The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[pioneerpete]

Logically, facts override emotion. Who is willing to put an innocent man away for the rest of his life for acting in self defense, all on emotion? It's bad enough we have a trial revolving around race, we don't need emotion and politics dictating the outcome.

Let me be clear, I do understand gadawg point. You absolutely can not expect to take emotion out of the jury box. If this was a given, then nobody's mama would have testified today. My point is that I don't think even emotion can trump the weakness and lack of linear narrative from the state. However, there is no telling if six women are going to think the way of a good ole' boy from the south.

I agree, but emotion can affect judgement, even despite all the supporting evidence. I think it is tragic to convict a man because hatred or political pressure tells someone to.

Agree 100%

 

[asaratis]

If There's Rioting From Zimmerman Acquittal, Blood On Media Hands - Investors.com

Bias: Evidence revealed so far in the Trayvon Martin murder trial shatters the media narrative that shooter George Zimmerman acted as a rabid racist hunting down an angelic black boy.

For a full week last year after the tragedy, NBC "Nightly News" and "Today" ran audio tape of Zimmerman allegedly telling a 911 dispatcher, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black."

To an audience that didn't know better, that was damning evidence — a seemingly open-and-shut case of racial profiling. Only, it was a frame-up.

NBC producers doctored the recording to portray Zimmerman as a bigot. In the unedited 911 call, the dispatcher asks Zimmerman to describe Martin's skin color. Yet NBC made it seem as if Zimmerman targeted him because he was black and edited the exchange to look like he believed blacks in general are up to no good.

Other examples of biased media coverage included:

• ABC News originally claiming Zimmerman had no visible signs of injury based on a fuzzy video that later, when enhanced, clearly showed wounds to his head.

• CNN isolating part of a 911 call and speculating Zimmerman could be heard in the background calling Martin a racial slur, when in fact he did no such thing.

• Networks broadcasting photos of Martin as a pre-teen, ignoring the social-media photos of the 17-year-old smoking, shooting the middle finger and glowering at the camera...



Detectives also corroborated what a key eyewitness, John Good, told the court — that he saw from his balcony the 6-3 Martin straddling the 5-8 Zimmerman on the sidewalk below and raining down punches on his face in a mixed martial arts-style "ground and pound."

The medical examiner, moreover, testified he found traces of marijuana in Martin's system, as well as abrasions on his knuckles.

Sanford Det. Doris Singleton testified that Zimmerman showed no "ill will" toward Martin, echoing an earlier FBI probe finding no racial motive behind the shooting. Meanwhile, Martin called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker" in a text massage to a friend — (a text the Washington Post edited down to "a 'creepy' man").

The media's biased reporting, which continues, has whipped up racial arsonists from Washington to Hollywood who have cited it as proof Zimmerman "executed" Martin out of racism. It's also led indirectly to beatings of whites by blacks in Virginia, Illinois and Alabama, who said they were getting even "for Trayvon."

If there's rioting from an acquittal of Zimmerman — as the police chiefs of Sanford and Chicago and elsewhere fear — the blood will be on the media's hands.

 

[25Caliber]

Wait a second...your claim is that someone who is "afraid" of the man following him...runs away to the safety of the condo he's staying in...but then RETURNS to the area where the man is? That makes sense to you? Really?

i didnt say he went back to the condo he was staying in...where did I say that? I dont believe that for a second and have argued ad nausea against...the evidence doesnt support it. Come on dude, I think ive made it pretty clear what my position is and why it makes sense to me. And none of it includes him going all the way back to his condo.

The evidence doesn't support that Trayvon Martin went all the way back to his condo? Then explain why Rachel Jenteal testified that he was back at the condo? Explain where it is he ran to during the time that Jenteal heard wind rushing by Trayvon's phone and was disconnected and when she called back. That's over a minute, 25. What kind of distance would a 17 year old in good shape cover in that amount of time? How could he NOT have made it the 120 yards to the condo?

