The prices of houses are more inflated than they've ever been in human history

[sakinago]

Drastically less than buying new. You're the one who got raked over the coals.

So you're whining About what you pay AND sticking your nose into what others pay....

How very liberal & entitled you are

Overpay if you want, you're getting duped. What I'm whining about is dealerships getting government to give them a regional monopoly, an utter lack of competition...which competition is the driving force of capitalism. America also has the worst internet infrastructure of the developed world, and we pay much more for shitty service, why? Lack of competition, same deal, providers got together and went to government to shut out competition, and our internet speeds asses are getting kicked by socialist countries who have more competition than we do in the apparent "free world." If you're a fan of this, you're probably the actual socialist here. I'm not, I want more competition driving down prices for much better service than the chicken shit we get now with govt interventionism shutting out competition. Sorry if that's too much to ask for for you. I think it's a pretty fair complaint.

In Europe the "Socialists" forced (regulated) the companies that owned the infrastructure to share it in order to allow for competition. Good!

In America the government didn't force the companies (free market principles) that owned the infrastructure to share. Bad

Man, you are difficult to figure out.

Do you know what it takes to get the government to let you lay your own lines in the US??? It's next to impossible, a billionaire couldn't even buy their way to do it unless they're somehow friends with the big four, and the big four will somehow profit off of it. Again impossible. It's not the sharing of lines, it's the whole not allowing any more lines.

It's local govts and public utilities that create the obstacles and exorbitant fees. Unless you are Google Fiber. They can get it done.

You want the federal government to step in on this one?

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

 

[Tehon]

So you're whining About what you pay AND sticking your nose into what others pay....

How very liberal & entitled you are

Overpay if you want, you're getting duped. What I'm whining about is dealerships getting government to give them a regional monopoly, an utter lack of competition...which competition is the driving force of capitalism. America also has the worst internet infrastructure of the developed world, and we pay much more for shitty service, why? Lack of competition, same deal, providers got together and went to government to shut out competition, and our internet speeds asses are getting kicked by socialist countries who have more competition than we do in the apparent "free world." If you're a fan of this, you're probably the actual socialist here. I'm not, I want more competition driving down prices for much better service than the chicken shit we get now with govt interventionism shutting out competition. Sorry if that's too much to ask for for you. I think it's a pretty fair complaint.

In Europe the "Socialists" forced (regulated) the companies that owned the infrastructure to share it in order to allow for competition. Good!

In America the government didn't force the companies (free market principles) that owned the infrastructure to share. Bad

Man, you are difficult to figure out.

Do you know what it takes to get the government to let you lay your own lines in the US??? It's next to impossible, a billionaire couldn't even buy their way to do it unless they're somehow friends with the big four, and the big four will somehow profit off of it. Again impossible. It's not the sharing of lines, it's the whole not allowing any more lines.

It's local govts and public utilities that create the obstacles and exorbitant fees. Unless you are Google Fiber. They can get it done.

You want the federal government to step in on this one?

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

 

[sakinago]

Overpay if you want, you're getting duped. What I'm whining about is dealerships getting government to give them a regional monopoly, an utter lack of competition...which competition is the driving force of capitalism. America also has the worst internet infrastructure of the developed world, and we pay much more for shitty service, why? Lack of competition, same deal, providers got together and went to government to shut out competition, and our internet speeds asses are getting kicked by socialist countries who have more competition than we do in the apparent "free world." If you're a fan of this, you're probably the actual socialist here. I'm not, I want more competition driving down prices for much better service than the chicken shit we get now with govt interventionism shutting out competition. Sorry if that's too much to ask for for you. I think it's a pretty fair complaint.

In Europe the "Socialists" forced (regulated) the companies that owned the infrastructure to share it in order to allow for competition. Good!

In America the government didn't force the companies (free market principles) that owned the infrastructure to share. Bad

Man, you are difficult to figure out.

Do you know what it takes to get the government to let you lay your own lines in the US??? It's next to impossible, a billionaire couldn't even buy their way to do it unless they're somehow friends with the big four, and the big four will somehow profit off of it. Again impossible. It's not the sharing of lines, it's the whole not allowing any more lines.

It's local govts and public utilities that create the obstacles and exorbitant fees. Unless you are Google Fiber. They can get it done.

