The progressive war on Christmas/Christianity

[Obamanation]

As long as there is a Quran there will be people who kill in the name of it!

Horrible!

Interestingly enough............as long as there is a Bible, people will kill in the name of it as well.

Wanna talk about the abortion doctors who have been shot?

How about the women's health clinics that were bombed?

Does your God say that it's okay to murder if you prevent someone else from killing? If so, show me the Bible verse that says it's okay, and show me the Bible verse that says it's not allowed to abort a fetus in the womb?

You show me where ANY of those incidents are related to the teachings of the Bible?

Yeah --- that is what I thought!

 

[ABikerSailor]

As long as there is a Quran there will be people who kill in the name of it!

Horrible!

Interestingly enough............as long as there is a Bible, people will kill in the name of it as well.

Wanna talk about the abortion doctors who have been shot?

How about the women's health clinics that were bombed?

Does your God say that it's okay to murder if you prevent someone else from killing? If so, show me the Bible verse that says it's okay, and show me the Bible verse that says it's not allowed to abort a fetus in the womb?

You show me where ANY of those incidents are related to the teachings of the Bible?

Yeah --- that is what I thought!

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

 

[Obamanation]

Interestingly enough............as long as there is a Bible, people will kill in the name of it as well.

Wanna talk about the abortion doctors who have been shot?

How about the women's health clinics that were bombed?

Does your God say that it's okay to murder if you prevent someone else from killing? If so, show me the Bible verse that says it's okay, and show me the Bible verse that says it's not allowed to abort a fetus in the womb?

You show me where ANY of those incidents are related to the teachings of the Bible?

Yeah --- that is what I thought!

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

 

[ABikerSailor]

You show me where ANY of those incidents are related to the teachings of the Bible?

Yeah --- that is what I thought!

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

Actually, some of the various Christians have twisted it around enough that they believe that killing of "non believers" is just. Why? Because they think that abortion providers are doing something that is against God, and they believe that in their beliefs, killing someone who doesn't think as they do (namely abortion providers) justifies their murder.

Wanna try again?

 

[Obamanation]

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

Actually, some of the various Christians have twisted it around enough that they believe that killing of "non believers" is just. Why? Because they think that abortion providers are doing something that is against God, and they believe that in their beliefs, killing someone who doesn't think as they do (namely abortion providers) justifies their murder.

Wanna try again?

You just proved my point --- Thank you!

If people have to, like YOU said, twist it around in order to accomplish evil --- then we both agree that these are not principles taught by the Bible.

The same can not be said about the Quran. As long as people follow the teaching of the Quran there will be people who kill as a result!

 

[ABikerSailor]

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

Actually, some of the various Christians have twisted it around enough that they believe that killing of "non believers" is just. Why? Because they think that abortion providers are doing something that is against God, and they believe that in their beliefs, killing someone who doesn't think as they do (namely abortion providers) justifies their murder.

Wanna try again?

You just proved my point --- Thank you!

If people have to, like YOU said, twist it around in order to accomplish evil --- then we both agree that these are not principles taught by the Bible.

The same can not be said about the Quran. As long as people follow the teaching of the Quran there will be people who kill as a result!

Oh...................got it.....................you're another religious bigot who wants to demonize those who don't believe as they do.

Got news for you........................there are good things about Islam, and there are things that can be taken out of context.

Same thing with Christianity. There are good things about it, but many times people tend to cherry pick what they agree and disagree with. They only take the things they agree with.

Shooting a doctor in a church doesn't qualify (and it was done by a Christian), neither does bombing a clinic that provides healthcare to women (which was also done by a Christian).

By the way.....................what are your feelings about Fred Phelps and the Westboro Christian Church?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

As long as there is a Quran there will be people who kill in the name of it!

Horrible!

Your hatred of Muslims is un-Christian and sinful – again, according to the dogma of your faith.

 

[HUGGY]

You show me where ANY of those incidents are related to the teachings of the Bible?

Yeah --- that is what I thought!

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

You obviously don't know squat about how Islam came to be. Muhammed's "religion" was conceived originally as a peace treaty to save the warring Arabs from themselves. It was as much an agreement of truce as anything. It was meant to enforce free trade and free passage of trade routes without the threat of murder. The Quran is a document that lays out the penalties of breaking the truce. All Arabs must agree to the truce. At the time it was started Islam was the best thing that ever happened to the people of the region. What it is now has been twisted and perverted as the modern Muslims attempt to apply it's principles on the rest of the world.

