The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[horselightning]

Getting condescending are we? Just because I'm a newb here doesn't mean I'm going to roll-over and die on important questions.

Hi i'm a newbie here too. I'm trying to decide if I should add an opinion in or not. All this swearing is terrible. Why can't we talk with out it? I feel like I got to get a tennis raquet so I can swat the four letter words way from me.

Welcome! I hope you enjoy.

I used to be bigger on it, but I try to swear as little as possible and think that's the correct attitude to have. Swearing just covers up the issue and makes it harder to think. That's just what we need with such a large event as Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman. Jump right in with anything, I'd say, how can you lose? Valuable comments often come from those that haven't joined in much.

I actually have been reading on here during the trial and just recently decided to join so I can post. Nice to know some of you are nice.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You obvously don't do any research, just mindelssly regurgitate bullshit posted on your FB account.

This woman was having an argument with her husband, left the house, returned and fired a gun through a wall at adult height with her two sons in the room with her husband.

I suppose she should should have left the house, returned, waited outside, then stalked him for a bit and then shot him dead, right? Or are you only allowed to do that to people you don't actually legitimately have a beef with?

The bullet ricocheted and, by the grace of God, did not hit her children.

By the grace of God? Why is it only the bullets from black people's guns need the Grace of God to keep from hitting an innocent bystander - while non-blacks can fire as many rounds as off as they like in an inhabited neighorhood and the statistical improbability of anyone of them hurting someone innocent is all that is needed to prevent tragedy?

Really?

people get less time for actually shooting someone.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Gotten off on a technicality is not reasonable doubt. A technicality would be finding the guy driving the car with the dead body in the trunk and the judge throwing out the evidence because the cop didn't read him his rights. Reasonable doubt is the normal standard for obtaining a conviction in any court in the US.

I said OR be satisfied. What you said would make sense if I had said and reasonable doubt. I obviously meant or be satisfied if reasonable doubt had been the outcome and not just a technicality.

You also said "How would the families of the victim of a first-degree murderer who has been tried and gotten off by a technicality feel?" That was what I addressed, not the or, which is completely irrelevant. Did you want me to point out that part too?

That's just the point. You "addressed" an earnest question. Still no one has given the slightest answer to it.

 

[Lakhota]

O.J. Simpson’s prosecutor says he never would have brought the Trayvon case to court. Still, he argues, just putting George Zimmerman on trial was a victory.

“The struggle continues, our work isn’t over,” were the words of Melissa Harris-Perry an hour after the not-guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial. I agree. Work within the African-American community, work within the criminal-justice system and work on a national level to further the debate over racial profiling, civil rights and “stand-your-ground” laws must continue. The power of racial profiling and the power of the gun lobby is a lethal combination in America.

As a former prosecutor, I never would have brought the Zimmerman case to court. There was a high burden of proof giving way to reasonable doubt. That said, as an African-American, I know it was a victory just putting Zimmerman on trial.

No doubt, there will be a civil suit, and Zimmerman will have to testify. The outcome may echo OJ Simpson’s civil trial, in which he was forced to testify and was found guilty. (I was on the prosecution team in the Simpson criminal case.) Today, the NAACP wrote a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder requesting that the government prosecute Zimmerman under the Civil Rights Act. So truth and justice might be found for Trayvon Martin—in several other courts of law.

Yet I still believe in the criminal-justice system, as I did after the Simpson verdict. The OJ case polarized America, dividing us among hard racial lines. African-Americans felt justified supporting OJ as a “payback” for all the profound injustices we have suffered at the hands of the criminal justice system. But OJ Simpson was the wrong poster child for that righteous campaign. He was no hero, framed by the police. He was a cold-blooded killer, guilty of a gruesome double murder.

The election of Barack Obama pulled us up from the bleak hole created by the Simpson trial and unified many black and white people to believe and hope again—together. I do not see the same divide with the Zimmerman verdict. But the details of the case illustrate a real divide in racial experience. Would Zimmerman have followed a white teenager? Would he have thought that boy suspicious or a threat?