You want the federal government to step in on this one?

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

 

[Tehon]

In Europe the "Socialists" forced (regulated) the companies that owned the infrastructure to share it in order to allow for competition. Good!

In America the government didn't force the companies (free market principles) that owned the infrastructure to share. Bad

Man, you are difficult to figure out.

Do you know what it takes to get the government to let you lay your own lines in the US??? It's next to impossible, a billionaire couldn't even buy their way to do it unless they're somehow friends with the big four, and the big four will somehow profit off of it. Again impossible. It's not the sharing of lines, it's the whole not allowing any more lines.

It's local govts and public utilities that create the obstacles and exorbitant fees. Unless you are Google Fiber. They can get it done.

You want the federal government to step in on this one?

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

 

[Iceweasel]

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Move to Cuba or Venezuela, problem solved. i paid off my house 22 years ahead of time in this system and live debt free. If you can't do it it isn't capitalism's fault.

 

[sakinago]

Do you know what it takes to get the government to let you lay your own lines in the US??? It's next to impossible, a billionaire couldn't even buy their way to do it unless they're somehow friends with the big four, and the big four will somehow profit off of it. Again impossible. It's not the sharing of lines, it's the whole not allowing any more lines.

It's local govts and public utilities that create the obstacles and exorbitant fees. Unless you are Google Fiber. They can get it done.

You want the federal government to step in on this one?

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

 

[Tehon]

It's local govts and public utilities that create the obstacles and exorbitant fees. Unless you are Google Fiber. They can get it done.

You want the federal government to step in on this one?

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

 

[Tehon]

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Move to Cuba or Venezuela, problem solved. i paid off my house 22 years ahead of time in this system and live debt free. If you can't do it it isn't capitalism's fault.

Congratulations my man.

 

[sakinago]

Any form of government doing this is bad. Still leaves us with jack shit to choose from and then raking it in. Lack of competition is the problem, how did they weed out competition, they used the government. That's bad. That's not capitalism.

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

 

[Tehon]

The "socialist" government intervention led to a better outcome then the hands off approach here.

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

 

[sakinago]

And the ends justify the means? It also led to government forcing others property to be used by others. It's also unnecessary in a world where companies can lay their own damn lines, and not have to piggy back on someone else's property. The companies bought and paid for the lines to be laid, if they want to choose to rent those lines to other companies it should be up to them. If another company doesn't want to constantly have to pay rent on using lines and make more money in the long run, or have a better faster line they want to lay, that should be up to them...see how actual freedom works?

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

 

[Tehon]

Your utopian society doesn't exist nor will it ever.

Capitalism is failing us. It's not government. It's the failing capitalist system that is the cause of our dysfunction and the reason for this thread. You believe in a system that operates with self interest as its core principle. Well, this is what you get.

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

 

[sakinago]

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

That's your response, another tax payer funded, failed government program adding to the deficit that all who pay taxes, even though we never use Amtrak, still have to pay for. Still a tiger jackass.

 

[sakinago]

Wow good retort. Jump right to a strawman
Well it's time to put away your strawman. There is no utopia. Never claimed there was one. Yes it does operate with self interest at its core...but the incentives are rewards for serving humanity. You improve someone's life in some way, at a price they're willing to pay, and bam. It's not at all a one sided self service. In this form, people vote with their dollars for what they want, and guess what, the minority can get what they want too, let's say you're really into body pillows with trees getting chopped down, guess what you can probably find that someone, and someone else can make money off of your weird ass obsession. It's not decided by the few, it's decided by all. And no we have not been practicing capitalism for a long time, in some areas we're freer sure, it some not at all. Look at the dominance of internet based business, is there a freer market than the internet?? No no never in human history. Now look at the most heavily regulated industries, and how widely they are hated, hassles, overpriced, and terrible costumer service. Energy, air travel, cable, health insurance, pretty much if it's heavily regulated, it blows. What's the common denominator. Look at Uber vs cab industry. 60% of the cost of buying a new home is keeping it compliant with regulations. 100% of Illinois state tax revenue goes to pensions...100%. Does that sound like free market capitalism?? Not at all, if it does to you, then you don't know what capitalism is.

