The Reason for Poverty Among Blacks is Not Racism

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The really funny thing about that is I grew up near MacAurther Park near Tommys. Compton was a much nicer area than I lived in then (that was the mid-sixties and early seventies) The last time I was in Compton, about 2008 I think, it was a hell hole of run down houses and small apartment buildings with gang members standing around. The area I grew up in is mostly Latino now with some gangs, but most people are working, the southern area near the Park is part of Koreatown and is thriving.
Those covenants were a bad thing, but they existed. What you refuse to acknowledge is that the Irish, Italians, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs, Greeks, Germans and many other groups were all discriminated against in the past, but are all thriving now and part of society. They all refused to allow discrimination by intolerant people define them.

Are the

• Irish people Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Italians Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Eastern Europeans Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Jews Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Japanese Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Chinese Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Arabs Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Greeks Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
• Germans Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not

A timeline of legislation that only applied to black people to their detriment that DID NOT apply to white people
TimelineJS Embed

 

[IM2]

The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today. You bring up your past to excuse your failures. Big difference. You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.

That victim shit is used by racists. Your families have not faced continuing racis. You do know what continuing means don't you? It means that this discussion is not just about the past, but about YOUR RACISM RIGHT NOW.

Your are a loser white male stuck in a Cleveland slum. I am a black man who owns my home in a fairly nice hood. You are uneducated, I am college educated. I have helped build several non profits. You can't even drive a truck anymore, but you're talking about excuses for failure to people who have not failed. The only person making excuses here are you, lisa and other whites.

You want to talk about resentment some whites have? I'll be glad to talk about it. So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color? A simple yes or no answer will suffice. Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people?

You have resentment. And when you look at crime, the higher numbers belong to whites. But you racists have an excuse for that, you'll just take the number of offender divide them by a entire population then muliply it by 100,000 then claim that's the correct way to determine activities that happen one on one. Then after you do that, you whine about how you are an individual. Whites aren't known to be any of the things you posted. You are just white racist trash.

People of different races can live together in peace. People of different cultures can't. This is why whites can successfully live together with all kinds of different people with no problems. We can live with Asians, we can live with people of middle-east decent, we can live with people of Hispanic decent. Why is that? Because these other groups of people don't move in and close our stores down with theft. They don't move in and destroy our schools. They don't move in and toss garbage all over the sidewalks and streets. They don't make it unsafe to walk to your convenient store at night. They don't destroy our property values. They don't force cities to close down public events because you can't assemble any number of these people without it breaking out into gang fights or riots.

Whites have gangs dumb ass. And 1-6-2021 was not done by blacks. Whites have fucked up plenty of public events. We live in America, therefore we are part on the American culture. You substitute culture for race so you can lie about your racism. If you want to play that way, white culture has been the biggest problem and it is because of whites like you.

So if you say that the resentment is because of skin color, it's just as much of a lie as saying your failures are because of your skin color. But if you say the resentment comes from how blacks conduct themselves, then you are dead on. How can anybody not be resentful when their property lost value instead of gaining value in the past 20 years or so? How can anybody not be resentful when they have to travel to the other side of town where it's white just to go shopping at a major store?

The resentment is because of race. You travel across town because of retail redlining. White racism is the root cause of our problem. You're problems come from you being ignorant and racist. Your property has not lost value and the claim that blacks cause property values to decrease is an old unproven racist piece of crap. You're a racist Ray. Own it.

 

[IM2]

NewsVine_Mariyam

And P.S. That was another sanctimonious slap when you said my upbringing was lacking. Maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. I don’t go around calling people “evil” for wanting to abolish race-based admissions policies or pointing out the two simple steps to move from poverty.

I was raised well, with good values. One of the things I learned (besides not to call people “evil” for disagreeing with me) is that you don’t go around making excuses for poor choices and blaming other people for one’s own actions.

I would suggest you take a good, hard look at yourself. Clearly, something in your upbringing was lacking, or you wouldn’t attack decent people with horrific accusations for making valid points.

Now we are done. We can discuss the correct decision the SCOTUS makes next year when it determines that “gerrymandering” admissions processes to arrive at a certain racial outcome is a violation of the equal protection clause. It’s as clear as black and white.

You're a racist. Your upbringing WAS lacking.

