The Personhood of the unborn needs to be settled

[WinterBorn]

With the recent ruling in Alabama regarding abortion, and the eventual path towards SCOTUS to settle the issue, the obvious thing to do is to define what exactly the unborn is, something Roe vs. Wade shied away from doing. After all, the reason blacks were mistreated under the Constitution was because they were not identified as equals, they were 3/5 a human being.

There are but two possibilities from my vantage point.

1. They are a parasite, defined as an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism

2. Or they are a human being.

Which camp do you fall in?

I'm not going to weigh in on the main topic.

Just correct you on your comparison. No one ever defined blacks as 3/5 of a human being. They were counted as 3/5 of a person in the census, for the purpose of keeping slave states from having power by having more people. They were always seen as a human being.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is no right to kill an innocent.

For any reason!

Rape, incest, health of the mother. None of those matter as long as that innocent little baby is born.

but....but.....but....what if the baby grows up to be an America hating atheist liberal?

Well, maybe it won't be quite THAT bad, and he'll just be a criminal.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is no such thing as an unwanted child. Didn’t read the rest of your post, because that first statement was wrong.

Explain that.

I meant exactly what I said. Just because a mother doesn't want her own baby doesn't mean that the baby is unwanted – it's only unwanted by her. There is ALWAYS someone who wants to adopt a baby or child. There are even people who specifically want to take in special needs children, or children who (for whatever reason) are not as 'in demand.'

In addition to that, even if every human in the entire world died, except for one baby, that baby would STILL be wanted / loved. I think you know what I mean, but I'm not going to get into that, because in abortion debates, it is completely unnecessary to go there, and since many proaborts are nonbelievers, I wouldn't expect them to accept or agree with that.

I guess I have looked at adoption from the "glass half empty" perspective because I used to work in Children's Services and the entire system, including adoption, was a wreck. Perhaps it goes much better among private adoption agencies. We had a lot of kids who were never adopted because they had problems of one sort or another. The regulations for being an adoptive parent--even including how big the windows are in the bedrooms--are exhaustive and expensive. I am sure the families you describe are out there, buttercup, but there aren't enough of them to handle the huge number of kids that would be showing up on the adoption agency's steps if abortion in this country were banned.

I'm not hearing "better off dead" here, but I've never been a sociopath.

actually.....ALL conservatives are sociopaths.....to one degree or another....

Actually, you're babbling in your intense need to feel relevant. Sociopath does NOT mean "people I don't like", so shoo, Junior. Grown-ups are talking.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Morning after pill isn't always effective. And most women don't use abortion as birth control. Accidents happen. Many women who have gotten pregnant by accident were taking precautions. Then you have rape victims.

If abortion is overturned we risk going back tot he days of coat hangers

You’re going to do what LefTards do...hide behind the one percentile to justify your filth?
Hmm..I wonder how many abortions you’ve had performed?

Birth control failing is more than 1%. And especially with put the obesity rates, birth control failure is higher. Birth control methods like the pill are less effective on overweight women, along with the morning after pill.

Then there are medical conditions that call for it.

I did have to have an abortion one time, because I had an ectopic pregnancy. So am I a murderer too?

What you are is willfully stupid, if you really can't tell the difference between ending an ectopic pregnancy and having an abortion because motherhood would interfere with your promotion at work.

For one who brags what a good Christian they are, you sure talk like a stupid white trash *****. Fake Christian says what?

Ooh, I see a red herring twitting about. A non Christian trying to identify real Christians. Cute. Moving on.



Did it ever occur to any of you far leftists that as a woman, Cecilie is just as qualified to speak on abortion rights as any woman to the far left of her?

The idea that she isn't qualified to speak on the issue due to her political opinion on abortion is uh... how can I say this? Sexist. Discriminatory. Nothing about her opinion disqualifies her from speaking on abortion or the ethics thereof. I can't speak to whether she has had children or not, but if she has, she would have far more experience on the issue of the humanity of a child than some people trying to pass off "a fetus isn't human" as scientific fact.