 

[Obamanation]

Actually, some of the various Christians have twisted it around enough that they believe that killing of "non believers" is just. Why? Because they think that abortion providers are doing something that is against God, and they believe that in their beliefs, killing someone who doesn't think as they do (namely abortion providers) justifies their murder.

Wanna try again?

You just proved my point --- Thank you!

If people have to, like YOU said, twist it around in order to accomplish evil --- then we both agree that these are not principles taught by the Bible.

The same can not be said about the Quran. As long as people follow the teaching of the Quran there will be people who kill as a result!

Oh...................got it.....................you're another religious bigot who wants to demonize those who don't believe as they do.

Got news for you........................there are good things about Islam, and there are things that can be taken out of context.

Same thing with Christianity. There are good things about it, but many times people tend to cherry pick what they agree and disagree with. They only take the things they agree with.

Shooting a doctor in a church doesn't qualify (and it was done by a Christian), neither does bombing a clinic that provides healthcare to women (which was also done by a Christian).

By the way.....................what are your feelings about Fred Phelps and the Westboro Christian Church?

In case you haven't figured it out, I'm not one who is going to be lured into a cat-mouse game over my faith. I will address your issues though as long as you stay on point.

I'm not a bigot demonizing anything. I am taking the word of the Quran in that it calls for it's readers to kill...

You are right that there is a lot of good things in the Quran too, unfortunately there will always be people who follow the direct and literal orders to kill.

I'm not one who cherry picks the teachings of the Bible and would not support actions of Christians that are inconsistent with it's teachings.

Those examples of Christians who killed bastardize the teachings of the Bible to support unholy interests. They are not principles taught by the Bible in ANY fashion.

Westboro is a prime example of people who do not follow the teachings of the Bible but instead take their own evil interests and try to make the Bible fit them. IMO they are not Christians even though they claim to be --- much like the KKK. If you start with your own selfish interests you will never get it "right"!

 

[Obamanation]

As long as there is a Quran there will be people who kill in the name of it!

Horrible!

Your hatred of Muslims is un-Christian and sinful – again, according to the dogma of your faith.

Nice try. I don't hate muslims... I hate that some kill in the name of Islam.

 

[Obamanation]

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

You obviously don't know squat about how Islam came to be. Muhammed's "religion" was conceived originally as a peace treaty to save the warring Arabs from themselves. It was as much an agreement of truce as anything. It was meant to enforce free trade and free passage of trade routes without the threat of murder. The Quran is a document that lays out the penalties of breaking the truce. All Arabs must agree to the truce. At the time it was started Islam was the best thing that ever happened to the people of the region. What it is now has been twisted and perverted as the modern Muslims attempt to apply it's principles on the rest of the world.

Obviously I DO know how Islam came to be...

Muslims have been killing as a result of the teachings of the Quran since it's inception --- and there will be Muslims killing as a result of it's teachings as long as the book exists.

 

[koshergrl]

You show me where ANY of those incidents are related to the teachings of the Bible?

Yeah --- that is what I thought!

Not a problem......................killing someone without having a just cause to do so is called murder.

One of the 10 Commandments is "thou shalt not murder".

And.....................oh yeah.......................Adam didn't become "alive" until God breathed the breath of life into him.

You've gotta breathe before you're alive.

You missed my point entirely. The Quran endorses the killing of "non-believers"...

You spoke of Christians killing abortionists and their supporters --- but that isn't Biblical at all.

The Bible doesn't tell anyone to kill those who don't believe in it's teachings --- the Quran DOES!

Gaybiker's sole purspose on this planet is to misinterpret and misrepresent the bible to fellow drunks who are pathetic enough to be subject to his rantings.

Just ignore him, that's what most people do. He's a blowhard, and a biblical pinhead.

 

[American_Jihad]

As long as there is a Quran there will be people who kill in the name of it!

Horrible!

Interestingly enough............as long as there is a Bible, people will kill in the name of it as well.

Wanna talk about the abortion doctors who have been shot?

How about the women's health clinics that were bombed?

Does your God say that it's okay to murder if you prevent someone else from killing? If so, show me the Bible verse that says it's okay, and show me the Bible verse that says it's not allowed to abort a fetus in the womb?

AOBikieBoiy, Islamics 10,000X worse than the Christians, now shove off...

religion of peace - Google Search


...

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

OK... Let's talk about the war on Christmas.

I'm gonna start with the macro economics..

When I was a kid there was no Walmart..Big box stores... JC Pennys and Sears Roebuck was about as big as it got. Now probably upwards of 75% of the junk that will mostly be destroyed by the end of January originates in Asia. It used to be a big boon for the American economy to manufacture and distribute the goods bought and sold on Christmas...no more. Now it is just a handfull of minimum wage jobs.

