% of the population does indeed own guns, so they are not disarmed are they?

And that has what to do with how many guns they had? That was WWII. And since then there have been many countries with few guns in citizens hands living quite peaceful and happy.

For now......it only took Germany 20 years to go from the Weimar republic to the Death camps of hitler's Germany....20 years......and do you think the Germans of 1917 thought that in 20 years they would be gassing 6 million Jews and millions of other "undesirables".....they were probably like you guys.......never needed a gun so no one else needs one either.....and 20 years later you have 12 million dead......

Germany didnt go from a stable country with real voting rights to that. Name a country that has?

Won't happen in this modern time with cell phones, 24 hour news, Internet.... Our military is the best we have and would never go with any tyrant.

So...Germany was a third world Country before the nazis....What about Belgium, Norway, France...and all the countries invaded by Germany, or Russia, or Japan and Italy........they murdered millions in the countries they invaded....

That is war. What is your point? Guns won't defend you from modern armies. Bombs fall from the sky.

 

[Brain357]

And that has what to do with how many guns they had? That was WWII. And since then there have been many countries with few guns in citizens hands living quite peaceful and happy.

Swedens numbers are current. The fact that they had no guns to defend themselves is the point. Funny how whenever a population is disarmed, imprisonment and death soon follow.

Soon follow? I think WWII might have been before gun control in those countries. And well they have been doing quite well ever since. That is hardly soon.

actually, no....Weimar Germany began taking away guns from people....and then the nazis faced disarmed Jews and dissenters when they started their rise to power...instead of facing Jewish business owners who could fight back, their brown shirts had free reign because they were younger, stronger, in greater numbers and more aggressive....everything that a gun will equalize.....if more Germans were armed then the brown shirts, much like our klan in the south, wouldn't have been as effective at beating their enemies into submission.....

That's old bill. And for obvious reasons won't happen in a country with real freedom and voting rights.

You don't think that could ever happen again.....really?

It's been a long time and lots of countries have few guns. So yes it won't happen. You insult our military if you say they will turn on us.

 

[2aguy]

Denmark and the Netherlands both lost thousands of people to the German death camps. Might want to check your history there. The aboriginals likewise suffered at the hands of those who were armed. Sweden is indeed one of the few countries that hasn't had a mass murderer take control but 16% of the population does indeed own guns, so they are not disarmed are they?

And that has what to do with how many guns they had? That was WWII. And since then there have been many countries with few guns in citizens hands living quite peaceful and happy.

For now......it only took Germany 20 years to go from the Weimar republic to the Death camps of hitler's Germany....20 years......and do you think the Germans of 1917 thought that in 20 years they would be gassing 6 million Jews and millions of other "undesirables".....they were probably like you guys.......never needed a gun so no one else needs one either.....and 20 years later you have 12 million dead......

Germany didnt go from a stable country with real voting rights to that. Name a country that has?

Won't happen in this modern time with cell phones, 24 hour news, Internet.... Our military is the best we have and would never go with any tyrant.

So...Germany was a third world Country before the nazis....What about Belgium, Norway, France...and all the countries invaded by Germany, or Russia, or Japan and Italy........they murdered millions in the countries they invaded....

That is war. What is your point? Guns won't defend you from modern armies. Bombs fall from the sky.

Guns won't defend you from modern armies. Bombs fall from the sky

See, that sounds good when you anti gunners say it but just looking at recent history shows how wrong you are again......we are pulling our troops out of 2 countries with primitive technology...they kept fighting and our people and politicians got tired...and are going home....now imagine our people, armed with weapons guaranteed by the 2nd amendment....we would be able to do much better against our own government or any invading force....every country that resisted the Germans and the Russians, and the Japanese lacked two things, guns and ammo........we want to avoid that by not having to scramble at the last minute as the death camps are being set up....

History has taught one lesson over and over....a disarmed population is vulnerable to strong murderous government.....

We know how a disarmed people fairs against their own government when they start killing them......how about we try the other way next time......and see what happens?

 

[2aguy]

Swedens numbers are current. The fact that they had no guns to defend themselves is the point. Funny how whenever a population is disarmed, imprisonment and death soon follow.