 

[IM2]

And YOU keep saying the same thing over and over, calling me a racist, and asking the same question about why I don’t “lecture” the poor whites in Appalachia. I’ve told you a zillion times that the POINT of this thread is that it isn’t racism that keeps the black subclass poor, but their poor choices - which are the same poor choices as poor whites. The difference is that the whites aren’t blaming racism, and blacks like you are.

And where did I mock black people? You are so deluded with thinking people who refuse to hold black responsible for their own choices are racist or mocking. With that line of thinking, no blacks are ever responsible for the way they turn out because…..racism.

Also, because of your delusions and insistence that people who don’t excuse away every failure among poor blacks are racist, you got mixed up with the years. But yes….10 years to rise from poverty to the middle class in my family. No help. Dad went from being a 20-year-old college student (no babies….) living in a tenement to being the owner of a house in the suburbs at age 30. The two generations refers to the amount of time blacks have had to take advantage of favoritism in college admissions (and plenty have), and if a minority of blacks are still poor after that, that’s their fault.

I’ll end with this. This will be the fifth time I’ve asked, and younahve skirted the question the previous four times: If racism is why 25% of blacks are stuck in poverty, then how are 75% NOT in poverty?

(And stop with your sanctimonious ”I know what you are“ remarks. For someone accusing others of acting superior, you sure hold yourself up to be a better person than I - and you are not.)

You are a racist.

 

[IM2]

She's here but probably in a different topic. It gets old repeating the same things over and over again to the same people and they never seem to get it or understand.

We understand that we are talking to some dumb ass racists and YOU are the ones who don't get it.

 

[IM2]

Did any of you racists get out of high school? Or did they just not teach history where you guys live?

 

[Lisa558]

You're not a decent person Lisa, why can't you just admit that you don't think much of black people. It's not like we don't know it. And I'm not saying that you should or have to but when it shows in you the way it does, I don''t understand the point of denying it.

And spare me the bullshit about how you were well raised with good values. If that is true how has it escaped your attention that your constant denigration of black people, especially those less fortunate than you shows your true colors and they are not "beautiful".

If you don't like being called evil then maybe you should check yourself and quit telling lies about others as if they were the gospel truth. I have shown you repeatedly how and why the circumstances which result in people living in poverty are not exact between white people and black people in the United States of America yet your inability to even examine what I'm telling you or to read any of the historical documentation I've provided says you're either stubborn, a fake persona who enjoys being hostile towards black people or stupid. Quite likely all of the above.

And by the way, you lost what little credibility you had left when you attempted to color me as an "angry black woman":

Close your eyes and picture an angry Black woman. It only took an instant to visualize her, right? The image is ready-made: one hand on her hip, one finger pointed in your face, head and neck swiveling. You can probably hear her Black English. She probably strikes you as intimidating. She's overly sensitive and mannish. She's easy to piss off and difficult to calm down. She's aggressive and irrational, too loud and too much.​

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She's also not real. Let me repeat: The image of the angry Black woman (ABW) that surfaced so easily in your mind is as fake as a fairy tale. She's imaginary, but she's by no means an accident. She — the trope — is meant to control and undermine Black women, to punish us when we express even slight and reasonable indignation, pain, or irritation (let alone rage), and to protect a status quo in which Black women and girls are often treated as interchangeable, irrational problems instead of human beings with very reasonable complaints.​

​

The angry Black woman character goes way back. I see its roots in chattel slavery, when expressions of Black female anger, particularly toward white people, were profoundly justified but also impermissible. With a culture and economy that depended on viciously controlling Black women's bodies and lives, it made good economic sense to portray Black female anger as unreasonable and ugly instead of as a rational response to subordination and humiliation.​

​

​

The trope found its way into minstrel shows, where white men donned blackface and fatsuits to play boorish and brooding caricatures of Black women. It moved from that 18th- and 19th-century white imagination to 20th-century entertainment, showing up in dramas such as Gone with the Wind and comedies such as Amos 'n Andy. Popular entertainment from the 1990s, including The Jerry Springer Show and Ricki Lake — which I consumed as a child — helped reinforce the stereotype.​

​

In recent years, our culture has stapled the belittling ABW label to Michelle Obama, Serena Williams, Kamala Harris, Shonda Rhimes, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, Meghan Markle, Jemele Hill, and many others in response to the kind of truth-telling, creativity, and demand for self-respect we frequently applaud in others. Each of these women has hard-won power and an authoritative voice — but we, as a culture, don't often want to hear what Black women have to say.​

https://www.shape.com/lifestyle/mind-and-body/mental-health/angry-black-woman​

I don’t know where to start with all your bullshit.