The idea that I'm not qualified to speak on the issue because my opinion differs from leftist is . . . how can I say this? Chickenshit. The only thing that disqualifies my opinion from being expressed is that the junkless wonders on the left are too cowardly to face, or even hear, a dissenting position from their own. That's it, that's all.

FYI, 'cause we're friends, I have three children, four grandchildren, AND fairly extensive training and experience around medicine.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I don't know about Buttercup, but I'm not planning to define reality based on what you or anyone else will agree with, especially since I know you dedicated pro-aborts will disagree until the end of time, based on nothing more than your personal desires.

SCIENCE agrees about what an embryo is. Pick up any embryology textbook from any medical school if you don't believe me. Reality doesn't need your approval.

Again, your science statements are just straight stupid - no one disagrees that it in fact an embryo. Disagreement is over this embryo being or not being A PERSON.

A person is simply a human being. And it is an undeniable scientific fact that the zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.

Please link to a single scientific reference to the word "being"

You are just playing symantics.

Embryo is no more "a being" than a few skin cells.

Definition of BEING

You're just another trickle down postmodernist repeating what the intelligentsia tell you to say and do. Like them, you would preach that life itself, or human "being-ness" is nothing more than a social construct to be redefined at will to fit your ideology. That old black magic hasn't been worth a shit for some time now. Try to originate an unique thought of your own.

"You're just another trickle down postmodernist repeating what the intelligentsia tell you to say and do. Like them, you would preach that life itself, or human "being-ness" is nothing more than a social construct to be redefined at will to fit your ideology."



I'd say this is irritatingly ironic since conservatives believe that blacks are SUBhuman and liberals and gays are worthless scum who deserve death........


so all life is precious but blacks are subhumans

all life is precious but gays are perverts and defective

alll life is precious but liberals are terrorist loving god hating america hating scum bags....

seems to me conservatives preach that life itself, or human "being-ness" is nothing more than a social construct to be redefined at will to fit their ideology.....


cons GOOD = deserve life

fetuses GOOD = deserve life

gays BAD = deserve death

liberals BAD = deserve death

What if a woman is forced to have a child that she would have aborted and the child grows up to be a gay, atheist, liberal democrat?

do you want to kill it THEN?

I was clearly more correct even than I knew when I described you as "babbling". Seriously, don't you have homework to do or zit cream to apply, Junior?

 

[TemplarKormac]

FYI, 'cause we're friends, I have three children, four grandchildren, AND fairly extensive training and experience around medicine.

Weeelp.

That settles it for me then.

You go girl.

 

[Crixus]

You’re going to do what LefTards do...hide behind the one percentile to justify your filth?
Hmm..I wonder how many abortions you’ve had performed?

Birth control failing is more than 1%. And especially with put the obesity rates, birth control failure is higher. Birth control methods like the pill are less effective on overweight women, along with the morning after pill.

Then there are medical conditions that call for it.

I did have to have an abortion one time, because I had an ectopic pregnancy. So am I a murderer too?

What you are is willfully stupid, if you really can't tell the difference between ending an ectopic pregnancy and having an abortion because motherhood would interfere with your promotion at work.

For one who brags what a good Christian they are, you sure talk like a stupid white trash *****. Fake Christian says what?

Ooh, I see a red herring twitting about. A non Christian trying to identify real Christians. Cute. Moving on.



Did it ever occur to any of you far leftists that as a woman, Cecilie is just as qualified to speak on abortion rights as any woman to the far left of her?

The idea that she isn't qualified to speak on the issue due to her political opinion on abortion is uh... how can I say this? Sexist. Discriminatory. Nothing about her opinion disqualifies her from speaking on abortion or the ethics thereof. I can't speak to whether she has had children or not, but if she has, she would have far more experience on the issue of the humanity of a child than some people trying to pass off "a fetus isn't human" as scientific fact.

The idea that I'm not qualified to speak on the issue because my opinion differs from leftist is . . . how can I say this? Chickenshit. The only thing that disqualifies my opinion from being expressed is that the junkless wonders on the left are too cowardly to face, or even hear, a dissenting position from their own. That's it, that's all.