She never said it...go back and listen to her tape...she didnt know where he was...she said that she believed him to be near his home, but that in her mind he was a couple of houses down...not far from what I believe (that he was near home but in between building waiting to see if he would be followed on foot.

AND with rachels testimony...you cant have it both ways because just after she says "near" the condo...she completely conflicts with GZs version of events and words used...Me, I take what she says with a grain of salt...she said near to the house because compared to how far he had walked from the store being followed in the dark and rain he was near his house...about a building away.

Add to that that the officer investigating the case (officer serino) said that given the timestamps of the two phone calls (GZs to 911 and trays with DD), that it was impossible for him to have gone all the way home and come back...he said this in the FBI report that I have already posted.

The defense wants you to believe that Trayvon went all the way home thought about it and then went out again to get GZ...that fits the narrative. Its the only part of the DD testimony they liked.

There is so much wrong with DDs testimony that it would take all day to sort thru the bs...but disturbing to me was how she said near the home or two houses down, but then to defend why she didnt take the fight seriously that killed her friend...she stated that hearing voices in the background led her to believe he had help.

WELL, if it was her belief that the closest he got was a couple of houses away, then what noises are you hearing...they certainly arent coming from with in the house that she admits he is not at, so was there a bunch of people standing around in the dark and rain making noises that led her to believe that...doesnt makes sense...she was trying to save face of not calling back or even inquiring about a fight she admits he was getting involved in that eventually killed him...she passed the buck to background voices and his father.

DD found out about Trayvons death from mutual friends that attended Trays school.

 

[Oldstyle]

The whole notion that Zimmerman "stalked" Trayvon Martin with the intent of using his gun flies right out the window when you actually look at the situation.

Zimmerman doesn't draw his weapon until he fears that the man who is atop him and has been beating him without letup has noticed his gun and is trying to get it. Only then...does Zimmerman elect to use the weapon.

But more importantly...if Trayvon Martin REALLY is frightened by the "creepy assed Cracker" that followed him...what possible reason would he have to leave the safety of the condo he was staying at...a condo that he could have very easily called the police himself to report the "stalking"...and walk back up the hundred yards plus to get to where Zimmerman is returning to his SUV? And if he DID do that simply to see if the man was still there (your claim that I'm sorry to say that I find to be almost laughable, 25) why wouldn't he let the man continue on his way? Why would he step out of the darkness and ask "You got a problem?"...an opening salvo that anyone who's ever been in a fight recognizes as threatening.

I agree...I dont think he was out to kill anyone...hes not that type of person. He was a concerned citizen who made some mistakes.

He and trayvon both have their own responsibility for what happened that night. Trayvon paid the ultimate price and GZ needs to pay with some time in jail, IMO. Will that happen to GZ? As it looks now...i dont think so.

Other than not telling Trayvon Martin that he was part of Neighborhood Watch...what "mistake" did Zimmerman make that he should do jail time for?

 

[25Caliber]

The whole notion that Zimmerman "stalked" Trayvon Martin with the intent of using his gun flies right out the window when you actually look at the situation.

Zimmerman doesn't draw his weapon until he fears that the man who is atop him and has been beating him without letup has noticed his gun and is trying to get it. Only then...does Zimmerman elect to use the weapon.

But more importantly...if Trayvon Martin REALLY is frightened by the "creepy assed Cracker" that followed him...what possible reason would he have to leave the safety of the condo he was staying at...a condo that he could have very easily called the police himself to report the "stalking"...and walk back up the hundred yards plus to get to where Zimmerman is returning to his SUV? And if he DID do that simply to see if the man was still there (your claim that I'm sorry to say that I find to be almost laughable, 25) why wouldn't he let the man continue on his way? Why would he step out of the darkness and ask "You got a problem?"...an opening salvo that anyone who's ever been in a fight recognizes as threatening.

I agree...I dont think he was out to kill anyone...hes not that type of person. He was a concerned citizen who made some mistakes.