Soon follow? I think WWII might have been before gun control in those countries. And well they have been doing quite well ever since. That is hardly soon.

actually, no....Weimar Germany began taking away guns from people....and then the nazis faced disarmed Jews and dissenters when they started their rise to power...instead of facing Jewish business owners who could fight back, their brown shirts had free reign because they were younger, stronger, in greater numbers and more aggressive....everything that a gun will equalize.....if more Germans were armed then the brown shirts, much like our klan in the south, wouldn't have been as effective at beating their enemies into submission.....

That's old bill. And for obvious reasons won't happen in a country with real freedom and voting rights.

You don't think that could ever happen again.....really?

It's been a long time and lots of countries have few guns. So yes it won't happen. You insult our military if you say they will turn on us.

Sorry....you are delusional...........I won't bet the lives of future generations on your naivete ..........

 

[Ernie S.]

On Monday, Panera Bread became the latest U.S. company to ask customers to leave their guns at home.

The bakery-cafe chain joins Starbucks, Chipotle, Target and a handful of other restaurants and retailers in making such a request, which comes amid an increasingly heated debate over the role of guns in public places.

Panera Asks Customers Not To Bring Guns Into Its Restaurants

Good. More companies are wising up. I like Panera Bread.

From the article -

The companies that have decided to ask customers to leave guns at home have framed the new policy as a request, saying that they do not want to put employees in the position of confronting an armed customer.
...

Supporters argue that the weapons are frightening, and that it is dangerous to ask shoppers and law enforcement officers to distinguish between people carrying guns peacefully and those intending to do harm.

Fine and good but unenforceable.

We've seen toy guns mistaken for the real thing, children killed and shoppers mistaken for shooters. There's no such thing as "carrying guns peacefully". If one carries a gun, they're looking for an opportunity to use it. That is the main reason to carry a gun.

Be that as it may, at the very least, scared nutters should be required to open carry but, as we've seen here, some would defy that law as well.

We have more guns and they have made us all less safe.

That is a lie and you know it.

I carry a gun every day, hoping I never have to use it.

I own a bar. I left my place of business at a little after midnight last night and headed home. At 2AM, I got a call from my very hot, but very feminine bartender. She informed me that someone had called, asking when we closed, saying they were in a town a half hour away. When told we stopped serving at 2AM, their location magically changed to here in Foley. THEN they asked if we had security. She answered that we did, although the man doing security last night is not well trained and although large, is not a fighter type. (regular security guy down with the flu)
A couple minutes later, a customer goes out to walk a petite female to her car and sees 3 people lurking in the bushes just off our north lot. He brings her back in and tells Megan, security and another fellow what's going on. Megan calls me and tells me what's going on.
Henry, a huge black man and a good friend of Doc Holliday's goes out and makes his presence known. He also retrieves his Glock from his truck and comes back in. I arrive in 4 minutes, pull in the lot and make a wide sweep of the bushes with my high beams and flashlight with a Taurus .40 in my hand.
The three were back. One, I'm sure, had been in earlier. They saw me and my gun and took off running.

The fact that at least one had been in Doc's at least once before, makes him recognizable which makes a robbery a very dangerous situation since felons hate witnesses.
As people left, I walked out first, checked the lot and then walked with them to their cars.
At that point, the weapon was no longer concealed. No one freaked out or felt threatened by my gun and all were very thankful I made every effort to keep them safe.
I stayed and help staff clean and close. I got home at 4:20 AM.
So Ludley, Why didn't I kill anyone last night?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The gun debate should be an honest one.

For that to happen, you need to drop out of it.

 

[Brain357]

The gun debate should be an honest one.

For that to happen, you need to drop out of it.

As do you.

 

[Brain357]

I see what you ment now by "deadly". What applications do you see civilians needing a machine gun for? There is only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Based on the number of defenses that is already quite a low number. I don't think you can get much less deadly to criminals than that.

You know the 230 number is probably too low.....when a homicide is changed from murder to justified by a prosecutor or the killer is found innocent in court, the FBI doesn't change the data....so that number is off....probably too low....but still pretty good considering that law abiding gun owners use their guns 1.6 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

It is from the FBI. Not going to find more accurate number. You mean mostly criminals defending themselves as kleck has admitted.