FYI, 'cause we're friends, I have three children, four grandchildren, AND fairly extensive training and experience around medicine.

Yeah and I’m a French super model.

 

[Crixus]

Morning after pill isn't always effective. And most women don't use abortion as birth control. Accidents happen. Many women who have gotten pregnant by accident were taking precautions. Then you have rape victims.

If abortion is overturned we risk going back tot he days of coat hangers

You’re going to do what LefTards do...hide behind the one percentile to justify your filth?
Hmm..I wonder how many abortions you’ve had performed?

Birth control failing is more than 1%. And especially with put the obesity rates, birth control failure is higher. Birth control methods like the pill are less effective on overweight women, along with the morning after pill.

Then there are medical conditions that call for it.

I did have to have an abortion one time, because I had an ectopic pregnancy. So am I a murderer too?

What you are is willfully stupid, if you really can't tell the difference between ending an ectopic pregnancy and having an abortion because motherhood would interfere with your promotion at work.

For one who brags what a good Christian they are, you sure talk like a stupid white trash *****. Fake Christian says what?

Ooh, I see a red herring twitting about. A non Christian trying to identify real Christians. Cute. Moving on.



Did it ever occur to any of you far leftists that as a woman, Cecilie is just as qualified to speak on abortion rights as any woman to the far left of her?

The idea that she isn't qualified to speak on the issue due to her political opinion on abortion is uh... how can I say this? Sexist. Discriminatory. Nothing about her opinion disqualifies her from speaking on abortion or the ethics thereof. I can't speak to whether she has had children or not, but if she has, she would have far more experience on the issue of the humanity of a child than some people trying to pass off "a fetus isn't human" as scientific fact.

First off, you don’t get to say who is and ain’t a Christian. So you know, the trashy ho always bangs on about what a good Christian she is. SHE made that claim, not me. Second, the fact that you got to jump in on it tells me you are of the same ilk. You and trash like Mrs. fake Christian are no better then the pro abortion crowed. Just as loud, just as obnoxious.

 

[Crixus]

In this day and age, there is no reason for unwanted children. There is enough hell in this world. Birth control is better -- an ounce of prevention, as they say. But try being practical for once. Why would you force someone who is not willing or able to rear a child to have one and take on the life long commitment they already said they will not cannot do? What is wrong with that? Pushing adoption as a solution is not practical either--our adoption system is already full of kids who need parents.

Our abortion rate has been dropping steadily since 1980 and is now as low as when abortion was first made legal in 1973. That is good news and whatever we're doing right needs to continue, but banning abortion and making illegal again is not the answer. Better birth control and availability of family planning and public acceptance of careful contraception is the answer. Planned Parenthood is essential to this. Leave them alone.

Why do you insist on thinking that WE are forcing them to do anything? They forced THEMSELVES into that position by engaging in an act designed to produce the result they just said they don't want. I for one neither plan to feel guilty, nor to endorse infanticide, because some dumbass indulged in self-destructive behavior, got the obvious result, and is now whining to me because it's "unfair" that nature didn't reverse its rules for her "specialness".

Not sure I'm interested in your idea of "practical", which looks remarkably like the "practicality" shown by every evil dictator in human history: these people are inconvenient, so the "practical" thing to do is kill them. Pass.

Sex is not "self-destructive behavior." LOL It is one of the fundamental urges hardwired into our brains and people will NOT stop participating in it, no matter how much you scowl at them or wag your finger.

Of course you call it evil; what a shocker.

Poverty breeds all kinds of negative behaviors and poor outcomes that cost our government much more in the long run than a $600 termination of pregnancy. That is known, settled fact. If parents can't afford a child, why you are championing more of that, I am not sure.

Sex is frequently self-destructive behavior. "LOL" That you don't know this tells me everything I need to know about your life. Look at people who cheat on their spouses; people who get drunk and wake up next to a total stranger; people who wind up in therapy for sex addiction. Just because something is a fundamental urge doesn't mean that any and every expression of that urge is a good and positive thing for you. Eating is a whole lot more fundamental and necessary than sex, but I dare you to walk into a Weight Watchers and tell those people that that means eating can't ever be self-destructive.