1) Saying that racism is not to blame for the minority of blacks being in poverty - but their own choices, just as it is with whites - is not denigrating them. It’s pointing out that racism isn’t the cause.

2) Odd how you accuse me of feeling superior, and then you lash out - since you feel you can judge people - that my background is lacking. YOUR background is lacking. People raised right don‘t go around calling people evil, and when that is pointed out to them, double down and insist…..yes, you ARE evil. What kind of decent person with a proper upbringing does that?

3) And we are not allowed to describe any black person as angry? You are certainly angry, lashing out at people with nasty accusations simply because they fail to submit to your beliefs?

Finally, for the sixth (6th!) time: if racism is why 25% of blacks are in poverty, then why are 75% of blacks NOT in poverty?

 

[Lisa558]

Quit patting yourselves on the backs, you all aren't special and certainly no better than anyone else, in spite of your white supremacist erroneous beliefs.

Again, pointing out that people who do not have babies as teens and instead complete their schooling - whether white or black - does not make one a white supremacist.

 

[Lisa558]

The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today. You bring up your past to excuse your failures. Big difference. You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.

You want to talk about resentment some whites have? I'll be glad to talk about it. So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color? A simple yes or no answer will suffice. Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people?

People of different races can live together in peace. People of different cultures can't. This is why whites can successfully live together with all kinds of different people with no problems. We can live with Asians, we can live with people of middle-east decent, we can live with people of Hispanic decent. Why is that? Because these other groups of people don't move in and close our stores down with theft. They don't move in and destroy our schools. They don't move in and toss garbage all over the sidewalks and streets. They don't make it unsafe to walk to your convenient store at night. They don't destroy our property values. They don't force cities to close down public events because you can't assemble any number of these people without it breaking out into gang fights or riots.

So if you say that the resentment is because of skin color, it's just as much of a lie as saying your failures are because of your skin color. But if you say the resentment comes from how blacks conduct themselves, then you are dead on. How can anybody not be resentful when their property lost value instead of gaining value in the past 20 years or so? How can anybody not be resentful when they have to travel to the other side of town where it's white just to go shopping at a major store?

Exactly. But Vine is so angry (oops….not allowed to described a black person as angry, she tells me) at whites who point out that blacks can and do rise from poverty due to their own choices that she can’t decipher the difference between us talking about our poor family backgrounds and her talking about her family background.

And my family background runs more parallel to what we are talking about in this thread: impoverished, persecuted grandparents who suffered horrible the bigotry against their people, and yet all their kids still managed to graduate from college. How so? Because they knew THEY and they alone were responsible for how their lives turned out, and they made the right choices.

And if I might circle back to upbringing, since Vine in her superior wisdom saw fit to criticize MINE - people who are brought up well have learned that you don’t blame other people for your own mistakes,

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.

Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:

1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently. Double up, even, because a pregnancy at this stage of life will likely result in a life of financial struggle. Thus, your chance of an unwanted pregnancy drops from “probably” to about 1 in 200.

2) Unencumbered by a baby, complete high school and then use a Pell Grant to get a free community college education focused on a vocational track. That right there moves you into the lower-middle class.

That’s it. Race is not a factor. In fact, the only two poor people I interact with on a consistent basis are white women both had babies (one at 15 and one at 17) and did not complete high school.

 

[Lisa558]

View attachment 638875

What in the world is your point? That a middle class family had babies? Nobody on this thead said that blacks and whites shouldn’t marry. That’s how White Suoremacists think, and nobody here is one,

You leftists need to stop accusing people of being racists simply because they point out that making good choices is the way out of poverty, for blacks and whites alike.

You know who you sanctimonious liberals, who have erroneously convinced themselves that good, decent people are racists simply because they don’t agree with liberalism, remind me of?Javert in Les Miz. He had convinced himself that his adversary, Jon Valjean, was some awful, evil criminal - and he devoted his life to capturing him and punishing him for the person (he thought) he was. Then when he finally saw who Valjean actually was - a decent person - the pain of realizing that he had wasted his life on a demon that existed only in his mind - that he couldn’t live with it.