What pray tell is the religious component of Christmas?

Someone please tell me how Jesus would view an American Christmas.

Far more is displayed about Santa and the reindeer than the nativity scene. And is the nativity scene even rellevant to December 25th?

How can any serious Christian scholar look at a typical American household's Christmas without having blood come out of his eyes ...ears and nose?

If I may offer a tip for the Christians you should try to seperate your holiday from the disgusting trinket smorgasboard fest which really only helps economies in the third world and seek an actually factual birthdate for Christ and celebrate actual events.

Abraham Lincoln declared a day of thanksgiving in 1863. This holiday is to commemorate the "First Thanksgiving" of the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in 1621. Is there any factual evidence to suggest this event occurred on the fourth Thursday in November? How disrespectful and embarrassing it would be if they couldn't establish an accurate day of the event. Yet, our nation still looks forward to having such an event represented. Oh the horror that our nation can't establish a more accurate date with certainty. I'm sure the pilgrims would be disgusted that a spiritual filled day attributed to "giving thanks" was being trumped by parades, and the promise of strong retail discounts and sales. Interesting how one holiday's accuracy and rightful representation can be viewed differently from another.

Another bad analogy. Thanksgiving is just a rememberance of the co-operation and assistance the Native Americans bestowed upon the English settlers at a time when it was doubtfull they would survive.

Jeebus is one man. Everyone has a birthday. It shouldn't be too much to ask what is his especially since his virgin mom should have been somewhat of a celebrity. One would think that Joseph would have had some important questions at the time also. If my virgin wife became knocked up I would have become a little more than curious. What kindof a moron was Joseph anyway?

When Huggy gets called out about the accuracy of dates behind certain holidays, finds he attempts to throw a little "spin" on the issue and fails miserably.

The whole point of Christmas and Thanksgiving is the "remembrance" of an event. Christmas encompasses the reflection of the birth of Jesus, the visit of wise men, and the attempt to destroy the child by King Herod. None of these occurrences happened at the same time, on the same date, which is why it's a reflective of an "event". Nativities depict wise men who visit a baby Jesus, which is inaccurate as he was a small child according to the bible. As you may recall the season of Christmas includes the giving of gifts. Does that part of the tradition ring any bells? You really need to study the Bible to actually get a clearer understanding of what took place, as you simply can not tell the difference between reflecting upon an event when compared to a simple birth.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

What would a new liberal Christianity look like?

In practice it should be defined by two things: an attachment to political liberalism and prioritising the 'cultic'

Theo Hobson
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 9 June 2013

In the first half of this two-part article I argued that we need a new sort of liberal Christianity. It must affirm political liberalism, but must resist the rational-humanist temptation that has debased this tradition in the past. Authentic Christianity needs the dual grounding of faith and cult.


What might this new liberal Christianity mean in practice? Well, it is defined by two things: its attachment to political liberalism – the liberal state – and its prioritisation of the ritual, the sacramental, the cultic.


The first of these is straightforward enough. In political terms, this new liberal Christianity will revive the old affinity between Protestantism and the liberal state. This does not mean an affirmation of "liberalism" in all its meanings (rational individualism, the free market, individual rights, and so on). It means affirmation of the sort of state that seeks to make "liberty" a unifying principle. Like it or not, the US is the model liberal state: it succeeded (gradually) in fusing liberty and national identity, and in separating church and state. The new liberal Christianity will argue for Britain's belated imitation of this (bring home the revolution!). It will demand the disestablishment of the Church of England, for in a really robust liberal state there must be clarity that citizens are united by secular ideals, rather than a nostalgic idea of religious unity. Will religion be marginalised by a heightened secularism? No, religion will become capable of new clarity and honesty.

...

What would a new liberal Christianity look like? | Theo Hobson | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

I find it interesting that liberals don't want any form of religion involved in government...

Just as we find your ignorance unsurprising.

‘Liberals’ advocate for no such thing.

There are circumstances when religious expression in government is appropriate and when it is not. The conflict lies only in the latter.

So liberals will never use Christianity to promote progressive government ideas?

Would Jesus support health care reform? ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

Jesus taught his followers to have compassion for the sick, to be helpful including paying for health care for those who could not afford it.

