The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Sixties Fan]

Later Amidror said that it was always clear that NILI was significant as the first intelligence agency of the Jews in the Land of Israel. But until now it was not clear how the British Empire regarded the organization. Amidror, relying on research by his colleague Ephraim Halevy, a former head of the Mossad, said that documents from British espionage agency MI6 explicitly mention NILI as an organization that contributed to the intelligence capabilities of the British Mandate and to its capability to conquer Palestinian from Ottoman rule.

It furthermore arises that when the Balfour Declaration was worded, a draft of the declaration was sent to Aharonson so that he could say what he thought of it. "Such a gesture surely testifies to good relations and relations of honor between the British intelligence and NILI in general, and Aharon Aharonson in particular," Amidror said.

The NILI organization was a highly important source of intelligence for the State of Israel, and later became a significant tool for the establishment of the Jewish State. Amidror said: "It is important to understand, our military, as strong as it may be, serves a small country with relatively few resources, but the intelligence apparatus this country has is among the best around. Good intelligence enables us to choose and focus and most important and significant points for the country's resilience and thus to utilize the limited resources the military has in the best possible way."

(full article online)

Just how important was Jewish underground in WWI?

 

[Sixties Fan]

WATCH: Harvard’s Prof. Alan Dershowitz Debunks Challenges to Israel’s Legitimacy

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[JoelT1]

Palestine: Roman name for Jews’ land

 

[JoelT1]

“For Arabs, there was no country called palestine”

 

[Sixties Fan]

Were the same vote held today, the 193 General Assembly members would likely vote, perhaps overwhelmingly, against Jewish statehood. The Arab and Muslim states would vote “nay”—as they did uniformly in 1947—for reasons of ideology. But many others would follow suit out of self-interest and a desire not to annoy the world’s Arabs and Muslims—because the Arab and Muslim worlds offer giant actual and potential markets for goods and services, because much of the world’s oil is in their grip, because they sit astride international air, land, and sea routes, because of Arab-Muslim clout in international forums, and because of the presence of Arab and/or Muslim minorities in the midst of majority non-Arab and non-Muslim countries.

But the truth is that back in 1947, too, most of the world’s states had good, concrete reasons to vote with the Arabs. Then, too, there were potential markets, communications routes, oil wells, Muslim minorities—and there were big powers like France, Britain, and the U.S. that had or hoped to establish military bases in Muslim lands. Given the cold-war background, the powers, including the U.S. and the USSR, had good reason to rally or keep the Arabs and Muslims onside. As the Indian prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, wrote to Albert Einstein on July 11, 1947, explaining by implication why India with its large Muslim minority was going to vote “nay”: “national policies are unfortunately essentially selfish policies. Each country thinks of its own interest first.”

(full article online)

The UN Partition Vote in November 1947 Was Important, but Not Crucial

 

[JoelT1]

Israel “created” in 1948? Ancient history says otherwise

 

[Sixties Fan]

This entire story, especially the Sultan's supposed response to Herzl, is a complete myth.

Herzl did meet the Sultan, in May 1901. And I can find no record of anything close to what the Sultan supposedly said. The earliest mention I can find of this story is from a message board in 2000.

I cannot find a single book that mentions this story.

The American Jewish Yearbook at the time summarized Herzl's meeting this way:

-------------------
A number of reasons are given for the failure of the negotiations, but the Sultan's undying love for Palestine is not one of them..

(full article online)

Did the Sultan tell Herzl that he would rather die than give Palestine to Jews? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[JoelT1]

Israel created in 1948? Long, long before

Ancient shekel of Israel Silver shekel of the First Jewish Revolt from Rome - Google Arts & Culture

 

[Sixties Fan]

We know it was inspired by the sacrifice of British, Australian, New Zealand, Indian and Palestinian Jewish fighters.

The liberation of Jerusalem on December 11, 1917, exactly a century ago, was the final act in a triumvirate of significant historic events that year, the other two being the Balfour Declaration and the victory at the Battle of Beersheva. During this auspicious, short period, Christian Zionist politicians, generals, soldiers and Jewish spies in Palestine forced open the door that paved the way for the restoration of the land of Israel for the Jewish people.

That door began to close by 1919 when Jew-hating British administrators, brought up to Jerusalem from Egypt, reneged on their duty to carry out orders. In a treasonable act of defiance and antisemitism, they ignored official British policy.

Gen. Money, the chief administrator, ordered that “The walled city of Jerusalem is placed out of orders to all Jewish soldiers from the 14th to the 22nd April inclusive.”

It was no coincidence that this period was the pilgrim festival of Passover.

This outraged Col. John Patterson, the commanding officer of the Jewish Legion, who wrote, “I cannot conceive a greater act of provocation to Jewish soldiers, or a greater insult. Not since the days of Emperor Hadrian had such a humiliating decree been issued.”

The Balfour Declaration stipulated that His Majesty’s Government would use its “best endeavors to facilitate the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.”

(full article online)

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/1917-and-the-liberation-of-Jerusalem-514659

 

[JoelT1]

Israel created in 1948? Much, much earlier Silver shekel of the Second Jewish Revolt from Rome - Google Arts & Culture

 

[Sixties Fan]

Dore Gold: Is It True the UN Created Israel? 70 Years since UN General Assembly Resolution 181
It is often incorrectly asserted that the United Nations created the State of Israel by means of UN General Assembly Resolution 181, what is also known as the Partition Plan, which was adopted on November 29, 1947, 70 years ago. That is completely untrue.