 

[Lisa558]

Wow Ray, that's a lot of excuses for someone who claims to have all of the answers. Here's a scan of my Florida permit:
View attachment 638802

If you Google the phone number above it will take you to this page:

View attachment 638807

Why would I have a Florida concealed carry permit in my possession if it hadn't been issued to me?

This is the funny part though

That's "Mrs Ms. CCWs holder numbering 5"

I'll go you one better. By YOUR logic and the way you erroneously tied having a CCW license with the right to self defense, if we use the inverse of this situation, people WITHOUT a CCW license would have NO right to self defense. And everyone knows that's not true, so you want to rethink your position or at least your explanation BEFORE you start working on your legal analysis as a non-attorney?

The REASON you believe what you do, that Martin's killing falls within the lawful parameters of the self-defense laws and that Zimmerman was somehow justified in his reaction, is because our alleged "justice" system has sanctioned not just this killing but millions prior to it. That's why you believe it's okay for the police and others to kill black people for disobedience instead of because a valid imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death was made. It is also why black people are automatically viewed as threats to grease the skids for the allegations that will ultimately be made that "I was in fear for my life". And our courts have said this is okay.

In the three years I have been here I have given you all a lot of leeway when it comes to your beliefs, rancor and open hostilities towards the black people here and apparently elsewhere. There is no reason not to believe that if you are so mistaken about one thing and cling so fervently to said belief IN SPITE of being shown information to the contrary, that you will do so as well in other areas as well.

Wow. More sanctimony from the woman who goes around accusing others of feeling superior.

YOU are telling Ray why he believes what he believes? Do you even hear the air of superiority that you reveal with that comment?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Exactly. But Vine is so angry (oops….not allowed to described a black person as angry, she tells me) at whites who point out that blacks can and do rise from poverty due to their own choices that she can’t decipher the difference between us talking about our poor family backgrounds and her talking about her family background.

And my family background runs more parallel to what we are talking about in this thread: impoverished, persecuted grandparents who suffered horrible the bigotry against their people, and yet all their kids still managed to graduate from college. How so? Because they knew THEY and they alone were responsible for how their lives turned out, and they made the right choices.

And if I might circle back to upbringing, since Vine in her superior wisdom saw fit to criticize MINE - people who are brought up well have learned that you don’t blame other people for your own mistakes,

As the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

When people came to this country (and still do) they immediately went into action. They found jobs, worked a lot of hours, switched jobs if another paid better, some even went without televisions and phones, and of course took public transportation everywhere they went unless they were fortunate enough to have a single car in the family.

With their heavy accents they were looked down upon by employers of different ethnicity. Their children attended school and the parents were strict on learning. They themselves took night classes to learn our language. They would likely never be financially successful, but that didn't matter as long as they had the opportunity to advance themselves, an option that their former country never offered them.

The point I'm making is that people who came here from places of no opportunity took advantage of every possible thing they could get their hands on. Did blacks do that when laws were created in their favor? Some did of course. They are called Uncle Tom's by their own people because they did. But others sat back to dwell on their past wallowing in their own pity instead of saying they did every possible thing to advance their life. Now a few generations later, they still are.

My father found a jack of all trades handyman. They became friends throughout the years because of their shared interest in construction and household repairs. My father calls him to do work that I could do, but I understand he's only looking for an excuse to have the guy come over just to see him. I hired him a few times myself when my father could get a hold of the guy. It's very difficult because he does good work at a more than reasonable price.

This guy is around my age so I know by the time he became an adult he never faced any real discrimination. Now nearing retirement he's loaded with money. My father would tell me about all the kinds of cars he owns. In spite of his success, he's still hard to get a hold of because he's so damn busy. He'll probably work until he dies because he just loves working. He didn't let Jim Crow, slavery, the excuse of discrimination stop him. I think if he had the education or interest in finances he'd probably be a multi-millionaire today.

 

[Lisa558]

As the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

When people came to this country (and still do) they immediately went into action. They found jobs, worked a lot of hours, switched jobs if another paid better, some even went without televisions and phones, and of course took public transportation everywhere they went unless they were fortunate enough to have a single car in the family.

