The other side of a harsh reality

[Baruch Menachem]

I have done my share of bashing teacher unions, bum teachers and the rest... but the reality is much of the problem in education is out of control little darlings, and the huge difficulty in maintaining discipline when kids act out.

I don't think we need to return to the days of the hickory switch.... (In Grant's memoirs he notes that every day kids brought knives to school, and the had use them to bring in the hickory switches that the teachers used for disciplline, five per kid) but there needs to be something to deal with situations like this. It required five adults plus an officer from the district to deal with this first grader. who wound up in handcuffs and sent to a mental institution.

 

[bodecea]

I have done my share of bashing teacher unions, bum teachers and the rest... but the reality is much of the problem in education is out of control little darlings, and the huge difficulty in maintaining discipline when kids act out.

I don't think we need to return to the days of the hickory switch.... (In Grant's memoirs he notes that every day kids brought knives to school, and the had use them to bring in the hickory switches that the teachers used for disciplline, five per kid) but there needs to be something to deal with situations like this. It required five adults plus an officer from the district to deal with this first grader. who wound up in handcuffs and sent to a mental institution.

Unfortunately, there are more and more kids like this to a lesser or greater degree....notice that the school had set up several meetings with the parents who failed to show....that happens a lot, so I've been told.

 

[Samson]

I have done my share of bashing teacher unions, bum teachers and the rest... but the reality is much of the problem in education is out of control little darlings, and the huge difficulty in maintaining discipline when kids act out.

I don't think we need to return to the days of the hickory switch.... (In Grant's memoirs he notes that every day kids brought knives to school, and the had use them to bring in the hickory switches that the teachers used for disciplline, five per kid) but there needs to be something to deal with situations like this. It required five adults plus an officer from the district to deal with this first grader. who wound up in handcuffs and sent to a mental institution.

"There needs to be something to deal with situations like what?" Kids with mental problems?

How about the school calls the parents and arranges meetings with them to discuss the kid's behaviour problem? THIS HAPPENED in THIS CASE.

The parents never showed.

How about arresting/fining the parents?

This has already been done.

Institutionalizing the kid?

Been done (BTW, I hope the parents get the bill.....those places aren't cheap).

The next step will be an evaluation of the child by the district, which will find that there's an emotional problem, and the girl will be sent to a special school that all districts have designed to deal with these kids. If you go to most school districts' webpage, these schools are omitted....unless you work there, or your kid goes there, its almost impossible to get the phone number and address of these "schools."

 

[Baruch Menachem]

It was my experience way back when that one kid could take up 85% of the teachers time. Remove that kid, and things would improve all out of proportion.

a) This should not have taken as long as it did. It should have been delt with way before it needed cops to deal with a six year old.

b) I like the idea of fining the parents for the kids disruption.


I've been told it is an old wives tale, but my understanding was that in the old Soviet system teachers were not allowed to touch the kids. Perioud. But..... parents were responsible for their kids behavior, and what went on at home was not questioned provided it wasn't anti state. Your kid behaved badly enough, the CheKa would pay you a visit. Second visit, you got to count trees and the kid wound up in an orphanage.

Also, the parents were expected to help school maintenance.

Anyway, it is not just one side to the problem

 

[Samson]

It was my experience way back when that one kid could take up 85% of the teachers time. Remove that kid, and things would improve all out of proportion.

a) This should not have taken as long as it did. It should have been delt with way before it needed cops to deal with a six year old.

b) I like the idea of fining the parents for the kids disruption.


I've been told it is an old wives tale, but my understanding was that in the old Soviet system teachers were not allowed to touch the kids. Perioud. But..... parents were responsible for their kids behavior, and what went on at home was not questioned provided it wasn't anti state. Your kid behaved badly enough, the CheKa would pay you a visit. Second visit, you got to count trees and the kid wound up in an orphanage.

Also, the parents were expected to help school maintenance.

Anyway, it is not just one side to the problem

Comparing Education in the USA with any other on Earth, or that ever has been on the planet, is futile.

You're point about timing is spot on. I didn't read the dates, but if these things happened recently (April) then this poor teacher, and the students in the class, has suffered since SEPTEMBER, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Eight months seems to be pretty common to deal with this sort of thing, and this is how it went down:

Month One September: Teacher Notices There's A Problem

Month Two October: Teacher tries to deal with the problem using whatever classroom techniques she has

Month Three November: Teacher Calls Parents: Parents Ignore Teacher

Month Four December: Teacher Bites the Bullet until Winter Break Begins

Month Five January: Teacher, refreshed from the Break, tries more classroom techniques and enlists the help of administration

Month Six February: More In School Disciplinary Action (Student is sent to office, parked in other teachers classes, in school suspension, etc.)

