The Patriarchy

[Luddly Neddite]

it's never done to men.... male politicians can be as fat, unkempt and ugly as anything.

but I was amused when people called michelle obama fat or Hillary a "hag" (one loon did that this morning).

even the female politicians they say they like, they only talk about in terms of do-ability.

yeah, because NO ONE does a fat joke about Chris Christie.

NO ONE ever made a snide comment about the way Sarah Palin dressed.

Maybe but it was her total lack of a brain that embarrassed the country.

Just like good people come in all colors, dumb people come in both sexes.

BUT, there is a point here.

I call it The Puppy Test.

Every time you see someone treating an animal in a questionable way, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was a puppy. Greased pig contest? Baby pigs being tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies? Calf roping? Baby cows tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies?

Men and women, same criteria.

When the guy in the movie puts his hand on the supposedly equal woman, when he kisses her on the cheek, hugs her, pats her, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was another man.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

yeah, because NO ONE does a fat joke about Chris Christie.

NO ONE ever made a snide comment about the way Sarah Palin dressed.

Maybe but it was her total lack of a brain that embarrassed the country.

Just like good people come in all colors, dumb people come in both sexes.

BUT, there is a point here.

I call it The Puppy Test.

Every time you see someone treating an animal in a questionable way, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was a puppy. Greased pig contest? Baby pigs being tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies? Calf roping? Baby cows tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies?

Men and women, same criteria.

When the guy in the movie puts his hand on the supposedly equal woman, when he kisses her on the cheek, hugs her, pats her, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was another man.

Or maybe it is just because she is a republican woman.

Occam's razor and like that.

 

[martybegan]

You honest to God don't want to discuss this, Marty, you are making that abundantly clear. So I'm sure you will understand when I tell you I won't be responding to your attempts to muddy the waters.

So i won't agree with you, therefore I don't want to discuss. I made a point, and its a point you don't like, so instead of countering it, you ignore it, depreciate it, and make it seem like I am not "part of the discussion"

 

[martybegan]

Thank you, Jillian.

The whole denigration based on appearance thing really came into sharp relief for me with the Michelle Obama attacks. Nothing like making someone one-dimensional, and then demonizing them with the imaginary results.

I'll go into more specifics when next I wake, but she's not fat, she is not ugly, and how she LOOKS is superficial, anyway.

So you never judge anyone based on appearance? Even for a split second?

Unfortunately, women judge each other on appearance quite a bit. Women are downright vicious toward each other in that respect.

I've noted that in my workplace as well. I work in Engineering, which is still more male centric than female centric, and also has a higher proportion of awkward males at that. Women Engineers often find more flak from the administrative staff women than the other (mostly male) engineers.

Some of them are probably afraid of the women, and a lot just see a co-worker.

 

[BDBoop]

You honest to God don't want to discuss this, Marty, you are making that abundantly clear. So I'm sure you will understand when I tell you I won't be responding to your attempts to muddy the waters.

So i won't agree with you, therefore I don't want to discuss. I made a point, and its a point you don't like, so instead of countering it, you ignore it, depreciate it, and make it seem like I am not "part of the discussion"

Not for me, no. And you're not discussing it, you're taking shots and hoping something sticks. I've seen you do it before. You're free to do it here, of course; I just won't be responding.

You want to discuss the reality of a patriarchal system, I'd be happy to chat.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

You honest to God don't want to discuss this, Marty, you are making that abundantly clear. So I'm sure you will understand when I tell you I won't be responding to your attempts to muddy the waters.

So i won't agree with you, therefore I don't want to discuss. I made a point, and its a point you don't like, so instead of countering it, you ignore it, depreciate it, and make it seem like I am not "part of the discussion"

I have noticed a pattern.

You buy into Boop's victimhood, or your opinion is not valid. All contravening evidence is ignored.

She is right, you are wrong. Live with it.