Washington Post

Obama emphasized the importance of his Christian beliefs in his politics and personal life, arguing that his efforts to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans, promote health insurance reform, help families with college tuition and send troops to prevent human rights abuses in Uganda were grounded in his faith.
“I think to myself, if I’m willing to give something up as somebody who’s been extraordinarily blessed, and give up some of the tax breaks that I enjoy, I actually think that’s going to make economic sense,” Obama told the audience. “But for me, as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required.’ ”

At prayer breakfast and with birth-control decision, Obama riles religious conservatives - Washington Post

In 2006, Senator Clinton stated that those who were seeking to enforce US immigration laws were not in keeping with her understanding of the scripture. She stated that legislation being introduced by Republicans would probably criminalize Jesus himself.

Hillary Clinton - Immigration

 

[ABikerSailor]

Abraham Lincoln declared a day of thanksgiving in 1863. This holiday is to commemorate the "First Thanksgiving" of the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in 1621. Is there any factual evidence to suggest this event occurred on the fourth Thursday in November? How disrespectful and embarrassing it would be if they couldn't establish an accurate day of the event. Yet, our nation still looks forward to having such an event represented. Oh the horror that our nation can't establish a more accurate date with certainty. I'm sure the pilgrims would be disgusted that a spiritual filled day attributed to "giving thanks" was being trumped by parades, and the promise of strong retail discounts and sales. Interesting how one holiday's accuracy and rightful representation can be viewed differently from another.

Another bad analogy. Thanksgiving is just a rememberance of the co-operation and assistance the Native Americans bestowed upon the English settlers at a time when it was doubtfull they would survive.

Jeebus is one man. Everyone has a birthday. It shouldn't be too much to ask what is his especially since his virgin mom should have been somewhat of a celebrity. One would think that Joseph would have had some important questions at the time also. If my virgin wife became knocked up I would have become a little more than curious. What kindof a moron was Joseph anyway?

When Huggy gets called out about the accuracy of dates behind certain holidays, finds he attempts to throw a little "spin" on the issue and fails miserably.

The whole point of Christmas and Thanksgiving is the "remembrance" of an event. Christmas encompasses the reflection of the birth of Jesus, the visit of wise men, and the attempt to destroy the child by King Herod. None of these occurrences happened at the same time, on the same date, which is why it's a reflective of an "event". Nativities depict wise men who visit a baby Jesus, which is inaccurate as he was a small child according to the bible. As you may recall the season of Christmas includes the giving of gifts. Does that part of the tradition ring any bells? You really need to study the Bible to actually get a clearer understanding of what took place, as you simply can not tell the difference between reflecting upon an event when compared to a simple birth.

Yanno.................my birthday is coming up in a few weeks, sometime around the first part of July.

Yeshua (Jesus) was born around the last part of October, yet Christians celebrate His birth in December.

I know that I'd be pissed if I had to wait until September to celebrate when I was born.

My family and friends can remember when I was born, and I'm not really anyone.............

If Yeshua (Jesus) is so important, why can't the people who worship Him remember when He was born?

Oh yeah............................forgot..............................it's because Rome took over Jerusalem, and decided that the Hebrew religion was good to control people, but in order to sell it to the pagans of Rome, they had to mesh the Jewish religion with what the pagans believed.

Which.........................is why Christmas (Jesus' birth) and Easter (Jesus' death and resurrection) are celebrated on a solstice.

 

[koshergrl]

Nobody gives a shit how you feel about your birthday, and you most certainly are not the Christ, nor do you resemble him in any way, shape or form.

So don't worry about it, loon.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Another bad analogy. Thanksgiving is just a rememberance of the co-operation and assistance the Native Americans bestowed upon the English settlers at a time when it was doubtfull they would survive.

Jeebus is one man. Everyone has a birthday. It shouldn't be too much to ask what is his especially since his virgin mom should have been somewhat of a celebrity. One would think that Joseph would have had some important questions at the time also. If my virgin wife became knocked up I would have become a little more than curious. What kindof a moron was Joseph anyway?

When Huggy gets called out about the accuracy of dates behind certain holidays, finds he attempts to throw a little "spin" on the issue and fails miserably.

The whole point of Christmas and Thanksgiving is the "remembrance" of an event. Christmas encompasses the reflection of the birth of Jesus, the visit of wise men, and the attempt to destroy the child by King Herod. None of these occurrences happened at the same time, on the same date, which is why it's a reflective of an "event". Nativities depict wise men who visit a baby Jesus, which is inaccurate as he was a small child according to the bible. As you may recall the season of Christmas includes the giving of gifts. Does that part of the tradition ring any bells? You really need to study the Bible to actually get a clearer understanding of what took place, as you simply can not tell the difference between reflecting upon an event when compared to a simple birth.

Yanno.................my birthday is coming up in a few weeks, sometime around the first part of July.

Yeshua (Jesus) was born around the last part of October, yet Christians celebrate His birth in December.