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

 

[Tehon]

I know what capitalism is. I explained it to you in another thread and you were unable to respond cogently. You have this crazy utopian dream of a market without any government interference. You refuse to accept any. That is utopian.

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

Never said the state wasn't a problem. I said that USPS was a state capitalist enterprise, as is Amtrak. Whether they operate at a profit or not doesn't alter that fact.

 

[sakinago]

No you don't, not when you used the term state ran capitalism, it's an oxymoron. You might as well say, look at that living roadkill, or that dry water. Water isn't dry, roadkill is dead, capitalism is not state ran, that fundamentally goes against everything capitalism is for. It's no longer capitalism. You're saying hey? Look at that orange, and black striped lion...guess what, it's not a lion, it's called a tiger. Even when you successfully mate a tiger and a lion, it's neither of the two, we call it something else, because it is something else. I'd be just in the wrong to call something free market communism...it's no longer communism. That's a ridiculous statement, 99.9% of USMB would agree that's a ridiculous statement, the hardcore commies included. Your just the one freaking horse who doesn't see the obvious and drink the water, clearly, so I'm not going to lead you to the water, because I already know you're not going to drink it. You're gonna keep drinking your punch, and ignore what capitalism actually is, and say ridiculous statements like "state ran communism" because you read it in punch drinkers weekly. I'm not going to bother.

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

Never said the state wasn't a problem. I said that USPS was a state capitalist enterprise, as is Amtrak. Whether they operate at a profit or not doesn't alter that fact.

People have to voluntarily pay money in free markets...or else they aren't free anymore. Business have to survive on their own, not on tax payer money, and they don't even survive, they are black holes gobbling up money. Business can run for profit in socialism, that doesn't mean they're in a capitalistic system. I shouldn't have to tell you this though, you should be smart enough to connect these very close dots for yourself. What makes it so hard for you is the punch drinking and the cognitive dissonance that doesnt let you're brain do it's thinking, instead your brain is just reacting to protect you're ego.

 

[Tehon]

What is the postal service if not a state capitalist business? See how easy it is to refute your nonsense about lions and tigers. USMB hardcore commies
You're a riot.

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

Never said the state wasn't a problem. I said that USPS was a state capitalist enterprise, as is Amtrak. Whether they operate at a profit or not doesn't alter that fact.

People have to voluntarily pay money in free markets...or else they aren't free anymore. Business have to survive on their own, not on tax payer money, and they don't even survive, they are black holes gobbling up money. Business can run for profit in socialism, that doesn't mean they're in a capitalistic system. I shouldn't have to tell you this though, you should be smart enough to connect these very close dots for yourself. What makes it so hard for you is the punch drinking and the cognitive dissonance that doesnt let you're brain do it's thinking, instead your brain is just reacting to protect you're ego.

It's interesting to note that the term capitalism and the capitalist mode of production were discovered by socialists in the mid 19th century and used exclusively by socialists until the middle of the twentieth century. At which point proponents of the free market system took possession of the term and began to redefine it and in doing so made it almost meaningless. But if one has the intellectual capacity to understand and break down how the economy works we end up right back at the socialist definition. This has already been explained to you.

And if we continue in our intellectual curiosity and examine the works of the most celebrated socialist in history, we can uncover the roots of the systemic failures in our society that you eluded to in your OP. You see, none of what you cried about in your OP should be a surprise, Karl Marx broke it all down more than 150 years ago! The systemic failures in our society stem from the inherent flaws in the capitalist mode of production.

 

[sakinago]

Still not capitalism, state ran program jackass. Just because it's semi for "profit", but not really because it's around some 17 billion in debt last time I checked and being mainly funded by taxpayer dollars. That's not capitalism dipshit, a company does not survive being billions of dollars in the red for decades in capitalism. The only way it survived is through tax payer money, not voluntarily given in exchange for the product or service. AND YET AGIAN YOU IN AMAZING DIMWITTED FASHION DISPLAY THAT YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF CAPITALISM. Just because it's for profit, does not make it capitalism, there's a whole other half of the equation that is massive you seem to be forgetting, enough people have to like your product or service enough to be willing to pay what you ask for it. And surprise surprise, when they don't, you no longer have a business. Duh. Jesus H. This is exactly why I'm not bothering with you, since you're clearly too far brain damaged from the punch, you no longer operate in any sort of reality.