Of course you think acknowledging that people should control and channel their urges is "calling it evil". Nothing shocking about a leftist being amoral and illogical at the same time.

Do not ******* start lecturing me on "If we just had more government giveaway programs, all problems would be solved, and we wouldn't have to stop ******* like crazed weasels."

I'm not championing parents having children they can't afford, you obtuse ****. I champion them not making extra children in the first place. But I don't think killing a child once you HAVE made it is any kind of solution. I'm afraid I just can't muster your level of soulless, cold-blooded evil.

Meh, you just pissed cause you got dumped for something younger.

 

[debbiedowner]

 

[Natural Citizen]

With the recent ruling in Alabama regarding abortion, and the eventual path towards SCOTUS to settle the issue, the obvious thing to do is to define what exactly the unborn is, something Roe vs. Wade shied away from doing. After all, the reason blacks were mistreated under the Constitution was because they were not identified as equals, they were 3/5 a human being.

There are but two possibilities from my vantage point. The government can't legislate morality. Only the people can address the problem.

1. They are a parasite, defined as an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism

2. Or they are a human being.

Which camp do you fall in?

What needs to be resolved is the morality of society.

That said, so long as we remove the unconstitutional federal jurisdiction and let the states handle it (the way the constitution is supposed to work), RvW will effectively be overturned overnight.

The states should treat it as a violent crime much like armed robbery, etc.

 

[AntonToo]

It is 100% relavant, because we can't even agree that an embryo without everything you just listed is not a person.

First things first.

I don't know about Buttercup, but I'm not planning to define reality based on what you or anyone else will agree with, especially since I know you dedicated pro-aborts will disagree until the end of time, based on nothing more than your personal desires.

SCIENCE agrees about what an embryo is. Pick up any embryology textbook from any medical school if you don't believe me. Reality doesn't need your approval.

Again, your science statements are just straight stupid - no one disagrees that it in fact an embryo. Disagreement is over this embryo being or not being A PERSON.

A person is simply a human being. And it is an undeniable scientific fact that the zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.

Please link to a single scientific reference to the word "being"

You are just playing symantics.

Embryo is no more "a being" than a few skin cells.

Definition of BEING

That sort of word-parsing probably makes you look brilliant to the other Cro-Mags, but it doesn't fly here.

First of all, from your own link:

: a living thing

Second of all, "human being" is a compound word, Mensa Boy. You might have heard your grammar school teacher mention it before you dropped out.

Definition of HUMAN BEING

Following that hyperlink, you get:

Definition of HUMAN

Maybe you should have learned how to use the dictionary thingie before preening yourself on being smarter than anyone.

Oh, and FYI, the word is "semantics", genius.

you can call it whatever the you want, it ain’t a person that anyone has any empathy for and it will in a civilized society never have rights over ACTUAL people you want to force into continuing pregnancy and having an unwanted child.

 

[beautress]

It is 100% relavant, because we can't even agree that an embryo without everything you just listed is not a person.

First things first.

I don't know about Buttercup, but I'm not planning to define reality based on what you or anyone else will agree with, especially since I know you dedicated pro-aborts will disagree until the end of time, based on nothing more than your personal desires.

SCIENCE agrees about what an embryo is. Pick up any embryology textbook from any medical school if you don't believe me. Reality doesn't need your approval.

Again, your science statements are just straight stupid - no one disagrees that it in fact an embryo. Disagreement is over this embryo being or not being A PERSON.

A person is simply a human being. And it is an undeniable scientific fact that the zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.

it is human 'life' but a post born PERSON is a human being.

AS for the illustration you got off on that implied human embryos could be a bird, reptile or pig, that is total hogwash. It is a human being in an early stage of development. A human being who cuts a first tooth is in a stage of development in which his pain is translated into a cry for help. A human being who commits to an act of unprotected sex that results in a mass of human cells implanting into its mother's womb is in the first stages of human development. The male participant in this pleasant gift of sex is the father, and the female participant is the mother. Their genes are combined into a brand new and separate human being, who like the father needing some female pleasure, needs a home. The time for her to elect not giving a new human being in his first stage of development should have read a book instead of having sex with someone who considered her just an object and possibly, vice-versa.

