"The Obamacare implosion is worse than you think"

[Amelia]

APNewsBreak: Adding a new baby to plan not easy



If a family is just over 133% of federal poverty level, could having a baby make them fall below and make them have to repay the subsidies they received?

Maybe I have the threshold wrong, but you know what I'm getting at. Could having a baby make someone owe the government a subsidy refund?

 

[Jroc]

The Health Exchange Marriage Penalty


Just as there are penalties in the tax code for couples who get married, financial penalties in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) also discourage couples from "tying the knot." The ACA establishes state health insurance exchanges where qualifying individuals can purchase subsidized, individual health insurance, starting in October 2013.

However, the exchange subsidies are more generous to unmarried couples than to couples who marry.

Who Qualifies for Health Insurance Exchange Subsidies? All legal U.S. residents will be allowed to purchase health coverage in the exchange. However, subsidies will only be available to individuals and families with incomes from 100 percent to 400 percent of the federal poverty level - from about $23,550 to more than $94,200 for a family of four. Families with incomes below 133 percent must enroll in Medicaid if it is available, and if they qualify to participate in their state. In addition, individuals who have access to affordable employer coverage will not receive subsidies.

The exchange subsidies are rather generous to low-income individuals. Qualifying individuals and families earning 100 percent of the federal poverty level will pay no more than 2 percent of their income. The federal government will cover the rest of their premiums. As income rises, the subsidies phase out, but a family earning 400 percent of the poverty level will pay no more than 9.5 percent of its income in premiums.

The Federal Poverty Level (FPL) does not rise proportionally with the number of individuals in the family. For example, the federal poverty level is $11,490 for a single individual, but only $15,510 for a family of two adults (that is, $4,020 more for a married couple). Thus, because the federal poverty level is not a multiple of family size, two unmarried individuals qualify for larger combined exchange subsidies than they would if they were married.

Penalty for Getting Married. The blue bars in the figure represent the subsidy available to married couples in each income group, while the combined red and blue bars represent the combined subsidy available to unmarried couples (whether they live together or independently). The red bars show the amount of health insurance subsidy penalties couples will suffer by getting married. The penalties are especially high for moderate-income couples.

Consider the case of two unmarried college students each earning 200 percent of the FPL (about $23,000 annually), who move in together. If that same couple married, their combined household income of nearly $46,000 would rise as a percent of the poverty level from 200 percent (individually) to 296 percent for a married family of two. As a result, their premiums in the health insurance exchange would be capped at a higher percentage of their income, providing a smaller total subsidy. Instead of capping their individual premiums at 6.3 percent of income as two individuals earning twice the FPL, their premiums would be capped at 9.4 percent of income for a family of two earning 296 percent of poverty.

The Health Exchange Marriage Penalty | NCPA

 

[MeBelle]

Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Chief Operating Officer Michelle Snyder is on her way out after 41 years working for the federal government, but she won't leave without absorbing some final slings and arrows from critics of the Affordable Care Act.

'She had to go,' the official said. 'She was responsible for the implementation of Obamacare. She controlled all the resources to get it done. She was in charge of information technology. She controlled personnel and budget.'


Butttttt....

'Well, excuse me, congresswoman,' came Sebelius' answer. 'Michelle Snyder is not responsible for the debacle. Hold me accountable for the debacle. I'm responsible.'




Top Republican smacks Obamacare higher-up for 'cult like' website rush as she resigns following healthcare.gov debacle | Mail Online

 

[MeBelle]

THE TOP 10 SIGNS YOU'VE ENROLLED IN OBAMACARE.

