The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Shusha]

the Children of Israel had not already been put into servitude as slaves and kept from leaving Egypt.

Maybe this is where the Egyptians got the labor force needed to build the Pyramid’s and to show their gratitude Joseph was laid down in one of them.

If so I bet it was the smallest pyramid.

dis-clamor: I am just guessing

Sigh. The labor force used for the building of the pyramids is well researched and understood. We don't need your speculation.

 

[Shusha]

stop annoying the Jewish People with your leaders infantile ideas on how to steal the Jewish Land from the Jewish people.

I am doing no such thing. There was a Jewish land, it just wasn't the land falsely claimed today as "Israel".

Oh, please do enlighten us. Where is this Jewish land you claim?

 

[watchingfromafar]

You are a nut case who does not want the Jews to have their ancestral land. Period.

I tried to find that ancient map of "Israel"; and this is what I found---

No "Israel" could be found-----

 

[Sixties Fan]

stop annoying the Jewish People with your leaders infantile ideas on how to steal the Jewish Land from the Jewish people.

I am doing no such thing. There was a Jewish land, it just wasn't the land falsely claimed today as "Israel".

Oh, please do enlighten us. Where is this Jewish land you claim?

I kind of thought he was more than clear about it.

EGYPT

We, the Jewish People, must leave the land of "Palestine" to the indigenous "Palestinians" and return.....apparently by force.....to Egypt.

So much understanding of what the Exodus was all about.

But someone like him/her.....has got to do it.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Then I looked once again and found this-----------

Still, no Israel could be found

Please, help me find that ancient map of Israel !!!!!!!

Canaan is on that map.

 

[Shusha]

stop annoying the Jewish People with your leaders infantile ideas on how to steal the Jewish Land from the Jewish people.

I am doing no such thing. There was a Jewish land, it just wasn't the land falsely claimed today as "Israel".

Oh, please do enlighten us. Where is this Jewish land you claim?

I kind of thought he was more than clear about it.

EGYPT

We, the Jewish People, must leave the land of "Palestine" to the indigenous "Palestinians" and return.....apparently by force.....to Egypt.

So much understanding of what the Exodus was all about.

But someone like him/her.....has got to do it.

I honestly didn't think anyone could be that nutty.

 

[watchingfromafar]

The truth about the Jewish indigenous reality to the Land of Israel brings you pain, it is your pain to deal with.

The pain you feel is the pain of knowing that "Israel" is not your true homeland even after showing you where your great leaders were burred and after producing ancient maps showing no place called Israel and still you live in denial.

I truly feel sorry for you and will no longer challenge you on this subject.
May you and yours live long and prosper

bye.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You are a nut case who does not want the Jews to have their ancestral land. Period.

I tried to find that ancient map of "Israel"; and this is what I found---
View attachment 200742

No "Israel" could be found-----

Well.....and I really have to call you this.....IDIOT.......
there were the children of Israel (Jacob)while they were in Egypt but there was no Nation of Israel until 3000 years ago with King David ON THE LAND OF ISRAEL.

You look for want you want to look for and you will find it.

Look.....no Israel in an ancient map of Africa and Asia Minor before the Nation of Israel came to be.

SURPRISE.....SURPRISE.....SURPRISE !!!!!!!

I hate to tell you that, but there was no Greece until the Greeks created a Nation and there was no Rome until the Etruscans created their Nation, so on and so forth.

But you do not care about ALL of the Nations which had not become a Nation anywhere else in the world.

You care only to discredit, delegitimize, STEAL .....the Jewish homeland from the Jewish People.


Nice Christian, with nice hatred for Jews .....learned from pathetic nearly 2000 years of lies, slanders and libels told about the Jewish people, by pathetic people who follow a god who never was.

Smile fool

 

[Sixties Fan]

The truth about the Jewish indigenous reality to the Land of Israel brings you pain, it is your pain to deal with.

The pain you feel is the pain of knowing that "Israel" is not your true homeland even after showing you where your great leaders were burred and after producing ancient maps showing no place called Israel and still you live in denial.

I truly feel sorry for you and will no longer challenge you on this subject.
May you and yours live long and prosper

bye.

Where our great leaders are, or are not buried, has absolutely Nothing to do with where THEIR ancient homeland was, and continues to be.

You are not returning????

I doubt it. Let us just see how many months it takes for you to come back with the same crap, with another name attached to yourself, because we have seen you around here before ,have we not?



Do not forget.

Israel is doing great.

It is the rest of the Middle East and Europe as well, now, who are suffering from their Jew hatred and endless need to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

Am Israel Chai
(The People of Israel Live )


You like it or not.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Israel is doing great.

Ok, you are right, I could not stay away-----------

King James Bible

Israel was a person, not a place

Genesis 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
Jewish population by country - Wikipedia

Now I am gone and to prove it I am logging off

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel is doing great.

Ok, you are right, I could not stay away-----------

King James Bible

Israel was a person, not a place

Genesis 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
Jewish population by country - Wikipedia

Now I am gone and to prove it I am logging off

And.....AGAIN......you somehow managed to wipe out 3000 years of a Nation called Israel........Just because you feel like it.