He and trayvon both have their own responsibility for what happened that night. Trayvon paid the ultimate price and GZ needs to pay with some time in jail, IMO. Will that happen to GZ? As it looks now...i dont think so.

Other than not telling Trayvon Martin that he was part of Neighborhood Watch...what "mistake" did Zimmerman make that he should do jail time for?

Fair question. See link below...its not real long, but its the Chris Serino FBI report...he sees Zimmerman about the way I do. I agree with this report 100 percent and just saw it a couple of days ago...I was surprised to see that Serino and i are in almost in lockstep with our opinions.

http://lawofselfdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FBI-interview-of-Chris-Serino.pdf

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So you don't think that Martin, who saw Zimmerman, a man who followed in a car. A man who got out of the car and followed him brazenly into a dark courtyard, didn't have reason to believe that Zimmerman was armed? And that Zimmerman may have been pulling a gun?

Because he would have been right on the armed part. And he may have clocked Zimmerman before he got his gun.

If Martin thought Zimmerman had a gun why would he come back and confront him? Why did he wait to go for the gun until he saw it in Zimmerman's waist band? Why would he think Zimmerman had a gun to begin with?

Again, you are incapable of logical thought...your bias clouds your judgment. Trayvon didnt know what was being reached for...for the millionth time...he just didnt wait to see what it was...get that?

Then when on the ground, it is conceivable that when the gun was exposed (GZs words) that it is reasonable that tray may have seen what GZ had been reaching for before but was unsuccessful in getting because he got clocked. This would give Trayvon the satisfaction of being glad he didnt wait to see what GZ might have been reaching for....after all its confirmed now that a gun was in the same area (right) he was reaching. Trayvon could logically think that his suspicion has been confirmed...that GZ may be grabbing for a weapon and now I see that weapon. We dont know what GZ was actually reaching for....but in hindsight the evidence shows that a gun WAS there and a phone wasnt.

I didnt post this in hopes that you would finally understand it...I posted it so that whithin the next few posts and regurgitate the same bs, I will have easy access to cut and paste and REMIND you again.

You just keep making shit up.

 

[asaratis]

If all the state has to argue is ill will, spite and Zimmerman has bad breath this case has long been lost.
But I still want to hear Zimmerman say he was defending himself and was hit first before I find him not guilty of murder.

You missed the interviews and the video tour of the scene? Zimmerman has testified already. He shouldn't take the stand and get badgered by the prosecutors.

Then maybe he should...and show them up again as the incompetent buffoons they have proven themselves to be. What stupid lawyer would put that idiot Dr. Bao on the stand without subjecting him to mock cross-examination and instructions to NOT try to repeatedly define "opinion" and "fact" to a brilliant defense lawyer...and certainly NOT to say that he changes his opinion every hour...and to bring his own notes into the courtroom without sharing them with both sides first. THAT was the biggest mistake I have seen them make. It literally negated the impact of Trayvon's mother's effective testimony.

 

[25Caliber]

If Martin thought Zimmerman had a gun why would he come back and confront him? Why did he wait to go for the gun until he saw it in Zimmerman's waist band? Why would he think Zimmerman had a gun to begin with?

Again, you are incapable of logical thought...your bias clouds your judgment. Trayvon didnt know what was being reached for...for the millionth time...he just didnt wait to see what it was...get that?

Then when on the ground, it is conceivable that when the gun was exposed (GZs words) that it is reasonable that tray may have seen what GZ had been reaching for before but was unsuccessful in getting because he got clocked. This would give Trayvon the satisfaction of being glad he didnt wait to see what GZ might have been reaching for....after all its confirmed now that a gun was in the same area (right) he was reaching. Trayvon could logically think that his suspicion has been confirmed...that GZ may be grabbing for a weapon and now I see that weapon. We dont know what GZ was actually reaching for....but in hindsight the evidence shows that a gun WAS there and a phone wasnt.