Brain....Kleck did not say self defense deaths are criminals fighting criminals....he most definitely said that back in the 90s when people had their rights violated to carry weapons for self defense, many of them did any way...and he didn't quantify how many of the 2.5 million were that situation anyway....so your using it is decietful.....they were not gang members or drug dealers just average citizens who needed to protect themselves.....and the 238 is not accurate...the FBI does not follow up on homicides and if they stay justifiable or not....so they don't change their numbers....

He said most defenders are involved in criminal activity. That makes them criminals.

And he pointed out that they were carrying guns for protection from criminals and in many cases it was not legal at the time...they were not actual criminals conducting criminal business, just law abiding citizens practising their 2nd amendment rights...and we still don't know how many of the 2.5 million even fit that category.....

No he said they were involved in criminal activity. You are making up the rest to candy coat it.

 

[Brain357]

Soon follow? I think WWII might have been before gun control in those countries. And well they have been doing quite well ever since. That is hardly soon.

actually, no....Weimar Germany began taking away guns from people....and then the nazis faced disarmed Jews and dissenters when they started their rise to power...instead of facing Jewish business owners who could fight back, their brown shirts had free reign because they were younger, stronger, in greater numbers and more aggressive....everything that a gun will equalize.....if more Germans were armed then the brown shirts, much like our klan in the south, wouldn't have been as effective at beating their enemies into submission.....

That's old bill. And for obvious reasons won't happen in a country with real freedom and voting rights.

You don't think that could ever happen again.....really?

It's been a long time and lots of countries have few guns. So yes it won't happen. You insult our military if you say they will turn on us.

Sorry....you are delusional...........I won't bet the lives of future generations on your naivete ..........

Right so why are so many countries with few guns not taken over by tyrants? Sorry but that view is just silly.

 

[EatMorChikin]

[

Firearms are being taken away, little by little. And the criteria for being disqualified are some very minor reasons. Ever heard the frog and the pot of cold water story? It's all happening sorta like that.

Felons can't have guns. Been that way for a long time. You prefer armed criminals?

You have trouble reading? When I imply that the right to purchase is being stripped away for very minor reasons, do you think I am talking about felons? And you use the moniker Brain? The irony in that is astounding.

 

[Brain357]

[

Firearms are being taken away, little by little. And the criteria for being disqualified are some very minor reasons. Ever heard the frog and the pot of cold water story? It's all happening sorta like that.

Felons can't have guns. Been that way for a long time. You prefer armed criminals?

You have trouble reading? When I imply that the right to purchase is being stripped away for very minor reasons, do you think I am talking about felons? And you use the moniker Brain? The irony in that is astounding.

Yes very specific.

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
Puerto Rico....has the strictest gun control in the United States and it's territories...it is an island so you can't just drive illegal guns across the border....and it has the highest murder rate in the world......

PR gun laws - "Reasonable gun control", according go the anti-gun loons
-A license is required to purchase any firearm or ammunition.
-All firearms must be registered with the Puerto Rico Police.
-"Assault weapons" and .50 BMG rifles prohibited.
-Magazine capacity restriction? Yes
-A target shooting license is required to purchase any firearm or ammunition.
-The Commonwealth currently has a "may issue" policy for the issuance of concealed carry permits. In order to obtain one the applicant must already have a target shooting license and must appear before a judge and provide proof of a strong need for a permit. Very few people are issued permits.
-Open carry is prohibited.
-Automatic firearms are prohibited.

Puerto Rico
% of homicides w/ firearms:94.8%
# of gun-related homicides per 100k population: 18.3
800,000 guns, 692 gun murders. 99.9135% of guns not used to commit murder

Clearly, PR gun control laws work.
/sarcasm

 

[EatMorChikin]

[




I carry a gun every day, hoping I never have to use it.

I own a bar. I left my place of business at a little after midnight last night and headed home. At 2AM, I got a call from my very hot, but very feminine bartender. She informed me that someone had called, asking when we closed, saying they were in a town a half hour away. When told we stopped serving at 2AM, their location magically changed to here in Foley. THEN they asked if we had security. She answered that we did, although the man doing security last night is not well trained and although large, is not a fighter type. (regular security guy down with the flu)
A couple minutes later, a customer goes out to walk a petite female to her car and sees 3 people lurking in the bushes just off our north lot. He brings her back in and tells Megan, security and another fellow what's going on. Megan calls me and tells me what's going on.
Henry, a huge black man and a good friend of Doc Holliday's goes out and makes his presence known. He also retrieves his Glock from his truck and comes back in. I arrive in 4 minutes, pull in the lot and make a wide sweep of the bushes with my high beams and flashlight with a Taurus .40 in my hand.
The three were back. One, I'm sure, had been in earlier. They saw me and my gun and took off running.