With their heavy accents they were looked down upon by employers of different ethnicity. Their children attended school and the parents were strict on learning. They themselves took night classes to learn our language. They would likely never be financially successful, but that didn't matter as long as they had the opportunity to advance themselves, an option that their former country never offered them.

The point I'm making is that people who came here from places of no opportunity took advantage of every possible thing they could get their hands on. Did blacks do that when laws were created in their favor? Some did of course. They are called Uncle Tom's by their own people because they did. But others sat back to dwell on their past wallowing in their own pity instead of saying they did every possible thing to advance their life. Now a few generations later, they still are.

My father found a jack of all trades handyman. They became friends throughout the years because of their shared interest in construction and household repairs. My father calls him to do work that I could do, but I understand he's only looking for an excuse to have the guy come over just to see him. I hired him a few times myself when my father could get a hold of the guy. It's very difficult because he does good work at a more than reasonable price.

This guy is around my age so I know by the time he became an adult he never faced any real discrimination. Now nearing retirement he's loaded with money. My father would tell me about all the kinds of cars he owns. In spite of his success, he's still hard to get a hold of because he's so damn busy. He'll probably work until he dies because he just loves working. He didn't let Jim Crow, slavery, the excuse of discrimination stop him. I think if he had the education or interest in finances he'd probably be a multi-millionaire today.

You have it so completely on target.

I use my grandparents as an example, but of course they are representative of millions who arrived around the same time: poor, uneducated, not even speaking the language. But they immediately got jobs, often in sweatshops working 12 hours a day - grateful that they were in a country that allowed opportunities, and moving beyond the discrimination, bigotry, and/or limited opportunities of their previous countries.

Our families were thankful simply for a chance, and that the old ways we’re behind them. Blacks today have been given FAVORITISM over whites, since the late 70s, especially in terms of admission to college, but also in terms of jobs in liberal cities. The federal government is notorious for this - giving black hires and promotions priority over whites.

And as you note, many blacks have taken advantage of this. The black people near me shopping in upscale malls, eating in fancy steakhouses, and buying large colonial homes are often two-income government emoloyees. Others are doctors and lawyers, more likely than not benefitting from the lowered standards of admission to these programs.

Now some blacks did NOT take advantage of the favoritism in admissions. They did not take out Pell Grants for a free community college degree. They did not use birth control in high school (or better yet, refrain from sex since an unwanted pregnancy can derail one’s life at that age). IOW, they made the wrong choices - same as whites who remain stuck in poverty. Blaming it on racism is just plain wrong, and demonizing people who point it out is even worse.

 

[JoeB131]

Paul, I'd recommend you get help, but I can't think of a therapist I dislike enough to wish you on.

So you can read people's minds then ?

Like all white supremacists you put forward arguments that are the opposite of social science, the scientific method begins with a hypothesis and then examines all the evidence, for and against that hypothesis, without presuming to know what the data will suggest in the end. White supremacists, begin with an unshakeable belief - black people are dangerous and out to harm whites and then find any evidence they can that fits their hypothesis.

Simple logic, One person does something on the spur of the moment. Five people making repeated decisions is a conspiracy. Is this what you are really defending, five people who kidnapped a couple, repeatedly raped them and then murdered them?

You're just like @Ray From Cleveland and @Lisa558 in fact your worse, at least they're kinda upfront and honest about.

Your just one of those white supreamacist I used to debate with in college, the ones that try so hard to sound and come across as intelligent but in reality they just masquerade their internal chaos into a form of rationality

You're not proud of what you are: A white racist defending the rights of the white race.

Why you try to deny it ? When at the same time you're trying to prove your racist point “factually”

Actually, I'm the first one to admit that I grew up in a racist society, and have to constantly evaluate my attitudes. It's called self-reflection. This is something you and Lisa both lack, just from different ends of the spectrum.

Says the person who excuses cops killing 10 year old blk kids.

Again, which 10 year old kid are we talking about. Tamir Rice was 12 and I've condemned what the cops did there.

We face the most powerful miltary on the planet. The most powerful country on earth.

We are out numbered, out gunned and out financed but we get out fight white and non blk ppl till hell freezes over and then we will fight you on that fkin ice.