I didnt post this in hopes that you would finally understand it...I posted it so that whithin the next few posts and regurgitate the same bs, I will have easy access to cut and paste and REMIND you again.

You just keep making shit up.

Nope...I dont make stuff up...I think I have been fair in giving my opinion and doing the best I can to support my positions. I'll grant you that some of it is speculative, but so are GZs words that cant be verified. I believe he is not a pro...he made mistakes and holds some responsibility for the events of that night.

You believe that immediately after being told "we dont need you to do that", that his continuance up the same path of someone running from him in the dark was justified.

I disagree...I believe that when you are following in the dark and you have just stated to the police dispatch that the situation had escalated, that when you are told "we dont need you to do that"...means exactly that...dont proceed up the same path...go back to your truck and wait for the police who are already enroute and know where to meet you. Continuing up that path in the dark and rain gives the impression to the followee that you are now following him on foot and are essentially hunting him in the dark. I dont know what other impression an average person would perceive were they in the same position. To me that was a mistake and he knew better...that suggests negligence to me and i would be telling that to the jury.

Thats just one example, but I approach with the same skepticism in all of my opinions in this case.

Difference of opinion? yes. Made up? Absolutely not.

 

[pioneerpete]

I would guess that it will be quite a while before either of the MEs that have testified in this trial will be called to the stand by anyone trying a murder case.

 

[Oldstyle]

That may not even be right.

Zimmerman was pretty cold after the killing. Previously, he's expressed a desire to "hunt for fugitives". He called Trayvon's killing, "God's plan" and he called him a "suspect".

I just dont believe that you head out for target and groceries and then switch into a hunting murderer. I dont think GZ even had it in him. Plus, I dont think you set out to kill and then call 911 and have the cops on the way before you do it.

I just think you have to be careful when you go following people in the night...even if you have good intentions. The cops were on the way....and then the cat goes after on foot.

Some say Tray came to him...okay well who has been coming to tray in the dark and night previous to that?

That's not all.

He beat up his fiancée and got into a fight with a cop.

Both times he got off.

This seems to be the next logical step.

Once again you choose to demagogue George Zimmerman instead of simply present facts. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that George Zimmerman "beat up" ANYONE! What you refer to as a "fight" with a cop was Zimmerman pushing an undercover officer's arm away.

You need to stoop to character assassination like this, Sallow...because you don't have a case against Zimmerman based on what happened that night. It's all about trying to whip up enough outrage against someone that you can get a conviction. It's emotion rather than looking at the evidence.

 

[pioneerpete]

The doctors in this case are a very good point of what I'm talking about with no true narrative for the state. The first doctor they called to the stand walks everyone through the injuries. The next denies the injuries even exist. I'm sitting in deliberations asking which state witness am I suppose to believe, and if they contradict each other I am given doubt.

 

[25Caliber]

That may not even be right.

Zimmerman was pretty cold after the killing. Previously, he's expressed a desire to "hunt for fugitives". He called Trayvon's killing, "God's plan" and he called him a "suspect".

I just dont believe that you head out for target and groceries and then switch into a hunting murderer. I dont think GZ even had it in him. Plus, I dont think you set out to kill and then call 911 and have the cops on the way before you do it.

I just think you have to be careful when you go following people in the night...even if you have good intentions. The cops were on the way....and then the cat goes after on foot.

Some say Tray came to him...okay well who has been coming to tray in the dark and night previous to that?

That's not all.

He beat up his fiancée and got into a fight with a cop.

Both times he got off.

This seems to be the next logical step.

I dont really let those incidents sway my opinion...just as I dont let Trayvons prior behavior let me sway my opinion of him that night.

The fiancee thing could be anything...it doesnt take much to get a restraining order and there are two sides to every story.

I know a little about the cop thing in the bar...it was not a uniformed police officer...it was a diagreement in a bar and the officer was in civis just like everyone else. I think GZ was defending a friend and he pushed the officer...Im not up on the whole scenario.