Our national collective expectation of equal justice is based on our feeling of morality—not legality. We want the morality of a situation to match the criminality. That is often not the result in our court system. Trayvon Martin had the right to be afraid, the right to fight a stranger who was armed and prepared to use deadly force against him. Trayvon Martin had a right to stand his ground. That is our moral position. Racial disparity in killings that are found justifiable demonstrates that black life is not as valued as white life in this country. That is our reality.

The televised Simpson trial became a trial about race, celebrity and wealth when it should have been about domestic violence and murder. The televised Zimmerman trial became a trial about demonizing Trayvon Martin, creating a black boogey man who could legitimize racial profiling and vigilante murder.

More: Christopher Darden Believes There May Be Justice Yet for Trayvon - The Daily Beast

I hope Christopher Darden is right. I look forward to seeing Zimmerman on the witness stand.

 

[Lakhota]

Why Do Black and White Americans See the Zimmerman Verdict So Differently? - The Daily Beast

The Zimmerman Jury Told Young Black Men What We Already Knew

Open season on black boys after a verdict like this

How The Zimmerman Mindset Rigged The Justice System Against Black Men

Trayvon Martin Verdict: Don't Tell Black People Not to "Riot"

Melissa Harris-Perry On George Zimmerman Verdict: 'I Live In A Country That Makes Me Wish My Sons Away' (VIDEO)

 

[pioneerpete]

It appears to be a National Pastime ITT. You must really love me to keep track so carefully. Dude!!!!!

Just trying to help you document for the next doctor visit. Your losing it Dude!!!!!!

You mean a neurologist for all the headaches you've given me over concerns about Trayvon's killing? Not bad advice.

Thought you didn't care? Thought I had no effect?

 

[pioneerpete]

If he invokes SYG hearing in a civil case with a not guilty verdict from criminal proceedings in hand he will be granted immunity from a civil case. Sorry. He isn't going to be treated like OJ.

 

[pioneerpete]

I suppose she should should have left the house, returned, waited outside, then stalked him for a bit and then shot him dead, right? Or are you only allowed to do that to people you don't actually legitimately have a beef with?


By the grace of God? Why is it only the bullets from black people's guns need the Grace of God to keep from hitting an innocent bystander - while non-blacks can fire as many rounds as off as they like in an inhabited neighorhood and the statistical improbability of anyone of them hurting someone innocent is all that is needed to prevent tragedy?

Really?

people get less time for actually shooting someone.

How do you feel about Ray Lewis?

 

[horselightning]

Please, give your opinion and try to ignore the foul language. The animals are restless.

Alright! I wonder if the out come would have been the same if George had got on the stand? And if George's and Trayvon's diffrent trubles were let into the trial?

On the stand, maybe. Past transgressions would at worst leveled out, but really had no impact on the actual incident.

Thats true. I'm surprised they let the defence show that animation at all. I had some issues with it myself.

 

[pioneerpete]

Alright! I wonder if the out come would have been the same if George had got on the stand? And if George's and Trayvon's diffrent trubles were let into the trial?

On the stand, maybe. Past transgressions would at worst leveled out, but really had no impact on the actual incident.

Thats true. I'm suprised they let the defence show that animation at all. I had some issues with it myself.

The state could have shown one too. The jury was not allowed to take it into deliberations. It was only used for a few seconds. Don't think it was a huge deal. However, I will say it was pretty cheesy.

 

[Missourian]

No civil charges will be brought.

First, self defense provides immunity from civil liability in Florida.

Law of Self Defense ? FL 776.032?Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.?
​

Second, O'Mara covered this in the after verdict press conference.

Zimmerman attorney: We will get civil suit immunity​

Third, no lawyer will bring suit because under Florida law if the plaintiffs lose, the defendants legal expenses must be split between the plaintiffs AND the plaintiffs lawyer.

................................Does the loser pay the attorney fees? - Naples News

 

[pioneerpete]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...he-deliberately-withheld/pGTglGG2#thank-you=p

 

[horselightning]

On the stand, maybe. Past transgressions would at worst leveled out, but really had no impact on the actual incident.

Thats true. I'm suprised they let the defence show that animation at all. I had some issues with it myself.

The state could have shown one too. The jury was not allowed to take it into deliberations. It was only used for a few seconds. Don't think it was a huge deal. However, I will say it was pretty cheesy.