No race of ppl hae that kinda heart.

Oh, let's get real. I was in the army for 11 years... Most of the guys who I served with (regardless of race) weren't there to fight, or to liberate anyone. They were there for the benefits.

The reason why immigrants can come to this country is because of the fighting black Americans have fought for. That's why the arrows of racism is aimed at black people. We have no friends. That's why I hate the term "People of Color" Because we are the only people fighting you. Asians and Latinos are white ass lickers who have the same anti blk contempt.

Okay, let's look at that. If America was as racist as you say, then why do Hispanics and especially Asians do so well? Do you think they don't run into bigots?

I will be the first one to admit, they haven't had the experience black people have had... slavery, Jim Crow, etc. But they also aren't white, and by your logic, shouldn't do well.

Is that supposed to impress me ?

Nope, I think you are too mired in your own hate.

And I do very well. Black wife. Black child. Nice house. Nice car. Own my business. But I don't get fooled by that. I'm not "I 'm doinhg very well. Why can't these others blacks do it ?" Because for one the white supremacists can take it all away, and two I still do with white supremacy, maybe even more than most, because when you try to build and grow, buy real estate, even cash in hand, u still deal with the white supremacists

Again, is it because they are white supremacists, or is because you are kind of an asshole? If you come off in person like you come off here, I suspect most people wouldn't want to deal with you. You are the pain in the ass customer every barista and cashier fears.

Bothing to do witb that. Just the jury was filled with white supremacist, like you who simply stayed on code.It's a bit like if you were in court and if the black man was innocent, you'd still give him life without parole. Nothing to do with emotion. It's once again, you staying on code.

Actually, I would judge the case on the evidence.

In the case of Petersen, the evidence wasn't really there. There was just the emotional aspect that his wife was pregnant and he was stepping out with another woman. That jury didn't convict on evidence, it convicted on emotion. (And frankly, him stepping out on his pregnant wife kind of made him an asshole.)

In the case of Strickland... a witness identified him, he was an associate of the two guys who who did do it, and when the cops hauled him in, he talked about how he liked to shoot people. Um, yeah, stupidity might not be a crime, but it doesn't help.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That victim shit is used by racists. Your families have not faced continuing racis. You do know what continuing means don't you? It means that this discussion is not just about the past, but about YOUR RACISM RIGHT NOW.

Your are a loser white male stuck in a Cleveland slum. I am a black man who owns my home in a fairly nice hood. You are uneducated, I am college educated. I have helped build several non profits. You can't even drive a truck anymore, but you're talking about excuses for failure to people who have not failed. The only person making excuses here are you, lisa and other whites.



You have resentment. And when you look at crime, the higher numbers belong to whites. But you racists have an excuse for that, you'll just take the number of offender divide them by a entire population then muliply it by 100,000 then claim that's the correct way to determine activities that happen one on one. Then after you do that, you whine about how you are an individual. Whites aren't known to be any of the things you posted. You are just white racist trash.



Whites have gangs dumb ass. And 1-6-2021 was not done by blacks. Whites have fucked up plenty of public events. We live in America, therefore we are part on the American culture. You substitute culture for race so you can lie about your racism. If you want to play that way, white culture has been the biggest problem and it is because of whites like you.



The resentment is because of race. You travel across town because of retail redlining. White racism is the root cause of our problem. You're problems come from you being ignorant and racist. Your property has not lost value and the claim that blacks cause property values to decrease is an old unproven racist piece of crap. You're a racist Ray. Own it.

Ah, so more excuses. Red lining is not why stores close down. They close down when theft makes it impossible to create profit. The Walton's don't need banks to open up new stores.

Whites don't determine property value, the banks do. That determination is made based on what people are willing to pay to live in a certain area, and nobody wants to live around blacks; not because of racism, but because of crime, noise, filth, and bad upkeep of property.

Of course you're not a failure. Nobody on your side of the fence is. You just preach about how other people are and are speaking on their behalf. It's like these liberals around here that claim their success but taxes are not high enough for them. It simply makes no sense. Isn't the internet such a wonderful thing? You can pretend to be anybody you want to be.

