The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[P F Tinmore]

Some history of Arab-Moslem colonialism.

What were the Native Americans called before it was America?

 

[Shusha]

What were the Native Americans called before it was America?

What difference would that make?

 

[P F Tinmore]

What were the Native Americans called before it was America?

What difference would that make?

I thought it was an understandable question in reference to that post.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

 

[P F Tinmore]

From Hasbara to the ‘New Historians’: Demythologizing Israel and Developing a Critical Perspective

 

[Hollie]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Gaza: Settler Colonialism, Apartheid and Resistance - Panel Discussion

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel spends billions a year bombing a myth?

 

[Hollie]

Israel spends billions a year bombing a myth?

Yes. Identify for us the bombing the billions of dollars spent by Israel during this calendar year, not yet over.

Maybe do a comparison of the welfare fraud money used by you Islamic terrorist heroes in Hamas for islamo-tunneling.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

I wasn't outraged at all.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

That's odd. Other than the melodramatic title of your usual cutting and pasting of a YouTube video, There is no indication I can find of such pro-islamic terrorist protests "sweeping" anywhere.

"Shirley", you can cut and paste more YouTube videos?

 

[Challenger]

The word goy means a nation or people as rylah has already pointed out. It has taken on a pejorative connotation in modern times,

Yes, mainly by young Zionist Israeli supremacists and racists, I agree.

It has been my experience that all people who use these foreign-to-them words in normal speech do so in order to introduce that pejorative connotation into their comments.

You have a very warped and perverted experience then.

In this particular case, you had already used the term "outsider" to describe yourself as not being Jewish, the addition of the term goy was therefore not necessary except to add this negative connotation -- a connotation that the Jewish people view goyim with disgust -- a very old anti-semitic libel.

As I said, you have a very warped view of the world, apparently ascribing motive where none exists. If I wanted to call you names, I would do, plainly and bluntly.

You have since also used the Hebrew word hasbara which has the simple meaning of "explaining" but which you also imbue with a negative connotation of intentional deceit -- also a very old anti-semitic libel.

Hasbara has come to mean much more than "explaining". Without going into too much detail, suffice to say it's now synonomous with "Zionist Bullshit".

As for your childish accusations of anti-Semitism..."An Anti-Semite used to be a person who disliked Jews, now it is a person who Jews dislike"- Dr. Hajo Meyer

 

[Challenger]

... there has never been a "Jewish People (ethnicity)" ...

This is objectively unsupportable (read: silly argument).

eth·nic·i·ty
eTHˈnisədē/
noun

1. the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

I used "ethicity" to differentiate from "religious group", which is what Jewish people are. There has never been a Jewish "race" if you prefer to use that term.

 

[Challenger]

So you are admitting that Challenger does not hate all Jews, just the "fucking Jews."

This actually has quite a bit of truth to it. See, Jews are nice. But Jewish Israelis (aka Zionists) are -- what did he say? -- oh yeah, rude and boorish. See the "new anti-semitism" separates the Jewish people into two groups -- the "nice" ones, who are more or less invisible and the "evil" ones who want such atrocious things as equal treatment and self-determination in their ancestral homeland.

I think there is a tendancy to lump Jews all together even though they live in many countries and have many different views on the world. However, I'd like to know exactly WHY he thinks all Israeli's are "rude and boorish" - Israel is a melting pot culture and they're all "rude and boorish"? Dividing a group into "good" and "bad" based on a broad brush approach like that is suspect because it singles out one nationality as "bad" rather than acknowledging the diversity that exists in reality.

Good point. Unfortunately this is what Palestinians tend to do in their public pronouncements, lump all "jews" together. It doesn't matter to them that there are Jewish people who are not Zionists; their day to day experience is with those who oppress and brutalise them. In such circumstances, "all Jews are the same" becomes the perception. Did I say all Israelis are rude and boorish or just the ones I've personally encountered?

 

[Challenger]

Dr Hani Faris: Historical Context of the Palestinian Maps: Fact and Fiction

Well, that was an hour and ten minutes of irrelevant garbage and about ten minutes of substance about the maps. So let's talk about the maps and why they are deliberately deceptive.

Starting with Map #1, the mostly green colored map labelled "Palestine" and 1946. There are two problems with the map as it is presented.

First, regardless of what the term "Palestine" meant in the 1800s, or in 1917 or in 1922 or in the mandate period, the commonly understood regular meaning of the word in our modern times is based upon the "Palestinian people" and that means specifically the Arab Muslim and Christian peoples who lived in the territory in question. Thus, in modern times, when one attaches the name "Palestine" to a map, one is implying rather strongly that the territory in question "belongs" specifically and only to the Arab Muslim and Christians. Thus, it specifically and deliberately eliminates the Jewish "Palestinians" or Jewish people from the picture. Quite literally erasing them from the map. That's a deception.

But, you are going to say, the Jewish "Palestinians" or Jewish people ARE shown on the map in the little areas in yellow. And that brings me to the second problem. This map conflates the ethnicity of land owners with sovereignty as though the one is dependent upon the other. The map assigns land not under individual private ownership to the Arab Muslim and Christian "Palestinians". And the map also introduces the idea that minorities have fewer or no rights because they are a minority. The map asserts that nearly the entire territory was "owned" by Arab Muslims and Christians, again erasing Jewish "Palestinians" (people) from the map.

So let's go back to the map of 1946 and make a more accurate representation.

Let's use this one. And instead of labelling it "Palestine", let's label the area in blue:

1946. The Territory of the British Mandate set aside for the Jewish People in order to re-constitute their National Homeland, held in trust for the Peoples who reside there, pending their achievement of Independence.

If that was an accurate map, Palestine would have "British Mandate" in brackets like Syria (French Mandate) depicted. Israel Facts? Yeah, right, whatever.