 

[martybegan]

You honest to God don't want to discuss this, Marty, you are making that abundantly clear. So I'm sure you will understand when I tell you I won't be responding to your attempts to muddy the waters.

So i won't agree with you, therefore I don't want to discuss. I made a point, and its a point you don't like, so instead of countering it, you ignore it, depreciate it, and make it seem like I am not "part of the discussion"

Not for me, no. And you're not discussing it, you're taking shots and hoping something sticks. I've seen you do it before. You're free to do it here, of course; I just won't be responding.

You want to discuss the reality of a patriarchal system, I'd be happy to chat.

What "reality of a patriarchal system?" What systemic methods are in place to create and perpetuate such a system? And we are not discussing male/female individual roles here, or how some male/female traits lead men/women into different roles in society by nature. We are discussing systemic means of creating and fostering a patriarchy.

I'm all ears. And I don't want a quote-fest, or a link-dump, I would like to hear it in your own words.

 

[editec]

For some reason nobody wants to discuss the matter honestly and openly.

Do you really, BD?

Then you might start by dropping the genderist word PATRIARCHY.

It implies that all men are in on the game, that we are all served by it and that all women are victims of it.

Do you believe that nonsense?

Let me remind you that the second largest group of poor people in America are WHITE MEN.

Clearly if the patriarchy was truly that, then no men would be poor.

Perhaps it is time for feminism to grow up and acknowledge that what women and their menfolk are all suffering is CLASSISM.

 

[BDBoop]

For some reason nobody wants to discuss the matter honestly and openly.

Do you really, BD?

Then you might start by dropping the genderist word PATRIARCHY.

It implies that all men are in on the game, that we are all served by it and that all women are victims of it.

Do you believe that nonsense?

Let me remind you that the second largest group of poor people in America are WHITE MEN.

Clearly if the patriarchy was truly that, then no men would be poor.

Perhaps it is time for feminism to grow up and acknowledge that what women and their menfolk are all suffering is CLASSISM.

Oh, my goodness, what a load of shit. That made NO sense. None.

I can't even give you a "nice try, attaboy" for that one.

 

[martybegan]

For some reason nobody wants to discuss the matter honestly and openly.

Do you really, BD?

Then you might start by dropping the genderist word PATRIARCHY.

It implies that all men are in on the game, that we are all served by it and that all women are victims of it.

Do you believe that nonsense?

Let me remind you that the second largest group of poor people in America are WHITE MEN.

Clearly if the patriarchy was truly that, then no men would be poor.

Perhaps it is time for feminism to grow up and acknowledge that what women and their menfolk are all suffering is CLASSISM.

Oh, my goodness, what a load of shit. That made NO sense. None.

I can't even give you a "nice try, attaboy" for that one.

So your "ism" trumps his "ism"?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

NO ONE ever made a snide comment about the way Sarah Palin dressed.

Maybe but it was her total lack of a brain that embarrassed the country.

Just like good people come in all colors, dumb people come in both sexes.

BUT, there is a point here.

I call it The Puppy Test.

Every time you see someone treating an animal in a questionable way, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was a puppy. Greased pig contest? Baby pigs being tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies? Calf roping? Baby cows tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies?

Men and women, same criteria.

When the guy in the movie puts his hand on the supposedly equal woman, when he kisses her on the cheek, hugs her, pats her, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was another man.

Or maybe it is just because she is a republican woman.

Occam's razor and like that.

She's not Republican. She's tee potty and therefore, anti-American. And, she's stupid. She would think Occam's razor was a foreign country she could see from her front porch and you know it.

Its the right that consistently judges women by their looks. Many MANY here have said they would vote for $arah based on her looks. MANY were all agog because of her looks. And MANY have said they don't like Hillary because she's not beautiful.

 

[martybegan]

Maybe but it was her total lack of a brain that embarrassed the country.

Just like good people come in all colors, dumb people come in both sexes.

BUT, there is a point here.

I call it The Puppy Test.

Every time you see someone treating an animal in a questionable way, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was a puppy. Greased pig contest? Baby pigs being tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies? Calf roping? Baby cows tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies?