You only have the all the Nations which dealt with Israel as witnesses that the Nation existed from 3000 years ago, on.....

And let us count the Phillistines, the Greeks, the Romans, the Assyrians, the Byzantine, on and on who can testify that such a Nation did exist in ancient Canaan.


By all means show only the map for ancient Egypt, but not the map for Ancient Canaan.

You are on an endless Christian BDS trip of delegitimizing Israel and the Jews.

No such luck

Bye, bye....

 

[rylah]

I want t call it the Land of Israel, for me it's my grand grand father's land, and has been so for millenias.

Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Promised Land
“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the promised land of Israel spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.

Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan running along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King Omri of Israel. Their capital was Dibon, located next to the modern Jordanian town of Dhiban.”
Moab - New World Encyclopedia

From there they moved to Egypt

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.

Then the question that needs to be asked---

Why does the Israeli’s call the land they live on today their ancestral land?

I fail to see how these verses confirm Your claim.
The answer is simple - this is the land promised to our forefathers, this is our heritage.
That it's called the Land of Israel has become a wide world heritage by the time Israel was reestablished in 1948.

It's one of the most recorded connection between a people and land in world history.

 

[rylah]

Patently insane.

I agree but factually true

Yes the lack of reading comprehension is alarming at times.

 

[rylah]

Sixties Fan, rylah

Don't you just love it when Christians inform Jews what Jewish holy texts REALLY say?!

Nahmanides disputations is merely an exemplary case of the underlaying discourse between Jewish thought and Europe.

 

[rylah]

Sixties Fan, rylah

Don't you just love it when Christians inform Jews what Jewish holy texts REALLY say?!

Nahmanides disputations is merely an exemplary case of the underlaying discourse between Jewish thought and Europe.

Also, naturally I'd put re-establishment of Israel as one such exemplary culminations,
It challenges European emancipation and what Arabs would call "middle eastern hospitality" on one hand and a bunch of theological challenges for both on the other hand.

At the end of the day, when we examine it in this perspective nothing about Israel can really be "secular" this way.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The creation of Jordan

To further understand Britain's anti-Israel bias it is important to consider how the British invented the Arab Kingdom of Jordan. British General James Lunt, a former commander in the Jordanian Arab Legion, related in his biography of Glubb Pasha “Britain had infuriated the Zionists by separating Transjordan from Palestine, which had in turn, delighted the Arabs of course.” (Glubb Pasha, James Lunt, Harvill Press 1984, page 62).

In 1916, before WWI ended, the British and the French signed the secret Sikes-Pikot agreement defining their proposed spheres of influence in the Middle East if they won the war. According to the agreement, France was allocated to Northern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, while the British would rule over Palestine and southern Iraq.

In 1920, following the provision of the Mandate to France and Britain at San Remo, the UK took control of British Mandate Palestine (Mandatory Palestine) in what is today Israel and Jordan, land captured from the Ottoman Empire.

A secret deal

The McMahon-Hussein correspondence (1915) reveals details of a secret deal between Sir Henry McMahon, High Commissioner of the UK in Egypt, and the Sharif of Mecca, Hussain Bin Ali, by which the British would give control of lands captured from the Ottoman Empire to the Arabs (Palestine was included within the boundaries that were proposed by Hussein) if the Arabs assisted the British in fighting the Turks during WWI.

In 1921 the UK created the Emirate of Transjordan (Jordan) in the land of Mandatory Palestine east of the Jordan River and appointed Abdullah, son of the Shariff of Mecca, as King of Jordan. Britain also appointed Abdullah’s brother Faisal as King of Iraq. Jordan was officially under British Mandate Palestine and obtained independence in 1946.

In 1948 British General Glubb Pasha led the Jordanian Arab Legion to expel all the Jews from Hebron, East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Not only they did ethnic cleansing but they destroyed dozens of ancient synagogues and thousands of Ancient Jewish Tombstones in the Sacred Ancient Jewish Cemetery of Mount of Olives to try to erase all evidence of Jewish History.

Britain was the only country to recognize Jordanian (not Palestinian) sovereignty over Jerusalem's Old City while it was under Jordanian occupation between 1948-67, this is not surprising, considering Jordan was a puppet Kingdom of the UK and Jordan's King Abdullah was honorary Air Commodore in Britain's Royal Air Force (1940).

(full article online)

A history lesson for Prince William: Judea, Samaria, Oslo et al

 

[P F Tinmore]

The never ending Nakba.

 

[rylah]

The never ending Nakba.

It's quiet telling when a whole panel is based on a say so, hour and a half of anecdotes and big claims backed by hot air. Wonder why they allowed no opposing voices in the panel?