10. Your annual breast exam is done at Hooters.

9. Directions to your doctor’s office include “Take a left when you enter
the trailer park.”

8. The nurses station has a tip jar.

7. The only proctologist in the plan is “Gus” from Roto-Rooter.

6. The only item listed under Preventive Care Coverage is “An apple a day..”

5. Your primary care physician is wearing the coveralls with
a Goodwill brand tag.

4. Where it says, “The patient is responsible for 200% of out-of-network
charges,” it’s not a typographical error.

3. The only expense that is 100% covered is “embalming.”

2. Your Prozac comes in different colors with little M’s on them.

AND THE NUMBER ONE SIGN YOU’VE JOINED OBAMACARE:

1. You ask for Viagra and they give you a popsicle stick and duct tape.



Tru Ghost

 

[Care4all]

The Health Exchange Marriage Penalty


Just as there are penalties in the tax code for couples who get married, financial penalties in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) also discourage couples from "tying the knot." The ACA establishes state health insurance exchanges where qualifying individuals can purchase subsidized, individual health insurance, starting in October 2013.

However, the exchange subsidies are more generous to unmarried couples than to couples who marry.

Who Qualifies for Health Insurance Exchange Subsidies? All legal U.S. residents will be allowed to purchase health coverage in the exchange. However, subsidies will only be available to individuals and families with incomes from 100 percent to 400 percent of the federal poverty level - from about $23,550 to more than $94,200 for a family of four. Families with incomes below 133 percent must enroll in Medicaid if it is available, and if they qualify to participate in their state. In addition, individuals who have access to affordable employer coverage will not receive subsidies.

The exchange subsidies are rather generous to low-income individuals. Qualifying individuals and families earning 100 percent of the federal poverty level will pay no more than 2 percent of their income. The federal government will cover the rest of their premiums. As income rises, the subsidies phase out, but a family earning 400 percent of the poverty level will pay no more than 9.5 percent of its income in premiums.

The Federal Poverty Level (FPL) does not rise proportionally with the number of individuals in the family. For example, the federal poverty level is $11,490 for a single individual, but only $15,510 for a family of two adults (that is, $4,020 more for a married couple). Thus, because the federal poverty level is not a multiple of family size, two unmarried individuals qualify for larger combined exchange subsidies than they would if they were married.

Penalty for Getting Married. The blue bars in the figure represent the subsidy available to married couples in each income group, while the combined red and blue bars represent the combined subsidy available to unmarried couples (whether they live together or independently). The red bars show the amount of health insurance subsidy penalties couples will suffer by getting married. The penalties are especially high for moderate-income couples.

Consider the case of two unmarried college students each earning 200 percent of the FPL (about $23,000 annually), who move in together. If that same couple married, their combined household income of nearly $46,000 would rise as a percent of the poverty level from 200 percent (individually) to 296 percent for a married family of two. As a result, their premiums in the health insurance exchange would be capped at a higher percentage of their income, providing a smaller total subsidy. Instead of capping their individual premiums at 6.3 percent of income as two individuals earning twice the FPL, their premiums would be capped at 9.4 percent of income for a family of two earning 296 percent of poverty.

The Health Exchange Marriage Penalty | NCPA

The federal Poverty level does this...which was there LONG before the ACA/obamacare....and that is because the Federal Poverty level presumes that 2 people married and living together have less of an expense to live than 2 single individuals living on their own paying 2 rents, individually buying their own food, paying their own electric and heat vs two people sharing those expenses.

Now, about the Exchange and this so called discrimination against a married couple with no kids.....a policy for two married people is CHEAPER than doubling the policy price of 2 individuals...that right there makes up the difference between the federal poverty level disparity for individuals and families of 2....you don't need DOUBLE the subsidy assistance as an individual's subsidy, because the policy for the married couple is much cheaper than the policies of 2 single individuals.

so, this gripe is blowing hot air for nothing....honestly it is....

 

[Care4all]

APNewsBreak: Adding a new baby to plan not easy



If a family is just over 133% of federal poverty level, could having a baby make them fall below and make them have to repay the subsidies they received?

Maybe I have the threshold wrong, but you know what I'm getting at. Could having a baby make someone owe the government a subsidy refund?