So now I live in a slum, huh? Tell me, who turned it into a slum? It was one of the top rated suburbs when I moved here 35 years ago. So what happened? We used to have at best one murder every 15 years or so compared to today where it's several a year. Property value increased every year. We were flooded with stores and businesses. Our police were so bored they had nothing better to do than do traffic stops. Our schools were rated one of the best in the county. So what changed?

Whites have fucked up plenty of events? Then why did we always have successful events here years ago with no problems? Can you show me the last sporting event where the white audience created a mob scene? Seems to me when the news reports it, it's always an all black audience just like it is in my city.

Just for fun, I counted the number of times you used the word "race" or "racist" in your reply. Eight times in five short paragraphs. You've been trained well.

 

[Westender]

That victim shit is used by racists. Your families have not faced continuing racis. You do know what continuing means don't you? It means that this discussion is not just about the past, but about YOUR RACISM RIGHT NOW.

Your are a loser white male stuck in a Cleveland slum. I am a black man who owns my home in a fairly nice hood. You are uneducated, I am college educated. I have helped build several non profits. You can't even drive a truck anymore, but you're talking about excuses for failure to people who have not failed. The only person making excuses here are you, lisa and other whites.



You have resentment. And when you look at crime, the higher numbers belong to whites. But you racists have an excuse for that, you'll just take the number of offender divide them by a entire population then muliply it by 100,000 then claim that's the correct way to determine activities that happen one on one. Then after you do that, you whine about how you are an individual. Whites aren't known to be any of the things you posted. You are just white racist trash.



Whites have gangs dumb ass. And 1-6-2021 was not done by blacks. Whites have fucked up plenty of public events. We live in America, therefore we are part on the American culture. You substitute culture for race so you can lie about your racism. If you want to play that way, white culture has been the biggest problem and it is because of whites like you.



The resentment is because of race. You travel across town because of retail redlining. White racism is the root cause of our problem. You're problems come from you being ignorant and racist. Your property has not lost value and the claim that blacks cause property values to decrease is an old unproven racist piece of crap. You're a racist Ray. Own it.

Here's some evidence for you, the most heinous crime there is. An eighth of the population commits 55.9% of the murders. Tell me how that won't drop your property values.

"According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races."

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

What I will say to you about this Joe is that Paul is the result of racism he has faced. Lisa and Ray are racists, real live white supremacists who believe blacks are less human. There is a difference. There is only so much so much of the double standards and recognition of the way the system is maintained that a person of color will tolerate. Paul has a right to be angry, so does every black person in this country. It is indeed arrogant for a group of people to have done what whites have done to us, then tell us we are wrong for being angry.

What does being angry get you? I've had a lot of shitty things happen to me in my life, and frankly, I'm still angry about some of them. Angry doesn't solve the problem. Being angry at people who didn't cause the problem is part of it.

Ray doesn't want to talk to me right now, but I get some of his anger. He worked all his life to buy his property, which isn't worth the money he paid for it because his neighborhood has changed due to the Government dumping a bunch of Section 8 people into it. Because he didn't gain other skills, when the government told him he could no longer drive a truck, he was stuck going on disability. He is like a lot of white people in this country- they see themselves not having the affluence their parents had, and getting blamed for stuff they really had no hand in.

Not that Ray isn't a contemptable racist, because he is... but I can also see how the system screwed him. So he lashes out. He picks out the news story that makes him angrier... He and Paul have a lot more in common than you want to admit.

Paul has been correct about the things he has said. We aren't talking about conspiracies. As you are not a racist, perhaps instead of trying to compare Paul to pure white racist trash, that you begin to understand how he has come to feeling that way, because in my experience as a black man, I find that brother Paul Essen has a message you guys need to hear. It's not going to be what you like to hear, but until you guys can understand that we do have the right to be angry, whites will not do everything they need to make racism in the white community irrelevant.

Okay, let's look at that.

Most white people who watched the George Floyd tape were upset. They completely agreed with you that what Chauvin did was completely out of line. They even agreed that this was the time for substantial police reform.

But then it got carried too far. The riots dragged on for months. Property was destroyed. Crime rates spiked, partially because the police were overwhelmed, partially because no one wanted to be the next Chauvin. And look how close Trump came to winning a second term, despite all his failures?

Santayana once describes a fanatic as someone who redoubles his efforts while losing sight of his goal.