If you can kill a fetus, don't be surprised if the world doesn't just decide killing anyone who makes you feel obligated will just live with your murder and won't care for you or think of you ever again since your death was just an unpleasant occurance in a world full of murderous killers looking for a thrill of killing, which is the wont of serial killers.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. It was true then, and it will be true when women change the world into a place that accepts murderers without the blink of an eye or one iota of caring.

You kill your own, you get a world of killing ahead of you, and that's how it is. I did not make the rules of the world, I just know what they are. Don't shoot the messenger because you support killing unborn human beings (who will never be pigs, by the way), you're going to find the dice roll will be on you sooner than you think.

 

[buttercup]

I don't know about Buttercup, but I'm not planning to define reality based on what you or anyone else will agree with, especially since I know you dedicated pro-aborts will disagree until the end of time, based on nothing more than your personal desires.

SCIENCE agrees about what an embryo is. Pick up any embryology textbook from any medical school if you don't believe me. Reality doesn't need your approval.

Again, your science statements are just straight stupid - no one disagrees that it in fact an embryo. Disagreement is over this embryo being or not being A PERSON.

A person is simply a human being. And it is an undeniable scientific fact that the zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.

it is human 'life' but a post born PERSON is a human being.

AS for the illustration you got off on that implied human embryos could be a bird, reptile or pig, that is total hogwash. It is a human being in an early stage of development. A human being who cuts a first tooth is in a stage of development in which his pain is translated into a cry for help. A human being who commits to an act of unprotected sex that results in a mass of human cells implanting into its mother's womb is in the first stages of human development. The male participant in this pleasant gift of sex is the father, and the female participant is the mother. Their genes are combined into a brand new and separate human being, who like the father needing some female pleasure, needs a home. The time for her to elect not giving a new human being in his first stage of development should have read a book instead of having sex with someone who considered her just an object and possibly, vice-versa.

If you can kill a fetus, don't be surprised if the world doesn't just decide killing anyone who makes you feel obligated will just live with your murder and won't care for you or think of you ever again since your death was just an unpleasant occurance in a world full of murderous killers looking for a thrill of killing, which is the wont of serial killers.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. It was true then, and it will be true when women change the world into a place that accepts murderers without the blink of an eye or one iota of caring.

You kill your own, you get a world of killing ahead of you, and that's how it is. I did not make the rules of the world, I just know what they are. Don't shoot the messenger because you support killing unborn human beings (who will never be pigs, by the way), you're going to find the dice roll will be on you sooner than you think.

I hope that was actually addressed to PLAYTIME, not to me, because I agree with you, I was not the one who posted that illustration. I was the one who posted the meme mocking the misconceptions people have about the preborn. I think you accidentally quoted me instead of him.

 

[beautress]

Again, your science statements are just straight stupid - no one disagrees that it in fact an embryo. Disagreement is over this embryo being or not being A PERSON.

A person is simply a human being. And it is an undeniable scientific fact that the zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.

it is human 'life' but a post born PERSON is a human being.

AS for the illustration you got off on that implied human embryos could be a bird, reptile or pig, that is total hogwash. It is a human being in an early stage of development. A human being who cuts a first tooth is in a stage of development in which his pain is translated into a cry for help. A human being who commits to an act of unprotected sex that results in a mass of human cells implanting into its mother's womb is in the first stages of human development. The male participant in this pleasant gift of sex is the father, and the female participant is the mother. Their genes are combined into a brand new and separate human being, who like the father needing some female pleasure, needs a home. The time for her to elect not giving a new human being in his first stage of development should have read a book instead of having sex with someone who considered her just an object and possibly, vice-versa.

If you can kill a fetus, don't be surprised if the world doesn't just decide killing anyone who makes you feel obligated will just live with your murder and won't care for you or think of you ever again since your death was just an unpleasant occurance in a world full of murderous killers looking for a thrill of killing, which is the wont of serial killers.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. It was true then, and it will be true when women change the world into a place that accepts murderers without the blink of an eye or one iota of caring.