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

Never said the state wasn't a problem. I said that USPS was a state capitalist enterprise, as is Amtrak. Whether they operate at a profit or not doesn't alter that fact.

People have to voluntarily pay money in free markets...or else they aren't free anymore. Business have to survive on their own, not on tax payer money, and they don't even survive, they are black holes gobbling up money. Business can run for profit in socialism, that doesn't mean they're in a capitalistic system. I shouldn't have to tell you this though, you should be smart enough to connect these very close dots for yourself. What makes it so hard for you is the punch drinking and the cognitive dissonance that doesnt let you're brain do it's thinking, instead your brain is just reacting to protect you're ego.

It's interesting to note that the term capitalism and the capitalist mode of production were discovered by socialists in the mid 19th century and used exclusively by socialists until the middle of the twentieth century. At which point proponents of the free market system took possession of the term and began to redefine it and in doing so made it almost meaningless. But if one has the intellectual capacity to understand and break down how the economy works we end up right back at the socialist definition. This has already been explained to you.

And if we continue in our intellectual curiosity and examine the works of the most celebrated socialist in history, we can uncover the roots of the systemic failures in our society that you eluded to in your OP. You see, none of what you cried about in your OP should be a surprise, Karl Marx broke it all down more than 150 years ago! The systemic failures in our society stem from the inherent flaws in the capitalist mode of production.

Really...karl Marx...his dream played out so well many times. Only 100 million dead in one century, vs capitalism that has brought 2 billion out of poverty. And I'm supposed to listen to what the socialist say about capitalism, even though they've been getting it wrong for 150 years? Guess what, Hagal and Marx were wrong. And it's not because nobody followed their dreams exactly like you're going to claim ("well they just weren't doing it right") it is what happens when the few decide for the many. At best socialism is the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, at best...what we usually get is what's good for the people in power comes first, and then what keeps and grows their power comes second. America completely destroys the rest of the world with nobel prizes, there's no one that comes even semi close. We have essentially solved hunger, plague, and war for the rest of the world, to where they're no longer the 3 biggest killers like they've been through the entirty of human history. The only reason a country is starving, is because their government is either doing it on purpose or incompetent, and that's with 7 billion humans walking around. Yes disease is still killing, but again usually BC of government incompetence. Yes there is still war, but it's no where near killing as many as it constantly was throughout human history.

 

[Tehon]

Amtrak is another state owned capitalist enterprise.

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

Never said the state wasn't a problem. I said that USPS was a state capitalist enterprise, as is Amtrak. Whether they operate at a profit or not doesn't alter that fact.

People have to voluntarily pay money in free markets...or else they aren't free anymore. Business have to survive on their own, not on tax payer money, and they don't even survive, they are black holes gobbling up money. Business can run for profit in socialism, that doesn't mean they're in a capitalistic system. I shouldn't have to tell you this though, you should be smart enough to connect these very close dots for yourself. What makes it so hard for you is the punch drinking and the cognitive dissonance that doesnt let you're brain do it's thinking, instead your brain is just reacting to protect you're ego.

It's interesting to note that the term capitalism and the capitalist mode of production were discovered by socialists in the mid 19th century and used exclusively by socialists until the middle of the twentieth century. At which point proponents of the free market system took possession of the term and began to redefine it and in doing so made it almost meaningless. But if one has the intellectual capacity to understand and break down how the economy works we end up right back at the socialist definition. This has already been explained to you.

And if we continue in our intellectual curiosity and examine the works of the most celebrated socialist in history, we can uncover the roots of the systemic failures in our society that you eluded to in your OP. You see, none of what you cried about in your OP should be a surprise, Karl Marx broke it all down more than 150 years ago! The systemic failures in our society stem from the inherent flaws in the capitalist mode of production.