So what is your goal, and how do you get there?

 

[JoeB131]

okay, that part where I just kind of stuck up for Ray... boy, he makes it hard.

Ah, so more excuses. Red lining is not why stores close down. They close down when theft makes it impossible to create profit. The Walton's don't need banks to open up new stores.

Whites don't determine property value, the banks do. That determination is made based on what people are willing to pay to live in a certain area, and nobody wants to live around blacks; not because of racism, but because of crime, noise, filth, and bad upkeep of property.

So essentially, the banks and the Waltons decide to make a community a slum, and it becomes a slum... and you think this is okay.

Of course you're not a failure. Nobody on your side of the fence is. You just preach about how other people are and are speaking on their behalf. It's like these liberals around here that claim their success but taxes are not high enough for them. It simply makes no sense. Isn't the internet such a wonderful thing? You can pretend to be anybody you want to be.

I think my taxes are plenty high. They aren't high enough on the guy who has 5 Billion dollars to build a dick-rocket and fly into space with Captain Kirk. The ironic thing is you guys complain about the size of government and then want more tax cuts.... when in reality- when you get all this stuff for free and you don't have to pay for it, you just want more of it. The fastest way to make government smaller would be to have high enough taxes to pay for it all, and then some to pay back all the debt.

So now I live in a slum, huh? Tell me, who turned it into a slum? It was one of the top rated suburbs when I moved here 35 years ago. So what happened? We used to have at best one murder every 15 years or so compared to today where it's several a year. Property value increased every year. We were flooded with stores and businesses. Our police were so bored they had nothing better to do than do traffic stops. Our schools were rated one of the best in the county. So what changed?

Okay, here's what changed. Your city was once an industrial hub, second to only Detroit in the Auto industry. Then the Auto industry changed. Japanese and German cars entered the market, and people liked them better because Volkswagen and Toyota understood the emerging market, while the Big Three kept cranking out Pintos and Chevettes and Gremlins. A couple of bailouts later, the Auto Industry recovered, but Detroit and Cleveland didn't. People who could get out did... people who couldn't didn't.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have it so completely on target.

I use my grandparents as an example, but of course they are representative of millions who arrived around the same time: poor, uneducated, not even speaking the language. But they immediately got jobs, often in sweatshops working 12 hours a day - grateful that they were in a country that allowed opportunities, and moving beyond the discrimination, bigotry, and/or limited opportunities of their previous countries.

Our families were thankful simply for a chance, and that the old ways we’re behind them. Blacks today have been given FAVORITISM over whites, since the late 70s, especially in terms of admission to college, but also in terms of jobs in liberal cities. The federal government is notorious for this - giving black hires and promotions priority over whites.

And as you note, many blacks have taken advantage of this. The black people near shopping in upscale malls, eating in fancy steakhouses, and buying large colonial homes are often two-income government emoloyees. Others are doctors and lawyers, more likely than not benefitting from the lowered standards of admission to these programs.

Now some blacks did NOT take advantage of the favoritism in admissions. They did not take out Pell Grants for a free community college degree. They did not use birth control in high school (or better yet, refrain from sex since an unwanted pregnancy can derail one’s life at that age). IOW, they made the wrong choices - same as whites who remain stuck in poverty. Blaming it on racism is just plain wrong, and demonizing people who point it out is even worse.

It all boils down to value. We were born in this country. Opportunity has been with us all of our lives so many don't value it as much. If we want it, it's always there for us. We don't have to go out of our way, travel thousands of miles for it, wait for years and over a decade to get this unique opportunity, leave behind family and friends. It's right at our front door if we decide we want it.

It's kind of like if you were born into a wealthy family. Your father buys you a new car every two years. Do you really value those cars? To a degree perhps. Yeah, you'll take it to the car wash once in a while, get out the shop vac to clean up all the garbage laying around on the seats and floor the last six months. But you won't value that car like a person who never had one before, had to save for a couple of years, take a loan out, and make payments on the damn thing for the next five years. Those people hand wash their car several times a week. Apply wax once a month, wipe the slightest smudge off the windshield or windows, check the oil and tire pressure weekly. That car means everything to them.

It's a shame people born here don't value liberty and opportunity as much as foreigners who come here, but it is what it is.