To me:

1) GZ was a concerned citizen doing what he thought was best for the neighborhood but made some mistakes that ultimately led to a death of a teen and him on trial for M2. I dont hold him completely irresponsible for events that night

and

2) Trayvon was a minor headed home from the store when he just happened to use a cut through or go between of a townhome that was burglarized 3 weeks earlier. Because of this he was unfortunately viewed as suspicious from the same neighborhood watch guy that reported the other burglary. Bad luck. He just happened to be on that lawn at the exact time the NH watch guy drives by...bad luck!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Again, you are incapable of logical thought...your bias clouds your judgment. Trayvon didnt know what was being reached for...for the millionth time...he just didnt wait to see what it was...get that?

Then when on the ground, it is conceivable that when the gun was exposed (GZs words) that it is reasonable that tray may have seen what GZ had been reaching for before but was unsuccessful in getting because he got clocked. This would give Trayvon the satisfaction of being glad he didnt wait to see what GZ might have been reaching for....after all its confirmed now that a gun was in the same area (right) he was reaching. Trayvon could logically think that his suspicion has been confirmed...that GZ may be grabbing for a weapon and now I see that weapon. We dont know what GZ was actually reaching for....but in hindsight the evidence shows that a gun WAS there and a phone wasnt.

I didnt post this in hopes that you would finally understand it...I posted it so that whithin the next few posts and regurgitate the same bs, I will have easy access to cut and paste and REMIND you again.

You just keep making shit up.

Nope...I dont make stuff up...I think I have been fair in giving my opinion and doing the best I can to support my positions. I'll grant you that some of it is speculative, but so are GZs words that cant be verified. I believe he is not a pro...he made mistakes and holds some responsibility for the events of that night.

You believe that immediately after being told "we dont need you to do that", that his continuance up the same path of someone running from him in the dark was justified.

I disagree...I believe that when you are following in the dark and you have just stated to the police dispatch that the situation had escalated, that when you are told "we dont need you to do that"...means exactly that...dont proceed up the same path...go back to your truck and wait for the police who are already enroute and know where to meet you. Continuing up that path in the dark and rain gives the impression to the followee that you are now following him on foot and are essentially hunting him in the dark. I dont know what other impression an average person would perceive were they in the same position. To me that was a mistake and he knew better...that suggests negligence to me and i would be telling that to the jury.

Thats just one example, but I approach with the same skepticism in all of my opinions in this case.

Difference of opinion? yes. Made up? Absolutely not.

Zimmerman turned and began returning to his vehicle when so advised. There is ZERO evidence to support your wild claim that Martin saw a weapon and so attacked Zimmerman. In fact the evidence presented indicates he made no exclamation, no claim of a gun , nothing to his girlfriend who said she was on the phone with him.

You keep fabricating from whole cloth the whole " Martin saw a gun" claim. Add that you keep fabricating that Zimmerman tried to pull it before the fight.
Not in evidence did not happen. Yet your entire story DEPENDS on that series of events. Again absent any shred of evidence your supposed story was true.

She did STATE he was home. That means he CHOSE to return to where Zimmerman was headed back to his car. He chose to confront Zimmerman and then by the actual evidence chose to attack him. Martin was on top, Zimmerman was calling for help, Zimmerman had a near broken nose and lacerations to his head. Martin had no mark on him as testified by the ME and the Mortuary. His knuckles were bruised though.

That series of events IS actual evidence. Presented and told to the Jury. No claim that Zimmerman went for his gun forcing martin to attack him. Hell the known evidence contradicts that series of events.

 

[Noomi]

The more information that is released on George Zimmerman, the individual that killed defenseless 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, for walking in his own family's neighborhood, the more it becomes clear that he is a paranoid racist, with a serious aversion to black people. Zimmerman equates being black with guilt and crime.

