The return of deathpanels?

[bigrebnc1775]

Are you talking about this type of republican death panel in Arizona, or some other type of death panel?

November 17, 2010
Organ Transplants Denied in Arizona after Medicaid Agency's Budget Cut

Budget cuts in Arizona's legislature resulted in a man leaving a hospital Tuesday after the state Medicaid agency refused to pay for a life-saving liver transplant.

Francisco Felix, the Hepatitis C patient who was denied the transplant, and other low-income patients in Arizona have been refused such necessary procedures after lawmakers cut funding for the agency, known as the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, or AHCCCS, CBS News affiliate KPHO-TV in Phoenix reports.

Starting Oct. 1, the agency began reversing its approval of organ transplants for 98 low-income patients, according to NPR. The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

Without funding from the state, Felix needed to raise $200,000 to pay for the liver transplant. The liver was directly donated to Felix from a family friend who died suddenly Monday. But because Felix's family could not raise enough to cover the cost of the operation, the liver went to another patient.

Organ Transplants Denied in Arizona after Medicaid Agency's Budget Cut - Health Blog - CBS News

The repubs could have saved this guys life, but for 200K, I guess there were some potholes that needed filling.

So, what exactly is this new regulation going to do, exactly?

Your CBS source is a bit misleading

Budget cuts in Arizona's legislature resulted in a man leaving a hospital Tuesday after the state Medicaid agency refused to pay for a life.

Now for the rest of the story

The Federal government provides a portion of the funding for Medicaid and sets guidelines for the program. States also have choices in how they design their program, so Medicaid varies state by state (and may have a different name your state).
Medicaid | HealthCare.gov
Thanks for proving the point about the federal government death panels.

 

[finebead]

Are you talking about this type of republican death panel in Arizona, or some other type of death panel?

November 17, 2010
Organ Transplants Denied in Arizona after Medicaid Agency's Budget Cut

Budget cuts in Arizona's legislature resulted in a man leaving a hospital Tuesday after the state Medicaid agency refused to pay for a life-saving liver transplant.

Francisco Felix, the Hepatitis C patient who was denied the transplant, and other low-income patients in Arizona have been refused such necessary procedures after lawmakers cut funding for the agency, known as the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, or AHCCCS, CBS News affiliate KPHO-TV in Phoenix reports.

Starting Oct. 1, the agency began reversing its approval of organ transplants for 98 low-income patients, according to NPR. The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

Without funding from the state, Felix needed to raise $200,000 to pay for the liver transplant. The liver was directly donated to Felix from a family friend who died suddenly Monday. But because Felix's family could not raise enough to cover the cost of the operation, the liver went to another patient.

Organ Transplants Denied in Arizona after Medicaid Agency's Budget Cut - Health Blog - CBS News

The repubs could have saved this guys life, but for 200K, I guess there were some potholes that needed filling.

So, what exactly is this new regulation going to do, exactly?

Your CBS source is a bit misleading

Budget cuts in Arizona's legislature resulted in a man leaving a hospital Tuesday after the state Medicaid agency refused to pay for a life.

Now for the rest of the story

The Federal government provides a portion of the funding for Medicaid and sets guidelines for the program. States also have choices in how they design their program, so Medicaid varies state by state (and may have a different name your state).
Medicaid | HealthCare.gov
Thanks for proving the point about the federal government death panels.

The arizona legislature cut funding to the state agency that previously approved the transplant, and the state notified the patient he had subsequently been rejected. Those actions had NOTHING to do with federal guidelines, it was the arizona republican legislature and repub governor.

The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Are you talking about this type of republican death panel in Arizona, or some other type of death panel?


Organ Transplants Denied in Arizona after Medicaid Agency's Budget Cut - Health Blog - CBS News

The repubs could have saved this guys life, but for 200K, I guess there were some potholes that needed filling.

So, what exactly is this new regulation going to do, exactly?

Your CBS source is a bit misleading

Budget cuts in Arizona's legislature resulted in a man leaving a hospital Tuesday after the state Medicaid agency refused to pay for a life.

Now for the rest of the story

The Federal government provides a portion of the funding for Medicaid and sets guidelines for the program. States also have choices in how they design their program, so Medicaid varies state by state (and may have a different name your state).
Medicaid | HealthCare.gov
Thanks for proving the point about the federal government death panels.

The arizona legislature cut funding to the state agency that previously approved the transplant, and the state notified the patient he had subsequently been rejected. Those actions had NOTHING to do with federal guidelines, it was the arizona republican legislature and repub governor.

The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

HUMMM.....

The Federal government provides a portion of the funding for Medicaid and sets guidelines for the program.

 

[Greenbeard]

The Federal government provides a portion of the funding for Medicaid and sets guidelines for the program.