Good question...don't know, but I would presume that the insurance coverage that they got up to the point of Delivery will be covered and they won't owe a penny more, until the time of change in family members....if it does put them in the doughnut hole....

All States need to add the Medicaid expansion option....this will solve a great many of the ills with Obamacare for the poorest among us.

These States, including mine are HURTING their very citizens who are the least among us, while helping those families of 4 making 90k a year....it is simply wrong, wrong, wrong....and the citizens in the States without the expansion are paying for the Healthcare of all of these Medicaid expansion State citizens, without reaping the benefit for their own citizens and neighbors....

I don't like that one bit and am urging our Congress to add the Medicaid expansion....for the poor.

 

[Jroc]

The Health Exchange Marriage Penalty


Just as there are penalties in the tax code for couples who get married, financial penalties in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) also discourage couples from "tying the knot." The ACA establishes state health insurance exchanges where qualifying individuals can purchase subsidized, individual health insurance, starting in October 2013.

However, the exchange subsidies are more generous to unmarried couples than to couples who marry.

Who Qualifies for Health Insurance Exchange Subsidies? All legal U.S. residents will be allowed to purchase health coverage in the exchange. However, subsidies will only be available to individuals and families with incomes from 100 percent to 400 percent of the federal poverty level - from about $23,550 to more than $94,200 for a family of four. Families with incomes below 133 percent must enroll in Medicaid if it is available, and if they qualify to participate in their state. In addition, individuals who have access to affordable employer coverage will not receive subsidies.

The exchange subsidies are rather generous to low-income individuals. Qualifying individuals and families earning 100 percent of the federal poverty level will pay no more than 2 percent of their income. The federal government will cover the rest of their premiums. As income rises, the subsidies phase out, but a family earning 400 percent of the poverty level will pay no more than 9.5 percent of its income in premiums.

The Federal Poverty Level (FPL) does not rise proportionally with the number of individuals in the family. For example, the federal poverty level is $11,490 for a single individual, but only $15,510 for a family of two adults (that is, $4,020 more for a married couple). Thus, because the federal poverty level is not a multiple of family size, two unmarried individuals qualify for larger combined exchange subsidies than they would if they were married.

Penalty for Getting Married. The blue bars in the figure represent the subsidy available to married couples in each income group, while the combined red and blue bars represent the combined subsidy available to unmarried couples (whether they live together or independently). The red bars show the amount of health insurance subsidy penalties couples will suffer by getting married. The penalties are especially high for moderate-income couples.

Consider the case of two unmarried college students each earning 200 percent of the FPL (about $23,000 annually), who move in together. If that same couple married, their combined household income of nearly $46,000 would rise as a percent of the poverty level from 200 percent (individually) to 296 percent for a married family of two. As a result, their premiums in the health insurance exchange would be capped at a higher percentage of their income, providing a smaller total subsidy. Instead of capping their individual premiums at 6.3 percent of income as two individuals earning twice the FPL, their premiums would be capped at 9.4 percent of income for a family of two earning 296 percent of poverty.

The Health Exchange Marriage Penalty | NCPA

The federal Poverty level does this...which was there LONG before the ACA/obamacare....and that is because the Federal Poverty level presumes that 2 people married and living together have less of an expense to live than 2 single individuals living on their own paying 2 rents, individually buying their own food, paying their own electric and heat vs two people sharing those expenses.

Now, about the Exchange and this so called discrimination against a married couple with no kids.....a policy for two married people is CHEAPER than doubling the policy price of 2 individualsthat right there makes up the difference between the federal poverty level disparity for individuals and families of 2....you don't need DOUBLE the subsidy assistance as an individual's subsidy, because the policy for the married couple is much cheaper than the policies of 2 single individuals.
so, this gripe is blowing hot air for nothing....honestly it is....

Yeah? do have numbers to back that up? one single person might qualify for medicare where as the if they were married and combined their incomes they wouldn't. Incentive not to be married? insurance policies are going up across the board regardless I can personally vouch for that fact... Way up.