So much so, prior to murdering poor Martin, Zimmerman called 911 on April 22, 2011 to report a suspicious black 7-year-old, seeking police assistance. That says it all. He is deranged. The police department in Sanford, Florida should have arrested Zimmerman long ago, as his conduct was menacing, disturbing the peace and fraudulently usurping police resources, which is a serious crime the taxpayers footed the bill for.

There have been stories in the press of police and FBI in different parts of America, arresting people that called them too much. It is a crime to do such a thing, but Zimmerman mysteriously got away with it - 49 times in one year, complaining about black men and black children with no penalty. Something is very wrong with that. Filing a fraudulent police complaint is a crime. The Sanford police department bears liability in this fact.

Aisha: Trayvon Martin's Killer George Zimmerman Previously Reported Suspicious Black 7-Year-Old To 911

It seems the only common thread in his "suspicion" was the person being black.

I would like a more non biased and credible link, please.
I hope Zimmerman gets thrown in prison, but I can't rely on that source.

 

[Oldstyle]

I agree...I dont think he was out to kill anyone...hes not that type of person. He was a concerned citizen who made some mistakes.

He and trayvon both have their own responsibility for what happened that night. Trayvon paid the ultimate price and GZ needs to pay with some time in jail, IMO. Will that happen to GZ? As it looks now...i dont think so.

Other than not telling Trayvon Martin that he was part of Neighborhood Watch...what "mistake" did Zimmerman make that he should do jail time for?

Fair question. See link below...its not real long, but its the Chris Serino FBI report...he sees Zimmerman about the way I do. I agree with this report 100 percent and just saw it a couple of days ago...I was surprised to see that Serino and i are in almost in lockstep with our opinions.

http://lawofselfdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FBI-interview-of-Chris-Serino.pdf

So you've gone back to the notion that simply getting out of his vehicle to try and keep Trayvon Martin in sight is what "caused" the confrontation?

My question remains the same, 25... If Martin has eluded Zimmerman by running to the condo where he is staying...then why is Zimmerman STILL the "cause" of the confrontation when it's Martin that has walked back the hundred plus yards to come out of the darkness with his "You got a problem?"? Why is Zimmerman at fault here when it is Martin that turns a misunderstanding into a physical confrontation? Why is Zimmerman at fault when it is Martin that punches Zimmerman in the nose? Because Zimmerman tries to get to his cell phone to call the Police when Martin comes closer? Why is it Zimmerman's fault that after punching him in the nose and knocking him down, Trayvon Martin decides to further escalate the violence by straddling a man who is DOWN ON THE GROUND and raining further blows down on him?

 

[Oldstyle]

This is without doubt a tragic situation but the bottom line here is that someone was shot because they attacked another person. Trayvon Martin had choices how to deal with the "creepy assed Cracker" that was following him. He could have simply gone inside the condo and called Police to report the man who was following him. That would have been the end of it. Right there! The Police would have told him that the man was a Neighborhood Watch member concerned about who Martin was and that they would call Zimmerman and let him know that Martin was visiting a resident in the complex.

That's what SHOULD have happened, 25. Instead Trayvon Martin decided to handle it himself. He walked back to confront a stranger in the dark with a "You got a problem?" challenge and a sucker punch to the nose.

 

[25Caliber]

You just keep making shit up.

Nope...I dont make stuff up...I think I have been fair in giving my opinion and doing the best I can to support my positions. I'll grant you that some of it is speculative, but so are GZs words that cant be verified. I believe he is not a pro...he made mistakes and holds some responsibility for the events of that night.

You believe that immediately after being told "we dont need you to do that", that his continuance up the same path of someone running from him in the dark was justified.

I disagree...I believe that when you are following in the dark and you have just stated to the police dispatch that the situation had escalated, that when you are told "we dont need you to do that"...means exactly that...dont proceed up the same path...go back to your truck and wait for the police who are already enroute and know where to meet you. Continuing up that path in the dark and rain gives the impression to the followee that you are now following him on foot and are essentially hunting him in the dark. I dont know what other impression an average person would perceive were they in the same position. To me that was a mistake and he knew better...that suggests negligence to me and i would be telling that to the jury.