Some guidelines (particularly around children's benefits), not all guidelines, chief.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Federal government provides a portion of the funding for Medicaid and sets guidelines for the program.

Some guidelines (particularly around children's benefits), not all guidelines, chief.

So now you are saying that the federal government doesn't have a say over a state even when the federal govenment says it does? It doesn't say some it says guidelines as in all set ules. and procedures

 

[Greenbeard]

So now you are saying that the federal government doesn't have a say over a state even when the federal govenment says it does? It doesn't say some it says guidelines as in all set ules. and procedures

You understand that there are 51 unique Medicaid programs in the United States, right? Each of them operating differently under a set of base rules set by the feds (though numerous waivers are available to states and numerous Medicaid programs are taking advantage of them). Medicaid is a program administered and, to a large extent, designed by individual states. While it's funny you're apparently trying to suggest the coverage decisions made by the AZ legislature somehow came down from the federal government, it's absurd even by your standards.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So now you are saying that the federal government doesn't have a say over a state even when the federal govenment says it does? It doesn't say some it says guidelines as in all set ules. and procedures

You understand that there are 51 unique Medicaid programs in the United States, right? Each of them operating differently under a set of base rules set by the feds (though numerous waivers are available to states and numerous Medicaid programs are taking advantage of them). Medicaid is a program administered and, to a large extent, designed by individual states. While it's funny you're apparently trying to suggest the coverage decisions made by the AZ legislature somehow came down from the federal government, it's absurd even by your standards.

You understand that there are 51 unique Medicaid programs in the United States, right?

That are under the guidelines of the Federal grovenment.

While it's funny you're apparently trying to suggest the coverage decisions made by the AZ legislature somehow came down from the federal government, it's absurd even by your standards

What's absurd is that now you are saying that a state can over rule the federal government. Do you switch your position much? The federal Government partialy funds medicade and they have guidelines that must be followed. Are you now a states righter when the subject fits your argument?

 

[Greenbeard]

What's absurd is that now you are saying that a state can over rule the federal government. Do you switch your position much? The federal Government partialy funds medicade and they have guidelines that must be followed. Are you now a states righter when the subject fits your argument?

This isn't a question of ideology, this is about how Medicaid works. And states have significant latitude over programmatic aspects of Medicaid, which is why every state's program is different (sometimes substantially so). Specifically, which guidelines are you referring to and what is their relevance to this thread?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What's absurd is that now you are saying that a state can over rule the federal government. Do you switch your position much? The federal Government partialy funds medicade and they have guidelines that must be followed. Are you now a states righter when the subject fits your argument?

This isn't a question of ideology, this is about how Medicaid works. And states have significant latitude over programmatic aspects of Medicaid, which is why every state's program is different (sometimes substantially so). Specifically, which guidelines are you referring to and what is their relevance to this thread?

Really? this is how medicade works?are you a states righters when it suits you?

 

[Greenbeard]

Really? this is how medicade works?

Yes.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Really? this is how medicade works?

Yes.

Federal government guidlines diagree with you

 

[finebead]

Really? this is how medicade works?

Yes.

Federal government guidlines diagree with you

What is it about this that you don't understand from the article I posted?

The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

The repubs cut funding at the state level, and that is why 98 individuals who were previously approved for organ transplants, were later told they could not have the transplant.

There you have it, republican death panel (called the arizona state legislature), pure and simple.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yes.

Federal government guidlines diagree with you

What is it about this that you don't understand from the article I posted?

The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

The repubs cut funding at the state level, and that is why 98 individuals who were previously approved for organ transplants, were later told they could not have the transplant.

There you have it, republican death panel (called the arizona state legislature), pure and simple.

And what is it that you do not undestand. they dd with complete approval of the federal government. which also gives the set guidelines and procedures that must be followed.

 

[finebead]

Federal government guidlines diagree with you

What is it about this that you don't understand from the article I posted?

The abrupt change came from a series of budget-cutting measures taken by the Republican-controlled state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

The repubs cut funding at the state level, and that is why 98 individuals who were previously approved for organ transplants, were later told they could not have the transplant.

There you have it, republican death panel (called the arizona state legislature), pure and simple.

And what is it that you do not undestand. they dd with complete approval of the federal government. which also gives the set guidelines and procedures that must be followed.

Yes, "THEY DD". It WAS the arizona legislature that prepared the budget, and they could have taken 200K out of the highway funds and provided the transplant if they wanted, and the feds would have approved that also. So, it was the arizona legislature that voted to cut the funding (when other funds could have been cut), and the arizona legislature and gov. who told this guy there was not money to have his transplant, so the arizona legislature is the death panel.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

"Death Panels" were never about end of life counselling. The term was about those who will decide who gets what treatment in 'universal health care'. Those panels exist in every country that has 'universal health care'. Read the original research... from Dr Emanuel.... brother of Rahm. That research refers to children under the age of two as 'not fully developed humans'. Charming man.