You kill your own, you get a world of killing ahead of you, and that's how it is. I did not make the rules of the world, I just know what they are. Don't shoot the messenger because you support killing unborn human beings (who will never be pigs, by the way), you're going to find the dice roll will be on you sooner than you think.

I hope that was actually addressed to PLAYTIME, not to me, because I agree with you, I was not the one who posted that illustration. I was the one who posted the meme mocking the misconceptions people have about the preborn. I think you accidentally quoted me instead of him.

Sorry. I thought you posted the gravestone picture that said "The fetus isn't human," "Skin cells are human too", "Ejaculation kills millions of humans", the cold-hearted commentary that "The Fetus is a Parasite," "Life doesn't begin at conception" (a lie), "The fetus is a clump of cells." (no, it's still the first stage in the life of a human being, and drinking alcohol at this time can render that infant without body parts or with a severely disfigured face.) "It's (only) a part of the woman's body" (not true, it is not like its mother genetically, and is the starting stage of an entirely different human being's life), and "the embryo isn't even alive." If it weren't alive it would not be forming cells to become organs, limbs, and features similar to other human beings by the DNA of that INDIVIDUAL life that is damn certainly not its mother, and it's not it's father. It is a new human being in its formative stage. Cute little sayings that are little white lies will never amount to the value of one unborn American that is savagely and brutally murdered and drug out of a woman's body. Not ever.

So I was answering the post you put in. Most people put something in their posts in the form of an answer to the person they are communicating with. I wish you had indicated the gravestone picture with the natty false narrative sayings in it was someone else's contribution, Buttercup. the right thing to do is to credit the "picture" to whoever posted that picture, and not leave it to the guesswork that it was your idea to bring it here.

 

[buttercup]

A person is simply a human being. And it is an undeniable scientific fact that the zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being.

it is human 'life' but a post born PERSON is a human being.

AS for the illustration you got off on that implied human embryos could be a bird, reptile or pig, that is total hogwash. It is a human being in an early stage of development. A human being who cuts a first tooth is in a stage of development in which his pain is translated into a cry for help. A human being who commits to an act of unprotected sex that results in a mass of human cells implanting into its mother's womb is in the first stages of human development. The male participant in this pleasant gift of sex is the father, and the female participant is the mother. Their genes are combined into a brand new and separate human being, who like the father needing some female pleasure, needs a home. The time for her to elect not giving a new human being in his first stage of development should have read a book instead of having sex with someone who considered her just an object and possibly, vice-versa.

If you can kill a fetus, don't be surprised if the world doesn't just decide killing anyone who makes you feel obligated will just live with your murder and won't care for you or think of you ever again since your death was just an unpleasant occurance in a world full of murderous killers looking for a thrill of killing, which is the wont of serial killers.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. It was true then, and it will be true when women change the world into a place that accepts murderers without the blink of an eye or one iota of caring.

You kill your own, you get a world of killing ahead of you, and that's how it is. I did not make the rules of the world, I just know what they are. Don't shoot the messenger because you support killing unborn human beings (who will never be pigs, by the way), you're going to find the dice roll will be on you sooner than you think.

I hope that was actually addressed to PLAYTIME, not to me, because I agree with you, I was not the one who posted that illustration. I was the one who posted the meme mocking the misconceptions people have about the preborn. I think you accidentally quoted me instead of him.

Sorry. I thought you posted the gravestone picture that said "The fetus isn't human," "Skin cells are human too", "Ejaculation kills millions of humans", the cold-hearted commentary that "The Fetus is a Parasite," "Life doesn't begin at conception" (a lie), "The fetus is a clump of cells." (no, it's still the first stage in the life of a human being, and drinking alcohol at this time can render that infant without body parts or with a severely disfigured face.) "It's (only) a part of the woman's body" (not true, it is not like its mother genetically, and is the starting stage of an entirely different human being's life), and "the embryo isn't even alive." If it weren't alive it would not be forming cells to become organs, limbs, and features similar to other human beings by the DNA of that INDIVIDUAL life that is damn certainly not its mother, and it's not it's father. It is a new human being in its formative stage. Cute little sayings that are little white lies will never amount to the value of one unborn American that is savagely and brutally murdered and drug out of a woman's body. Not ever.