Thats just one example, but I approach with the same skepticism in all of my opinions in this case.

Difference of opinion? yes. Made up? Absolutely not.

Zimmerman turned and began returning to his vehicle when so advised. There is ZERO evidence to support your wild claim that Martin saw a weapon and so attacked Zimmerman. In fact the evidence presented indicates he made no exclamation, no claim of a gun , nothing to his girlfriend who said she was on the phone with him.

You keep fabricating from whole cloth the whole " Martin saw a gun" claim. Add that you keep fabricating that Zimmerman tried to pull it before the fight.
Not in evidence did not happen. Yet your entire story DEPENDS on that series of events. Again absent any shred of evidence your supposed story was true.

She did STATE he was home. That means he CHOSE to return to where Zimmerman was headed back to his car. He chose to confront Zimmerman and then by the actual evidence chose to attack him. Martin was on top, Zimmerman was calling for help, Zimmerman had a near broken nose and lacerations to his head. Martin had no mark on him as testified by the ME and the Mortuary. His knuckles were bruised though.

That series of events IS actual evidence. Presented and told to the Jury. No claim that Zimmerman went for his gun forcing martin to attack him. Hell the known evidence contradicts that series of events.

If you want to engage in respectable discussion, I am willing to do so. If all you want to do is engage in personal attacks im not interested. I have a retort to your above post, but I am not going to give you the same attention that I would [MENTION=31215]Oldstyle[/MENTION] who is respectful with his disagreements and at least gives the courtesy of listening.

You are hearing the other side...the other side that does not hate GZ. It could be interesting if you would allow it, but for some reason you have something personal against me.

A quick one to note: He did not stop and go back to his truck...not immediately...what he did do is proceed up the path to now look for an address to give the police a better location, then he headed back down the path towards his truck after he hung up with police (these are his words--not mine...see reenactment video). Trayvon has no way of knowing that he is looking for an address...tray was not privy to the 911 call...to him its just GZ continuing to follow him after he had actually ran away.

This is supported by the 911 call...the reenactment video and the timestamp of the phone call and when he hung up with 911. In this case, it is your assumption that is not supported by the evidence...you are going by what you have heard....look at the tapes yourself...I did. I was getting tired of going by what i heard, so I went through it all myself and kept the links to support my opinion.

 

[25Caliber]

This is without doubt a tragic situation but the bottom line here is that someone was shot because they attacked another person. Trayvon Martin had choices how to deal with the "creepy assed Cracker" that was following him. He could have simply gone inside the condo and called Police to report the man who was following him. That would have been the end of it. Right there! The Police would have told him that the man was a Neighborhood Watch member concerned about who Martin was and that they would call Zimmerman and let him know that Martin was visiting a resident in the complex.

That's what SHOULD have happened, 25. Instead Trayvon Martin decided to handle it himself. He walked back to confront a stranger in the dark with a "You got a problem?" challenge and a sucker punch to the nose.

Fair enough...I dont totally disagree with your opinion. Although, I disagree with the sucker punch...he walked straight at him and punched him square in the nose...not a sucker punch. If he would have waited until GZ turned around and then cracked him in the back of the head...that would be a sucker punch. But he was punched straight up...GZ just didnt know how to defend himself or protect himself against it.

In hindsight, he probably should not put himself in a situation he is not prepared to get out of.

 

[Oldstyle]

Nope...I dont make stuff up...I think I have been fair in giving my opinion and doing the best I can to support my positions. I'll grant you that some of it is speculative, but so are GZs words that cant be verified. I believe he is not a pro...he made mistakes and holds some responsibility for the events of that night.

You believe that immediately after being told "we dont need you to do that", that his continuance up the same path of someone running from him in the dark was justified.

