The Origin of Life

[frigidweirdo]

It is undeniable that life started once on Earth. Only once. A one time event never repeated.
What are the implications of that fact?

Not necessarily true. Life could have come many times to Earth. Life potentially came from asteroids. How many times has Earth been hit by asteroids? How many times could life have been spread from those asteroids.

 

[Taz]

Eternal can only apply from the moment said thing appeared and then going forward. And everything has a beginning, it has to. Logically, that is.

Dude, do you even definition?

Nothing is "eternal" in the literal sense because you can't have existed before you appeared on the scene. You can only be eternal from the point of existence onward.

If you believe that then you are doomed to the first cause conundrum.

I am telling you the solution to the first cause conundrum.

I know it's confusing, Taz. Don't feel bad.

This is pretty simple. The only answer to the question of what came before that, that avoids an infinite do loop, is something that has always existed and is unchanging. That's it. There is no other solution.

Still makes no sense. Last try.

 

[Dr Grump]

The universe is not complicated, gump. The universe is complex.

Are you the one claiming the universe can't be explained by natural phenomena? Not me, that's for sure.

In fact, beings that know and create were pre-ordained to arise according to the natural laws. Laws which existed before space and time were created. We are no accident, gump. Our existence was programmed into the Laws of Nature.

Yeah, and I see the laws of nature as nothing but a bunch of hap hazard chemical equations coming into being. Not some fairy tale like you guys are supposing.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

Not some fairy tale like you guys are supposing.

there has not been an argument in this thread for the Almighty, their desert version anyway.

 

[indiajo]

It is undeniable that life started once on Earth. Only once. A one time event never repeated.
What are the implications of that fact?

That is by no means undeniable.
We have not the slightest idea how exactly, and how often it started.
The biochemical priciple is pretty clear, but we don_t lnow and we cannot find out how many attempts were a total failure. If we go by the known facts of natural evolution, ther must have been a lot of failures.

 

[indiajo]

Whatever or whichever. As far as Earth is concerned life took hold exactly once. A little odd isn’t it?

there is an approximate time life began on Earth that for all intense and purpose has never stooped - are you saying that process could not still be possible. it may have been due to extreme ideal conditions that are no longer present due in part to the life that did evolve.

Im not saying that the process isn't still possible. I'm saying that it isn't happening...possible or not. And that leads to some very interesting speculations.
Science lags in the popular mind no matter what they tell you. We are long past Darwin's "warm little pond". Didnt happen that way. We are past thinking that it was an amazing one in a gazillion chance that took place after billions of years of bumping and cooking and shuffling molecules. We now know life was established for 90% of the history of the Earth if not more. Blink of an eye almost...within a few hundred million years of Earth's cooling off.

And we know it happened once and only once on Earth. Never before and never since. (The ones to watch and read on this are Nick Lane and Peter Mitchell.) ATP Synaphase is the key to this idea. As important to biology as the speed of light is to physics.
And, for other reasons, we can be fairly sure there is no life anywhere else in the Universe. I'll leave that alone for now though.
Buy why only once? Thats the question with philosophical ramifications to me. Scientifically it is unexpected. As you said "whats changed"? And as far as I know there are no theories addressing it.

This is wrong on so many levels.

 

[DOTR]

It is undeniable that life started once on Earth. Only once. A one time event never repeated.
What are the implications of that fact?

That is by no means undeniable.
We have not the slightest idea how exactly, and how often it started.
The biochemical priciple is pretty clear, but we don_t lnow and we cannot find out how many attempts were a total failure. If we go by the known facts of natural evolution, ther must have been a lot of failures.

No sir you are in the realm of fantasy..not facts. We have no examples of failures and we have no indication that it took failures to produce success.
We do have an idea of how it may have started but I will admit no firm idea.
Here is the fact...we observe life from one event and only one event. The rest is speculation.

But humor me here. Assume that what we have in evidence is true. Life started once and it started very quickly. IF that were true what would it imply to you?

 

[BreezeWood]

we can be fairly sure there is no life anywhere else in the Universe. I'll leave that alone for now though.