So I was answering the post you put in. Most people put something in their posts in the form of an answer to the person they are communicating with. I wish you had indicated the gravestone picture with the natty false narrative sayings in it was someone else's contribution, Buttercup. the right thing to do is to credit the "picture" to whoever posted that picture, and not leave it to the guesswork that it was your idea to bring it here.

I did post that, but it was a meme showing those false statements with an image of a grave with the words "Here lies basic biology." In other words, people who say those things don't know basic biology.

I'm sorry if that meme was confusing at first glance, but as you can see by all my other posts, rest assured I am firmly pro-life.

 

[Dragonlady]

Let's settle it this way. The fetus is NOT a person. It is a potential person. It was NOT created or ordained of God. It is the physical product of human biology which makes it both the responsibility and the property of its actual creators - its parents

If it is the physical product of human biology, then why isn't this product also physically human?

Can you answer that for me?

If the fetus isn't human, how can you say two human parents created it? How can you say it is "the property" of the two obviously human creators?

Do you realize how badly this undercuts your entire argument?

Can it walk, talk or chew gum? Does a fetus have any sentient awareness? Can it survivie outside the womb? A fetus is a potential human but is a long, long way from being a human. Incidentally, my shit is a product of human biology and you're not granting it rights. You place far too much value on potential human life, and not nearly enough on the living, breathing human beings who created it and who will be responsible for raising the child to come, to be a functioning, self- sufficient, contributing member of society.

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Can it walk, talk or chew gum? Does a fetus have any sentient awareness? Can it survivie outside the womb?

First, as the child is developing in the womb, it is reliant on the nutrients supplied to it by the mother. Her diet and physical condition determine the health of the baby (assuming a full term pregnancy)

Second, after birth, the child is again reliant on either of its parents to feed and nurture it. The amount of nurturing the child gets determines whether the child lives or dies.

Third, throughout childhood, the child is dependent on the parents for basic needs. This period is when the child should be taught how to care for themself. How well the child learns to take care of themself through their teenage years and adulthood will determine if they live or die.

The one key similarity? Dependence.

Now, to wrap that up...

Your key argument is that since the fetus depends on the mother, the fetus is not human and therefore part of the mother. Since it has not yet developed "sentience" as you so define it, it is not human.

WRONG.

If we used your argument, then the fetus, the baby, and the child would not be human. If that child is born with a cognitive disorder that robs he or she of their sentience or awareness, they cease to be human. None would be human until they shed their dependency on their parents or gained/regained the "sentient awareness." For the next decade or two (or the rest of their life for that matter), the child/adult would be a "potential human".

Your argument is flawed. Your argument is emotional.

And since I am not a homeless man in San Francisco, I am not going to rifle through more of your garbage post.

Have a good morning.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You place far too much value on potential human life, and not nearly enough on the living, breathing human beings who created it and who will be responsible for raising the child to come, to be a functioning, self- sufficient, contributing member of society.

Oh... perhaps I lied.

"You place far too much value on potential human life"

You're damn right I do.

Because I know what that life will be if cared for properly and not discarded at the convenience of the oh so oppressed woman you keep describing in your posts.

"Potential"

How demeaning.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Given how hard that is, expecially when you're poor, I'd really rather people aren't forced to give birth to children they don't want or can't afford. Forcing poor women to have babies is ridiculous. The rich will just go to Canada.

Yanno, if you don't want to be sullied with the responsibility of a child, simply practice abstinence. If not that, birth control. Don't wait until it is developing in your womb to say "I want control of my body!"

YOU HAD CONTROL OF YOUR BODY BEFORE YOU SPREAD THOSE LEGS OF YOURS.

Now I'm dirty. Time for breakfast and a shower.