It made it look like Trayvon smacked him instead of punched him. it was way weird. Was Trayvon's phone found near wear he was standing when he stopped to ask George why he was following him for?

 

[Lakhota]

We shall see...

 

[JQPublic1]

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be

That means GZ can shoot TM, not that TM can shoot GZ.

No, TM was in a place where he had a right to be. He could have certainly put the SYG law to the test of applicability by shooting his perceived stalker!

The fla. stalking statute provides the necessary elements to support TM's actions

OMG! You're hilarious! You should read 784.048 (1) (a)
(a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.

Well, thanks for making my point. GZ engaged in a course of conduct directed at Martin causing emotional distress ( evidenced by Martin initially running from him) and serving no legitimate purpose.


1. Spotting and trailing Martin in his vehicle.

2. slowly passing Martin and parking ahead of him partially blocking the sidewalk.

3. Getting out of his vehicle to follow Martin further.

Still allowed to do these things in America. Even if it makes you sad.

No, the florida statute is clear on what stalking is...read it again!

4. Chasing Martin. refusing to adhere to the dispatcher's instructions to desist!

He was never "instructed to desist".

Well, words to the effect of " Are you still following him followed by Z's "yes" and then a " We don't need you to do that" is tantamount to a desist. If not the SPD might incur some kind of culpability for not telling GZ to stop following Martin. The Federal Civil suit could make that happen.

5. engaging and shooting Martin.

After being punched, repeatedly, in the face/head.

He should have been blocking those punches instead of reaching for his gun? Where were his arm blocks and hand parries?

So, no stalking and no basis for SYG.

I disagree, I have shown all the necessary elements to support the charge of stalking, including the "repeatedly" stipulation. There is a solid basis for stalking even though Zimmerman was on the phone
with the SPD. That fact seems to make GZ the good guy here but to Martin he was an unknown creep who seemed to be threatening him.

Sorry, if Trayvon shot GZ for following him, he'd have no good defense.

All he would have to do is lie like GZ did. After all with no witnesses Martin's story would be the only one entered into evidence. But I have the feeling that TM would have told the truth. That he felt intimidated by and that he was provoked into killing GZ though his bizarre behavior!
__

 

[pioneerpete]

Young black men are far more likely to be maliciously prosecuted like GZ in the legal justice system than they are being shot by a white Hispanic neighborhood watchman.

 

[Lakhota]

Defense lawyer Mark O'Mara expressed confidence that his client would be able to fend off a civil action.

"If someone believes that it's appropriate to sue George Zimmerman, then we will seek and we will get immunity in a civil hearing," O'Mara said in a post-verdict press conference.

"We'll see just how many civil lawsuits will spawn from this fiasco."

To seek immunity, Zimmerman would have to ask for a a hearing under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. He chose not to pursue one before the criminal trial, but O'Mara had suggested he might go that route in the event of an acquittal.

Coffey said that if Zimmerman is granted a hearing, he would have to testify. If he didn't convince the judge to grant him immunity, a civil suit could proceed to trial, where he would likely have to testify again.

The burden of proof is different in criminal and civil cases, and there are well-known examples of defendants being acquitted of criminal charges but held liable for someone's death and ordered to pay damages in a civil proceeding — including O.J. Simpson and actor Robert Blake.

Also, prosecutors could not compel Zimmerman to take the stand in the second-degree murder case, relying instead on other witnesses to highlight issues in statements he made to police.

In a civil case, it is "virtually inevitable" that Zimmerman would take the stand, Coffey noted.

"And the best way to prove a witness is inconsistent and untruthful is you put them on the stand," he said.

What's next for George Zimmerman? - U.S. News

 

[Amelia]

From what I understand, she wasn't in her home when she fired the shot. She was in her former home, in spite of a restraining order.

Then when she was out on bond for the shooting, she violated a court order and went to see her ex and gave him a black eye.

 

[Noomi]

And what part of "self defense" did you not hear in the three weeks of the Zimmerman trial? This case wasn't about Stand Your Ground.

Marissa was standing her ground, and she was jailed for it. Fact is, the Stand Your Ground laws favor whites over blacks - statistics prove that.

 

[Noomi]

If he faces a civil suit, which is unlikely, then I hope he loses everything he has.