Israel and Spain are the only lands Arabs have lost, in favor of the indigenous nations.
Nakba seems to be a mere term referring to a breakaway from the greater Arab Empire.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ rylah, P F Tinmore, er al,

There is no such thing as a "Never Ending Nakba." That is just crafty writing that has taken on a life of its own → and → expresses a connection between the "generational continuity" and bond to their cultural. Both sides of the conflict experience this phenomenon. It just so happens that - of the trio under discussion, the two Jewish components (Max Blumenthal, Miko Peled, Steve Niva) in this three-part series, both Max Blumenthal (the son of Sidney Blumenthal and former Aid to POTUS) and Miko Peled [son of a GEN Matt Peled (IDF) of the Six Day War era] wanted to develop an entirely independence and totally separate identities from their parents. And both developed polar opposite political-military concepts of their parents on perceptions about the Arab-Israeli conflict.

All three supplement a significant portion of their income roving around and making pro-Palestinian presentations as relative to the poor way the Israelis treat the Arab Palestinians in the territories.

A one-sided show for a one-sided audience is good business.

The never ending Nakba.

It's quiet telling when a whole panel is based on a say so, hour and a half of anecdotes and big claims backed by hot air. Wonder why they allowed no opposing voices in the panel?

(COMMENT)

I agree with your implication. It is clear that the sponsors (including Phyllis Bennis, who in her own right is a well known Anti-Israeli Activist) of the discussion panel Presentation did not want to pollute the single anti-Israeli perspective with any pro-Israeli counter-points. And, it is also clear, that the presentation was targeted specifically at a segment of Americans that might, in the future, bring an end to American military aid and support to the preservation of the Jewish National Home; as well as de-legitimise the State of Israel, in an effort to weaken it for the benefit of the Arab League. They will present awkward code words like "Judaization" (ethnic cleansing) at the forefront to set the tone for the presentation. They will also bombard the audience with hearsay testimony → telling you about the free (or discounted) tourist group travel packages to the Middle East (Israel); and how they are propaganda tools for the Israelis. I get three or four offers a month on how I became eligible for a Caribbean Cruise.

BTW: Almost all foreign tours take the route and visit places of interest. They do not typically take the tourist to the seedy parts of town. Most tours present the best foot forward. If that is propaganda, so be it. I like to think it is good business practice.

This is a very typical way pro-Palestinian presentations are formatted (no opposition). And it is a good strategy. It sells books and makes the authors (all) just a little bit more well-known then they were before.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ rylah, P F Tinmore, er al,

There is no such thing as a "Never Ending Nakba." That is just crafty writing that has taken on a life of its own → and → expresses a connection between the "generational continuity" and bond to their cultural. Both sides of the conflict experience this phenomenon. It just so happens that - of the trio under discussion, the two Jewish components (Max Blumenthal, Miko Peled, Steve Niva) in this three-part series, both Max Blumenthal (the son of Sidney Blumenthal and former Aid to POTUS) and Miko Peled [son of a GEN Matt Peled (IDF) of the Six Day War era] wanted to develop an entirely independence and totally separate identities from their parents. And both developed polar opposite political-military concepts of their parents on perceptions about the Arab-Israeli conflict.

All three supplement a significant portion of their income roving around and making pro-Palestinian presentations as relative to the poor way the Israelis treat the Arab Palestinians in the territories.

A one-sided show for a one-sided audience is good business.

The never ending Nakba.

It's quiet telling when a whole panel is based on a say so, hour and a half of anecdotes and big claims backed by hot air. Wonder why they allowed no opposing voices in the panel?

(COMMENT)

I agree with your implication. It is clear that the sponsors (including Phyllis Bennis, who in her own right is a well known Anti-Israeli Activist) of the discussion panel Presentation did not want to pollute the single anti-Israeli perspective with any pro-Israeli counter-points. And, it is also clear, that the presentation was targeted specifically at a segment of Americans that might, in the future, bring an end to American military aid and support to the preservation of the Jewish National Home; as well as de-legitimise the State of Israel, in an effort to weaken it for the benefit of the Arab League. They will present awkward code words like "Judaization" (ethnic cleansing) at the forefront to set the tone for the presentation. They will also bombard the audience with hearsay testimony → telling you about the free (or discounted) tourist group travel packages to the Middle East (Israel); and how they are propaganda tools for the Israelis. I get three or four offers a month on how I became eligible for a Caribbean Cruise.

BTW: Almost all foreign tours take the route and visit places of interest. They do not typically take the tourist to the seedy parts of town. Most tours present the best foot forward. If that is propaganda, so be it. I like to think it is good business practice.

This is a very typical way pro-Palestinian presentations are formatted (no opposition). And it is a good strategy. It sells books and makes the authors (all) just a little bit more well-known then they were before.

Most Respectfully,
R

I think the Arab side has put all its' money on quantity rather than on quality.
Sometimes it looks like all it takes to answer those shallow allegations is a well read teenager. That's why the tactic is to swiftly overwhelm the conversation with a wide number of allegations hoping to make an impression, while never actually going into proving any one of them.

This is less an intellectual discourse than a desperate self-promotion tactic wholly dependent prolonging the conflict for personal needs. Reminds me of all the Arab mayors and muftis who sold lands to Jews while in the media promising death to everyone else for doing so, just to raise the prices.