Men and women, same criteria.

When the guy in the movie puts his hand on the supposedly equal woman, when he kisses her on the cheek, hugs her, pats her, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was another man.

Or maybe it is just because she is a republican woman.

Occam's razor and like that.

She's not Republican. She's tee potty and therefore, anti-American. And, she's stupid. She would think Occam's razor was a foreign country she could see from her front porch and you know it.

Its the right that consistently judges women by their looks. Many MANY here have said they would vote for $arah based on her looks. MANY were all agog because of her looks. And MANY have said they don't like Hillary because she's not beautiful.

You calling ANYONE stupid is the type of thing that tears a hole in the space time continuum. Hopefully the damage will be limited to our own solar system.

 

[Disir]

Looks like somebody's been reading along at USMB!

Sociologist Sylvia Walby has composed six overlapping structures that define patriarchy and that take different forms in different cultures and different times:

• The state: women are unlikely to have formal power and representation
• The household: women are more likely to do the housework and raise the children.
• Violence: women are more prone to being abused
• Paid work: women are likely to be paid less
• Sexuality: Women's sexuality is more likely to be treated negatively
• Culture: women are more misrepresented in media and popular culture

Not listed, and what I see so often around here, is men (and some women) who get downright spiteful about those of us who believe that things should be different. That women should have equal power, representation, pay, and not be termed a slut or whore for choosing to be sexually active outside of marriage - you know. How men are without a second thought.

There is very much a patriarchy. Every time that there is an economic crisis the first message kicked out from Conservatives is for women to leave the work place and stay at home. Ex: Sharon Angle. Marriage is another huge push. Then you have people like Rand Paul who say educated things like women are taking jobs away from men. They aren't. Women are hired because they are paid less. It's GOP outreach. That brings me to pay. Men make a little more on the dollar. It isn't that women are gaining ground. Men are losing ground.

Now, how that filters down to those of us that don't mingle with the elite is a whole different ball game. Many upper middleclass and elite conservative women acquired power via their husbands or fathers. So, they send messages that promote and support their power base. Is religion useful? You betcha. Is one more repeated debate on how much more valuable stay at home mommies are useful? You betcha. How about marrying up? You betcha. It's about validation for them. It's also about not rocking their boat and maintaining the status quo. It's also a more palatable level of prostitution. It also has a tendency to put undue pressure and responsibility on males that they neither want or need.

I don't have the patience to wait for those men (and sometimes women) in my socioeconomic class to figure that out. Life is too short. Choose your filters wisely. I don't allow the media or a religion or anyone else define me. If the only argument that some internet keyboard warrior can make is to tell me (not having seen me, or even if they have) is that they think that I am ugly, it says more about what useful tools they are.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Maybe but it was her total lack of a brain that embarrassed the country.

Just like good people come in all colors, dumb people come in both sexes.

BUT, there is a point here.

I call it The Puppy Test.

Every time you see someone treating an animal in a questionable way, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was a puppy. Greased pig contest? Baby pigs being tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies? Calf roping? Baby cows tormented for fun. Would it be okay if it was puppies?

Men and women, same criteria.

When the guy in the movie puts his hand on the supposedly equal woman, when he kisses her on the cheek, hugs her, pats her, ask yourself if it would be okay if it was another man.

Or maybe it is just because she is a republican woman.

Occam's razor and like that.

She's not Republican. She's tee potty and therefore, anti-American. And, she's stupid. She would think Occam's razor was a foreign country she could see from her front porch and you know it.

Its the right that consistently judges women by their looks. Many MANY here have said they would vote for $arah based on her looks. MANY were all agog because of her looks. And MANY have said they don't like Hillary because she's not beautiful.

I can't stoop so far down to imagine what a truly small "mind" (for lack of a better description) that you have.

The small upshot here is that you demonstrate that male chauvinist pigs have a nice cozy home in the Democrat Party.