So? Universal Health Care wasn't what got passed.

This subject was discussed during the phone-in session on C-Span's Washington Journal this morning, and I was pleased to know that only a scant few people STILL believed that clause is all about some panel of government employees arbitrarily deciding to needs to die and who doesn't.

I can't believe you said that and still quoted her.

Its about what treatments will be made availble to whom and how the government is going to go about deciding this. So if the government deems that my dad won't contribute enough to society to get his heart surgery then they may not give it to him. Sure they aren't killing him but they might as well as without the surgery he would die.

Get it now?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What is it about this that you don't understand from the article I posted?


The repubs cut funding at the state level, and that is why 98 individuals who were previously approved for organ transplants, were later told they could not have the transplant.

There you have it, republican death panel (called the arizona state legislature), pure and simple.

And what is it that you do not undestand. they dd with complete approval of the federal government. which also gives the set guidelines and procedures that must be followed.

Yes, "THEY DD". It WAS the arizona legislature that prepared the budget, and they could have taken 200K out of the highway funds and provided the transplant if they wanted, and the feds would have approved that also. So, it was the arizona legislature that voted to cut the funding (when other funds could have been cut), and the arizona legislature and gov. who told this guy there was not money to have his transplant, so the arizona legislature is the death panel.

Hw could they have taken 200K from the highway fund when the highway fund money came from the stimulus?

 

[finebead]

"Death Panels" were never about end of life counselling. The term was about those who will decide who gets what treatment in 'universal health care'. Those panels exist in every country that has 'universal health care'. Read the original research... from Dr Emanuel.... brother of Rahm. That research refers to children under the age of two as 'not fully developed humans'. Charming man.

So? Universal Health Care wasn't what got passed.

This subject was discussed during the phone-in session on C-Span's Washington Journal this morning, and I was pleased to know that only a scant few people STILL believed that clause is all about some panel of government employees arbitrarily deciding to needs to die and who doesn't.

I can't believe you said that and still quoted her.

Its about what treatments will be made availble to whom and how the government is going to go about deciding this. So if the government deems that my dad won't contribute enough to society to get his heart surgery then they may not give it to him. Sure they aren't killing him but they might as well as without the surgery he would die.

Get it now?

The nation is going broke (is broke today) and medical is a big part of it, and will be a bigger part each year. We don't have the money to provide the highest tech most aggressive treatment to everyone (and much of that is due to drug companies price gouging, and lack of competition in the system).

We need to provide the most care to the most people, recognizing that EVERYONE WILL DIE. There is no suspension of that truth. It is just a question of time.

Do you have a system you want to propose? We're all interested. Or, do you just want to have your Dad treated and the hell with everyone else, and the heck with any system. Do you think anyone should be able to ask for and receive any treatment they want anytime? How do you propose to pay for that?

We have to make tradeoffs. call it rationing if you want. Today we have death panels, call them the insurance companies who say who can get coverage, how much you will have to pay (if they will insure you at all, and they WON'T if you have a pre-existing condition and you lost your job), and if you are insured, what procedures they will allow or not allow. There is your current death panel.

 

[finebead]

And what is it that you do not undestand. they dd with complete approval of the federal government. which also gives the set guidelines and procedures that must be followed.

Yes, "THEY DD". It WAS the arizona legislature that prepared the budget, and they could have taken 200K out of the highway funds and provided the transplant if they wanted, and the feds would have approved that also. So, it was the arizona legislature that voted to cut the funding (when other funds could have been cut), and the arizona legislature and gov. who told this guy there was not money to have his transplant, so the arizona legislature is the death panel.

Hw could they have taken 200K from the highway fund when the highway fund money came from the stimulus?

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yes, "THEY DD". It WAS the arizona legislature that prepared the budget, and they could have taken 200K out of the highway funds and provided the transplant if they wanted, and the feds would have approved that also. So, it was the arizona legislature that voted to cut the funding (when other funds could have been cut), and the arizona legislature and gov. who told this guy there was not money to have his transplant, so the arizona legislature is the death panel.

Hw could they have taken 200K from the highway fund when the highway fund money came from the stimulus?

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

 

[finebead]

Hw could they have taken 200K from the highway fund when the highway fund money came from the stimulus?

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

Post it. The rule of the stimulus by obama does NOT say states cannot spend any of their own dollars on highways. Show me. I have posted my facts about the arizona republican legislature cutting their medicaid funds and then disapproving previously approved transplants, becoming another rich guy "death panel". Show me your rule of the stimulus set by obama, since that is your supposed justification.