Life started once and it started very quickly.

IF that were true what would it imply to you?

the first two are contradictory .... the latter is relevant throughout the universe.


life is possible wherever the metaphysical axioms are able to create the physiology to sustain the axioms cohesion for objective reasoning.

 

[task0778]

It is undeniable that life started once on Earth. Only once. A one time event never repeated.
What are the implications of that fact?

That is by no means undeniable.
We have not the slightest idea how exactly, and how often it started.
The biochemical priciple is pretty clear, but we don_t lnow and we cannot find out how many attempts were a total failure. If we go by the known facts of natural evolution, ther must have been a lot of failures.

No sir you are in the realm of fantasy..not facts. We have no examples of failures and we have no indication that it took failures to produce success.
We do have an idea of how it may have started but I will admit no firm idea.
Here is the fact...we observe life from one event and only one event. The rest is speculation.

But humor me here. Assume that what we have in evidence is true. Life started once and it started very quickly. IF that were true what would it imply to you?

We know that life started at least once, but we do not know if it started more than once or in more than one place. And we do not know for sure that life on earth began here or somehow found it's way here. Nor do we know that life started very quickly, where is the evidence for that?

 

[ChesBayJJ]

life is possible wherever the metaphysical axioms are able to create the physiology to sustain the axioms cohesion for objective reasoning.

What a bunch of hocus-pocus nonsense

 

[BreezeWood]

life is possible wherever the metaphysical axioms are able to create the physiology to sustain the axioms cohesion for objective reasoning.

What a bunch of hocus-pocus nonsense

.

What a bunch of hocus-pocus nonsense

oh, explain where the physiology on earth came from and how it functions ... and why it disappears when "lifeless" -

* physiology is the physical presence of the metaphysical axioms, as stated. or try something other than hocus-pocus for a response.

 

[ding]

You sure are skipping a lot of steps. I'm only telling you what the attributes must be for the solution to the first cause conundrum, bro. You're the one filling in the gaps.

Naw, it's all pretty simple. You don't get to question something as fascinating and complicated as the universe and say it can't be explained by natural phenomena over billions of years, so therefore this being that has 'always' been around went 'abracadabra' and everything just happened and that is somehow more believable.

The universe is not complicated, gump. The universe is complex.

Are you the one claiming the universe can't be explained by natural phenomena? Not me, that's for sure.

In fact, beings that know and create were pre-ordained to arise according to the natural laws. Laws which existed before space and time were created. We are no accident, gump. Our existence was programmed into the Laws of Nature.

Our existence was not pre-programmed. Evolution does not predict. We are the product of countless chemical reactions and evolutionary changes over billions of years. The laws of physics and chance alone led to the creativity that now exists in the mind of man.

Untrue. We arose through the laws of nature. The potential for us to exist existed before space and time existed because the laws of nature were in place before space and time were created.

The potential for beings that know and create was programmed into the fabric of the laws of nature. We live in a universe where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will eventually arise. Nothing accidental about that.

 

[ding]

Dude, do you even definition?

Nothing is "eternal" in the literal sense because you can't have existed before you appeared on the scene. You can only be eternal from the point of existence onward.

If you believe that then you are doomed to the first cause conundrum.

I am telling you the solution to the first cause conundrum.

I know it's confusing, Taz. Don't feel bad.

This is pretty simple. The only answer to the question of what came before that, that avoids an infinite do loop, is something that has always existed and is unchanging. That's it. There is no other solution.

Still makes no sense. Last try.

Try googling eternal.

 

[ding]

The universe is not complicated, gump. The universe is complex.

Are you the one claiming the universe can't be explained by natural phenomena? Not me, that's for sure.

In fact, beings that know and create were pre-ordained to arise according to the natural laws. Laws which existed before space and time were created. We are no accident, gump. Our existence was programmed into the Laws of Nature.

Yeah, and I see the laws of nature as nothing but a bunch of hap hazard chemical equations coming into being. Not some fairy tale like you guys are supposing.

There is nothing hap hazard about it. Everything has been controlled by natural processes. The fabric for life is built into the laws of nature.