The fact that at least one had been in Doc's at least once before, makes him recognizable which makes a robbery a very dangerous situation since felons hate witnesses.
As people left, I walked out first, checked the lot and then walked with them to their cars.
At that point, the weapon was no longer concealed. No one freaked out or felt threatened by my gun and all were very thankful I made every effort to keep them safe.
I stayed and help staff clean and close. I got home at 4:20 AM.
So Ludley, Why didn't I kill anyone last night?

I'm glad everything worked out, and there is a reasonable chance they wont be back. They will move on to an easier target.

I once used my Sig P226 to deter a situation at my home, and I never had to fire a shot. They guy tried calling the cops on me, saying I threatened him with a gun. Yeah no shit Sherlock, you walked into my home not knowing I was home. They all gathered outside, and called me asking me to come out. I refused, knowing full well the first thing they would do after that is enter and take my arms.

After it was all said and done, and I talked to someone higher up on the phone the situation became diffused and all the follow up from that point was handled by phone. The guy was built like an offensive lineman, and I am not that big of a guy. He was someone I sort of knew but was not friends with, and he had no business in my home uninvited.

 

[Brain357]

[




I carry a gun every day, hoping I never have to use it.

I own a bar. I left my place of business at a little after midnight last night and headed home. At 2AM, I got a call from my very hot, but very feminine bartender. She informed me that someone had called, asking when we closed, saying they were in a town a half hour away. When told we stopped serving at 2AM, their location magically changed to here in Foley. THEN they asked if we had security. She answered that we did, although the man doing security last night is not well trained and although large, is not a fighter type. (regular security guy down with the flu)
A couple minutes later, a customer goes out to walk a petite female to her car and sees 3 people lurking in the bushes just off our north lot. He brings her back in and tells Megan, security and another fellow what's going on. Megan calls me and tells me what's going on.
Henry, a huge black man and a good friend of Doc Holliday's goes out and makes his presence known. He also retrieves his Glock from his truck and comes back in. I arrive in 4 minutes, pull in the lot and make a wide sweep of the bushes with my high beams and flashlight with a Taurus .40 in my hand.
The three were back. One, I'm sure, had been in earlier. They saw me and my gun and took off running.

The fact that at least one had been in Doc's at least once before, makes him recognizable which makes a robbery a very dangerous situation since felons hate witnesses.
As people left, I walked out first, checked the lot and then walked with them to their cars.
At that point, the weapon was no longer concealed. No one freaked out or felt threatened by my gun and all were very thankful I made every effort to keep them safe.
I stayed and help staff clean and close. I got home at 4:20 AM.
So Ludley, Why didn't I kill anyone last night?

I'm glad everything worked out, and there is a reasonable chance they wont be back. They will move on to an easier target.

I once used my Sig P226 to deter a situation at my home, and I never had to fire a shot. They guy tried calling the cops on me, saying I threatened him with a gun. Yeah no shit Sherlock, you walked into my home not knowing I was home. They all gathered outside, and called me asking me to come out. I refused, knowing full well the first thing they would do after that is enter and take my arms.

After it was all said and done, and I talked to someone higher up on the phone the situation became diffused and all the follow up from that point was handled by phone. The guy was built like an offensive lineman, and I am not that big of a guy. He was someone I sort of knew but was not friends with, and he had no business in my home uninvited.

Somewhere between his story and yours is the truth....

 

[EatMorChikin]

You have trouble reading? When I imply that the right to purchase is being stripped away for very minor reasons, do you think I am talking about felons? And you use the moniker Brain? The irony in that is astounding.

Yes very specific.

The only specifics needed, is that you can lose those rights without being a felon, or committing a violent crime. Cops try and take them from people who are legally carrying all the time. And at that point it is the owner who is having to fight to get legal property returned.