Month Seven March: Principal Calls Parents: Parents Ignore Principal

Month Eight April: Principal Calls Police

 

[beowolfe]

I have done my share of bashing teacher unions, bum teachers and the rest... but the reality is much of the problem in education is out of control little darlings, and the huge difficulty in maintaining discipline when kids act out.

I don't think we need to return to the days of the hickory switch.... (In Grant's memoirs he notes that every day kids brought knives to school, and the had use them to bring in the hickory switches that the teachers used for disciplline, five per kid) but there needs to be something to deal with situations like this. It required five adults plus an officer from the district to deal with this first grader. who wound up in handcuffs and sent to a mental institution.

If it takes five adults and a police officer to deal with a first grader, maybe the hickory switches should be brought back. Afterall, it only takes a single teacher and a single hickory switch to deal with a first grader.

 

[Samson]

I have done my share of bashing teacher unions, bum teachers and the rest... but the reality is much of the problem in education is out of control little darlings, and the huge difficulty in maintaining discipline when kids act out.

I don't think we need to return to the days of the hickory switch.... (In Grant's memoirs he notes that every day kids brought knives to school, and the had use them to bring in the hickory switches that the teachers used for disciplline, five per kid) but there needs to be something to deal with situations like this. It required five adults plus an officer from the district to deal with this first grader. who wound up in handcuffs and sent to a mental institution.

If it takes five adults and a police officer to deal with a first grader, maybe the hickory switches should be brought back. Afterall, it only takes a single teacher and a single hickory switch to deal with a first grader.

It doesn't take 5 adults to deal with a first grader.

It takes 5 adults to deal with a first grader, their absent parents, and the ACLU Lawyers always ready to pounce upon anything that might be construed as a Violation of Anyone's Rights.

 

[MaggieMae]

I have done my share of bashing teacher unions, bum teachers and the rest... but the reality is much of the problem in education is out of control little darlings, and the huge difficulty in maintaining discipline when kids act out.

I don't think we need to return to the days of the hickory switch.... (In Grant's memoirs he notes that every day kids brought knives to school, and the had use them to bring in the hickory switches that the teachers used for disciplline, five per kid) but there needs to be something to deal with situations like this. It required five adults plus an officer from the district to deal with this first grader. who wound up in handcuffs and sent to a mental institution.

I agree that something's going on. I can't go to the supermarket anymore but one or more little child is literally screaming, or pulling on the parent and whining about something. Just this morning at the pharmacy standing in line, not one but TWO unrelated parent/child situations almost made me want to escape and come back later. One little girl was dressed in a filthy dress, sneakers with holes in the toes and a winter coat (it was 79 degrees and sunny at the time). Her hair uncombed and filthy fingernails, she looked straight out of a Dickens novel. She was the one who stood there and stared at me, like she could set me on fire if she concentrated hard enough. The other was a small boy who was a climber--all over people, up onto the counter, into people's carts, all the while jabbering like a little monkey. All this went on while the two mothers said nothing, like it was perfectly "normal." Makes you wonder what their home life is like.

When I see everything going on with younger generations, I do have to wonder if the evolutionary process isn't taking steps backward.

 

[MaggieMae]

It was my experience way back when that one kid could take up 85% of the teachers time. Remove that kid, and things would improve all out of proportion.

a) This should not have taken as long as it did. It should have been delt with way before it needed cops to deal with a six year old.

b) I like the idea of fining the parents for the kids disruption.


I've been told it is an old wives tale, but my understanding was that in the old Soviet system teachers were not allowed to touch the kids. Perioud. But..... parents were responsible for their kids behavior, and what went on at home was not questioned provided it wasn't anti state. Your kid behaved badly enough, the CheKa would pay you a visit. Second visit, you got to count trees and the kid wound up in an orphanage.

Also, the parents were expected to help school maintenance.

Anyway, it is not just one side to the problem

Well I certainly didn't grow up in the Soviet Union, but when I attended grammar and high school, teachers were not allowed to touch the students. They could yell at them, and tell them to leave the class and report to the principal's office, but that was all. I remember in the sixth grade getting yelled at by a teacher (but I can't remember why). She was just an angry person and yelled at all of us for minor infractions. When I told my parents, their response was "What did you do?" My point is that nowadays, parents usually never think it's their kids who did something wrong; it's always the teacher's fault.