Really...karl Marx...his dream played out so well many times. Only 100 million dead in one century, vs capitalism that has brought 2 billion out of poverty. And I'm supposed to listen to what the socialist say about capitalism, even though they've been getting it wrong for 150 years? Guess what, Hagal and Marx were wrong. And it's not because nobody followed their dreams exactly like you're going to claim ("well they just weren't doing it right") it is what happens when the few decide for the many. At best socialism is the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, at best...what we usually get is what's good for the people in power comes first, and then what keeps and grows their power comes second. America completely destroys the rest of the world with nobel prizes, there's no one that comes even semi close. We have essentially solved hunger, plague, and war for the rest of the world, to where they're no longer the 3 biggest killers like they've been through the entirty of human history. The only reason a country is starving, is because their government is either doing it on purpose or incompetent, and that's with 7 billion humans walking around. Yes disease is still killing, but again usually BC of government incompetence. Yes there is still war, but it's no where near killing as many as it constantly was throughout human history.

You've never read Marx. You have no clue what he espoused. You're back to spouting platitudes.

 

[sakinago]

And why is it that state ran postal service is running at 17 billion dollar deficit, while UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, and are more efficient, despite not being propped up with billions of dollars of free money??? And yet the state isn't the problem in your world?

Never said the state wasn't a problem. I said that USPS was a state capitalist enterprise, as is Amtrak. Whether they operate at a profit or not doesn't alter that fact.

People have to voluntarily pay money in free markets...or else they aren't free anymore. Business have to survive on their own, not on tax payer money, and they don't even survive, they are black holes gobbling up money. Business can run for profit in socialism, that doesn't mean they're in a capitalistic system. I shouldn't have to tell you this though, you should be smart enough to connect these very close dots for yourself. What makes it so hard for you is the punch drinking and the cognitive dissonance that doesnt let you're brain do it's thinking, instead your brain is just reacting to protect you're ego.

It's interesting to note that the term capitalism and the capitalist mode of production were discovered by socialists in the mid 19th century and used exclusively by socialists until the middle of the twentieth century. At which point proponents of the free market system took possession of the term and began to redefine it and in doing so made it almost meaningless. But if one has the intellectual capacity to understand and break down how the economy works we end up right back at the socialist definition. This has already been explained to you.

And if we continue in our intellectual curiosity and examine the works of the most celebrated socialist in history, we can uncover the roots of the systemic failures in our society that you eluded to in your OP. You see, none of what you cried about in your OP should be a surprise, Karl Marx broke it all down more than 150 years ago! The systemic failures in our society stem from the inherent flaws in the capitalist mode of production.

Really...karl Marx...his dream played out so well many times. Only 100 million dead in one century, vs capitalism that has brought 2 billion out of poverty. And I'm supposed to listen to what the socialist say about capitalism, even though they've been getting it wrong for 150 years? Guess what, Hagal and Marx were wrong. And it's not because nobody followed their dreams exactly like you're going to claim ("well they just weren't doing it right") it is what happens when the few decide for the many. At best socialism is the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, at best...what we usually get is what's good for the people in power comes first, and then what keeps and grows their power comes second. America completely destroys the rest of the world with nobel prizes, there's no one that comes even semi close. We have essentially solved hunger, plague, and war for the rest of the world, to where they're no longer the 3 biggest killers like they've been through the entirty of human history. The only reason a country is starving, is because their government is either doing it on purpose or incompetent, and that's with 7 billion humans walking around. Yes disease is still killing, but again usually BC of government incompetence. Yes there is still war, but it's no where near killing as many as it constantly was throughout human history.

You've never read Marx. You have no clue what he espoused. You're back to spouting platitudes.

I said he was wrong. When you give a government entity that much power, it doesn't end well. He was wrong. And it still doesn't matter since you still think the USPS or Amtrak is capitalism. What makes it capitalism to you is the fact that it isn't what Marx wanted to do. One thing is for sure, Marx didn't believe in private property. The truth is people more often than not take care of their own property, vs say a public road, or company equipment, or say tax money... obviously when our own government erroneously spends a full third of its annual income, they aren't very good at taking care of taxpayer money. Erroneously meaning they made payments, they weren't supposed to make, that's not include frivolous or wasteful spending, 1/3 (over 1 trillion dollars) was erroneously spent, in one year...think about that. Can you even think of a single company that is even worth 1 trillion dollars, even asset liquidity included? Can you think of a company that would survive erroneously spending one third of their income? Can you think of a household that would survive doing that? And tax dollars are just a surface example of people poorly taking care of property that is not their own.