 

[Jroc]

APNewsBreak: Adding a new baby to plan not easy



If a family is just over 133% of federal poverty level, could having a baby make them fall below and make them have to repay the subsidies they received?

Maybe I have the threshold wrong, but you know what I'm getting at. Could having a baby make someone owe the government a subsidy refund?

Good question...don't know, but I would presume that the insurance coverage that they got up to the point of Delivery will be covered and they won't owe a penny more, until the time of change in family members....if it does put them in the doughnut hole....

All States need to add the Medicaid expansion option....this will solve a great many of the ills with Obamacare for the poorest among us.

These States, including mine are HURTING their very citizens who are the least among us, while helping those families of 4 making 90k a year....it is simply wrong, wrong, wrong....and the citizens in the States without the expansion are paying for the Healthcare of all of these Medicaid expansion State citizens, without reaping the benefit for their own citizens and neighbors....

I don't like that one bit and am urging our Congress to add the Medicaid expansion....for the poor.

People who used to buy their own coverage are now moving to Medicare...you personally want a single payer system...Obamacare is nothing but a scrambled, mess, of payoffs and crony deals. All the money were are wasting ,we could have taken care of the 20 % who didn't have insurance, without screwing up everyone else's coverage

 

[Care4all]

APNewsBreak: Adding a new baby to plan not easy



If a family is just over 133% of federal poverty level, could having a baby make them fall below and make them have to repay the subsidies they received?

Maybe I have the threshold wrong, but you know what I'm getting at. Could having a baby make someone owe the government a subsidy refund?

Good question...don't know, but I would presume that the insurance coverage that they got up to the point of Delivery will be covered and they won't owe a penny more, until the time of change in family members....if it does put them in the doughnut hole....

All States need to add the Medicaid expansion option....this will solve a great many of the ills with Obamacare for the poorest among us.

These States, including mine are HURTING their very citizens who are the least among us, while helping those families of 4 making 90k a year....it is simply wrong, wrong, wrong....and the citizens in the States without the expansion are paying for the Healthcare of all of these Medicaid expansion State citizens, without reaping the benefit for their own citizens and neighbors....

I don't like that one bit and am urging our Congress to add the Medicaid expansion....for the poor.

People who used to buy their own coverage are now moving to Medicare...you personally want a single payer system...Obamacare is nothing but a scrambled, mess, of payoffs and crony deals. All the money were are wasting ,we could have taken care of the 20 % who didn't have insurance, without screwing up everyone else's coverage

Medicaid Insurance costs less money per individual than insurance on Obamacare, and it has BETTER coverage for this lesser amount of money for the government to pay, with our tax dollars.... I'm for less spending...and the medicaid expansion is the way to go for the poorest among us imo.

 

[Jroc]

Good question...don't know, but I would presume that the insurance coverage that they got up to the point of Delivery will be covered and they won't owe a penny more, until the time of change in family members....if it does put them in the doughnut hole....

All States need to add the Medicaid expansion option....this will solve a great many of the ills with Obamacare for the poorest among us.

These States, including mine are HURTING their very citizens who are the least among us, while helping those families of 4 making 90k a year....it is simply wrong, wrong, wrong....and the citizens in the States without the expansion are paying for the Healthcare of all of these Medicaid expansion State citizens, without reaping the benefit for their own citizens and neighbors....

I don't like that one bit and am urging our Congress to add the Medicaid expansion....for the poor.