UN Resolution 181 called explicitly for an independent Jewish state alongside of an Arab state and provided international legitimacy for the Jewish claim to statehood. It was a morally significant action, but like all UN General Assembly resolutions, it was not legally binding.

What established Israel was not the action of the UN. What actually established Israel was the Declaration of Independence by Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, on May 15, 1948. To this day, what establishes states are not actions in the UN, despite what Mahmoud Abbas might hope.

When I served as Israel's ambassador to the UN, a campaign began which called for reviving Resolution 181, led by the Palestinian UN Observer, Nasser al-Qudwa. At the time, Israeli Foreign Minister Ariel Sharon said to me, "Go back to Ben-Gurion's speech in the Knesset from December 1949."

When Arab armies converged on the nascent State of Israel, put Jerusalem under siege, and bombarded the Old City with artillery, the UN did nothing. As Ben-Gurion told the Israeli Knesset in December 1949, "The UN didn't lift a finger."

Ben-Gurion declared, "We cannot regard the decision of the 29th of November 1947 as being possessed of any further moral force since the UN did not succeed in implementing its own decisions." Eight days later he moved the capital of Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem just as the Jewish state was being reborn.

Is It True the UN Created Israel? Seventy years since UN General Assembly Resolution 181

 

[JoelT1]

Israel created in 1948? Much, much, earlier Huqoq Excavation Project

 

[P F Tinmore]

Dore Gold: Is It True the UN Created Israel? 70 Years since UN General Assembly Resolution 181
It is often incorrectly asserted that the United Nations created the State of Israel by means of UN General Assembly Resolution 181, what is also known as the Partition Plan, which was adopted on November 29, 1947, 70 years ago. That is completely untrue.

UN Resolution 181 called explicitly for an independent Jewish state alongside of an Arab state and provided international legitimacy for the Jewish claim to statehood. It was a morally significant action, but like all UN General Assembly resolutions, it was not legally binding.

What established Israel was not the action of the UN. What actually established Israel was the Declaration of Independence by Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, on May 15, 1948. To this day, what establishes states are not actions in the UN, despite what Mahmoud Abbas might hope.

When I served as Israel's ambassador to the UN, a campaign began which called for reviving Resolution 181, led by the Palestinian UN Observer, Nasser al-Qudwa. At the time, Israeli Foreign Minister Ariel Sharon said to me, "Go back to Ben-Gurion's speech in the Knesset from December 1949."

When Arab armies converged on the nascent State of Israel, put Jerusalem under siege, and bombarded the Old City with artillery, the UN did nothing. As Ben-Gurion told the Israeli Knesset in December 1949, "The UN didn't lift a finger."

Ben-Gurion declared, "We cannot regard the decision of the 29th of November 1947 as being possessed of any further moral force since the UN did not succeed in implementing its own decisions." Eight days later he moved the capital of Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem just as the Jewish state was being reborn.

Is It True the UN Created Israel? Seventy years since UN General Assembly Resolution 181

Indeed, I have been saying for years that resolution181 was not implemented and has no meaning.

 

[JoelT1]

Israel existed long, long before the UN and Britain

 

[Sixties Fan]

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Two recent books make an important contribution to the study of the Palestinian Nakba. Dr. Adel Manna explores the 1948 fall of the Galilee, based on memories of local Arab inhabitants; while Professor Eliezer Tauber debunks the myth of the Deir Yassin massacre, which became one of the Nakba’s foundational events as early as 1948. These studies pave the road to reassessing the Palestinian tragedy within the conflict’s past, present, and future wider context: Jewish localities were occupied by Arabs in the 1948 war, war crimes were perpetrated against Jews by Arabs, and present-day Palestinian schoolbooks continue to incite the perpetration of war crimes against Jews.

Two important Hebrew-language books were published recently: Deir Yassin: The End of the Myth by Eliezer Tauber (Kinneret, Zmora-Bitan, Dvir 2017), and Nakba and Survival: The Story of the Palestinians Who Remained in Haifa and the Galilee, 1948-1956 by Adel Manna (Van Leer Institute Press, Hakibbutz Hameuhad Publishing House 2017). The value of these books emanates from their comprehensive presentation of data and facts hitherto not discussed.

(full article online)

Reflections on Deir Yassin, the Nakba, and War Crimes

 

[JoelT1]

Israel existed long, long before the UN and Britain Silver shekel of the Second Jewish Revolt, struck over a denarius of the Emperor Hadrian – Smarthistory

Israe

 

[montelatici]

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - British street artist Banksy has offered a royal “apology” engraved on Israel’s barrier in the occupied West Bank for Britain’s endorsement a century ago of the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

At West Bank tea party, artist Banksy offers royal 'apology' for Balfour Declaration

 

[Hollie]

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - British street artist Banksy has offered a royal “apology” engraved on Israel’s barrier in the occupied West Bank for Britain’s endorsement a century ago of the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

At West Bank tea party, artist Banksy offers royal 'apology' for Balfour Declaration

No kidding, a street artist? Did he paint some graffiti?

 

[JoelT1]

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - British street artist Banksy has offered a royal “apology” engraved on Israel’s barrier in the occupied West Bank for Britain’s endorsement a century ago of the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

At West Bank tea party, artist Banksy offers royal 'apology' for Balfour Declaration

Birdbrain: Correct historical names of the land are Judea and Samaria, ancient Jewish land dating back to Jesus’ time and earlier