I disagree...I believe that when you are following in the dark and you have just stated to the police dispatch that the situation had escalated, that when you are told "we dont need you to do that"...means exactly that...dont proceed up the same path...go back to your truck and wait for the police who are already enroute and know where to meet you. Continuing up that path in the dark and rain gives the impression to the followee that you are now following him on foot and are essentially hunting him in the dark. I dont know what other impression an average person would perceive were they in the same position. To me that was a mistake and he knew better...that suggests negligence to me and i would be telling that to the jury.

Thats just one example, but I approach with the same skepticism in all of my opinions in this case.

Difference of opinion? yes. Made up? Absolutely not.

Zimmerman turned and began returning to his vehicle when so advised. There is ZERO evidence to support your wild claim that Martin saw a weapon and so attacked Zimmerman. In fact the evidence presented indicates he made no exclamation, no claim of a gun , nothing to his girlfriend who said she was on the phone with him.

You keep fabricating from whole cloth the whole " Martin saw a gun" claim. Add that you keep fabricating that Zimmerman tried to pull it before the fight.
Not in evidence did not happen. Yet your entire story DEPENDS on that series of events. Again absent any shred of evidence your supposed story was true.

She did STATE he was home. That means he CHOSE to return to where Zimmerman was headed back to his car. He chose to confront Zimmerman and then by the actual evidence chose to attack him. Martin was on top, Zimmerman was calling for help, Zimmerman had a near broken nose and lacerations to his head. Martin had no mark on him as testified by the ME and the Mortuary. His knuckles were bruised though.

That series of events IS actual evidence. Presented and told to the Jury. No claim that Zimmerman went for his gun forcing martin to attack him. Hell the known evidence contradicts that series of events.

If you want to engage in respectable discussion, I am willing to do so. If all you want to do is engage in personal attacks im not interested. I have a retort to your above post, but I am not going to give you the same attention that I would [MENTION=31215]Oldstyle[/MENTION] who is respectful with his disagreements and at least gives the courtesy of listening.

You are hearing the other side...the other side that does not hate GZ. It could be interesting if you would allow it, but for some reason you have something personal against me.

A quick one to note: He did not stop and go back to his truck...not immediately...what he did do is proceed up the path to now look for an address to give the police a better location, then he headed back down the path towards his truck after he hung up with police (these are his words--not mine...see reenactment video). Trayvon has no way of knowing that he is looking for an address...tray was not privy to the 911 call...to him its just GZ continuing to follow him after he had actually ran away.

This is supported by the 911 call...the reenactment video and the timestamp of the phone call and when he hung up with 911. In this case, it is your assumption that is not supported by the evidence...you are going by what you have heard....look at the tapes yourself...I did. I was getting tired of going by what i heard, so I went through it all myself and kept the links to support my opinion.

So answer me this, 25...

If Zimmerman has indeed lost sight of Martin and is headed back to his SUV? Why does Martin choose to call out to the man he's supposedly afraid of from the safety of the darkness? Why doesn't Martin simply let Zimmerman continue to walk back to his truck? He doesn't have to do or say anything if he's REALLY afraid. Could it be that Martin now has gotten a better look at the man who was in the SUV and has decided that he's not a big imposing guy but a skinny little guy? Could it be that Martin decided at that point that he's not going to take any shit from someone who looks as wimpy as George Zimmerman did? That Martin decided to step from the shadows with his "You got a problem?" challenge?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Depositions are always printed, you are confusing witness statements and depositions, which are recorded by stenographers and are never written by hand.

No, you are WRONG! Do you have any experience at all with depositions? Its nothing more than a "written"
record of a witness's OUT OF COURT TESTIMONY! DO YOU GET IT? OUT OF COURT MEANS THERE ARE NO STENOGRAPHERS!

Damn, you just insist on being stupid, don't you?

Depositions are sworn statements, usually taken in attorney's offices, and are always recorded so that they can be used in court if the witness changes their testimony. The stenographer is there to take a transcript of the statement. This is what it looks like before the stenographer types it up.

Which explains why they are printed out on a printer.