I know that I'd be pissed if I had to wait until September to celebrate when I was born.

My family and friends can remember when I was born, and I'm not really anyone.............

If Yeshua (Jesus) is so important, why can't the people who worship Him remember when He was born?

Oh yeah............................forgot..............................it's because Rome took over Jerusalem, and decided that the Hebrew religion was good to control people, but in order to sell it to the pagans of Rome, they had to mesh the Jewish religion with what the pagans believed.

Which.........................is why Christmas (Jesus' birth) and Easter (Jesus' death and resurrection) are celebrated on a solstice.

I think I already settled the argument concerning it being about his birth, unless you have a specific scripture where the wise men witnessed the actual "birth" of the child and not paying a visit while He was a toddler. Ever seen a Nativity scene, or would you rather I describe the characters to you? I mean. you DO know the actual difference between a remembrance of an event and speaking of someone's actual birth don't you?

 

[HUGGY]

Abraham Lincoln declared a day of thanksgiving in 1863. This holiday is to commemorate the "First Thanksgiving" of the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in 1621. Is there any factual evidence to suggest this event occurred on the fourth Thursday in November? How disrespectful and embarrassing it would be if they couldn't establish an accurate day of the event. Yet, our nation still looks forward to having such an event represented. Oh the horror that our nation can't establish a more accurate date with certainty. I'm sure the pilgrims would be disgusted that a spiritual filled day attributed to "giving thanks" was being trumped by parades, and the promise of strong retail discounts and sales. Interesting how one holiday's accuracy and rightful representation can be viewed differently from another.

Another bad analogy. Thanksgiving is just a rememberance of the co-operation and assistance the Native Americans bestowed upon the English settlers at a time when it was doubtfull they would survive.

Jeebus is one man. Everyone has a birthday. It shouldn't be too much to ask what is his especially since his virgin mom should have been somewhat of a celebrity. One would think that Joseph would have had some important questions at the time also. If my virgin wife became knocked up I would have become a little more than curious. What kindof a moron was Joseph anyway?

When Huggy gets called out about the accuracy of dates behind certain holidays, finds he attempts to throw a little "spin" on the issue and fails miserably.

The whole point of Christmas and Thanksgiving is the "remembrance" of an event. Christmas encompasses the reflection of the birth of Jesus, the visit of wise men, and the attempt to destroy the child by King Herod. None of these occurrences happened at the same time, on the same date, which is why it's a reflective of an "event". Nativities depict wise men who visit a baby Jesus, which is inaccurate as he was a small child according to the bible. As you may recall the season of Christmas includes the giving of gifts. Does that part of the tradition ring any bells? You really need to study the Bible to actually get a clearer understanding of what took place, as you simply can not tell the difference between reflecting upon an event when compared to a simple birth.

I fail miserably? The Christians can't get it straight wether Jeebus was a new born baby or a little brat? Right. Face it. The Christian narrative is totally full of holes big enough to drive a Pope mobile through.

If the bible was written today it would never get published. It is just too stupid to be believed.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Another bad analogy. Thanksgiving is just a rememberance of the co-operation and assistance the Native Americans bestowed upon the English settlers at a time when it was doubtfull they would survive.

Jeebus is one man. Everyone has a birthday. It shouldn't be too much to ask what is his especially since his virgin mom should have been somewhat of a celebrity. One would think that Joseph would have had some important questions at the time also. If my virgin wife became knocked up I would have become a little more than curious. What kindof a moron was Joseph anyway?

When Huggy gets called out about the accuracy of dates behind certain holidays, finds he attempts to throw a little "spin" on the issue and fails miserably.

The whole point of Christmas and Thanksgiving is the "remembrance" of an event. Christmas encompasses the reflection of the birth of Jesus, the visit of wise men, and the attempt to destroy the child by King Herod. None of these occurrences happened at the same time, on the same date, which is why it's a reflective of an "event". Nativities depict wise men who visit a baby Jesus, which is inaccurate as he was a small child according to the bible. As you may recall the season of Christmas includes the giving of gifts. Does that part of the tradition ring any bells? You really need to study the Bible to actually get a clearer understanding of what took place, as you simply can not tell the difference between reflecting upon an event when compared to a simple birth.

I fail miserably? The Christians can't get it straight wether Jeebus was a new born baby or a little brat?

Actually you made that assumption upon yourself when you decided to associate Christmas with His birth, I merely corrected you on the issue. I find that's usually common practice of someone that normally doesn't take an interest to read the Bible. Glad that I could help clarify things for you, even as you seem to equate your lack of knowledge on the subject with "holes"