People who used to buy their own coverage are now moving to Medicare...you personally want a single payer system...Obamacare is nothing but a scrambled, mess, of payoffs and crony deals. All the money were are wasting ,we could have taken care of the 20 % who didn't have insurance, without screwing up everyone else's coverage

Medicaid Insurance costs less money per individual than insurance on Obamacare, and it has BETTER coverage for this lesser amount of money for the government to pay, with our tax dollars.... I'm for less spending...and the medicaid expansion is the way to go for the poorest among us imo.

individuals paying for their own coverage cost less, and too many doctors aren't even taking Medicaid anymore, because in too many of cases, the payment doesn't even cover their costs. Better coverage than Obamacare? Maybe so,But both stink and cut down on the choices people have plus states going broke paying for Medicaid. Better to increase competition and cut cost that way Medicaid is for the "very poor" only

 

[Care4all]

People who used to buy their own coverage are now moving to Medicare...you personally want a single payer system...Obamacare is nothing but a scrambled, mess, of payoffs and crony deals. All the money were are wasting ,we could have taken care of the 20 % who didn't have insurance, without screwing up everyone else's coverage

Medicaid Insurance costs less money per individual than insurance on Obamacare, and it has BETTER coverage for this lesser amount of money for the government to pay, with our tax dollars.... I'm for less spending...and the medicaid expansion is the way to go for the poorest among us imo.

individuals paying for their own coverage cost less, and too many doctors aren't even taking Medicare anymore, because in too many of cases, the payment doesn't even cover their costs. Better coverage than Obamacare? Maybe so,But both stink and cut down on the choices people have plus states going broke paying for Medicare. Better to increase competition and cut cost that way Medicare is for the "very poor" only

Where you used the term "Medicare" did you mean to say "Medicaid", Jroc?

Cuz they are NOT the same programs.....?

 

[Jroc]

Medicaid Insurance costs less money per individual than insurance on Obamacare, and it has BETTER coverage for this lesser amount of money for the government to pay, with our tax dollars.... I'm for less spending...and the medicaid expansion is the way to go for the poorest among us imo.

individuals paying for their own coverage cost less, and too many doctors aren't even taking Medicare anymore, because in too many of cases, the payment doesn't even cover their costs. Better coverage than Obamacare? Maybe so,But both stink and cut down on the choices people have plus states going broke paying for Medicare. Better to increase competition and cut cost that way Medicare is for the "very poor" only

Where you used the term "Medicare" did you mean to say "Medicaid", Jroc?

Cuz they are NOT the same programs.....?

Oops... my mistake let me change it

 

[Care4all]

jroc....we do not in any way have a "free market" situation with Healthcare in this Nation....the government has had its fingers in it for nearly 100 years now....the gvt gives tax write offs to the businesses for supplying health care benefits at those companies, the gvt gives tax write offs to individuals for the amount they pay towards their premiums through their employer, the government funds more than 50% of ALL medical research done in this nation, the gvt helps Pharma secure a monopoly of sorts on branded drugs for a longer period of time than initially in the law...the government pays for the healthcare of Veterans, and the Military and for all Federal employees in the nation and pays for Pharma research and development as well, and pays the Hospitals for taking in the indigent, and gives tax payers a write off on their taxes if they spend more than 7% of income, and the gvt created HSA's with tax benefits for health care spending, and the gvt pays for CHIP, the healthcare of children and the gvt is involved with Medicare and Medicaid and Military retiree health care and on and on and on and on and on.....

Our gvt is up to its eyeball's with it's involvement with this supposed "free market" in healthcare and that's BEFORE Obamacare was even introduced.

there is no way, that their involvement will stop and if their involvement does not stop in every way they are involved, there will NEVER be a "free market" with health care OR LOWER prices as you seem to think can happen...

 

[Jroc]

jroc....we do not in any way have a "free market" situation with Healthcare in this Nation....the government has had its fingers in it for nearly 100 years now....the gvt gives tax write offs to the businesses for supplying health care benefits at those companies, the gvt gives tax write offs to individuals for the amount they pay towards their premiums through their employer, the government funds more than 50% of ALL medical research done in this nation, the gvt helps Pharma secure a monopoly of sorts on branded drugs for a longer period of time than initially in the law...the government pays for the healthcare of Veterans, and the Military and for all Federal employees in the nation and pays for Pharma research and development as well, and pays the Hospitals for taking in the indigent, and gives tax payers a write off on their taxes if they spend more than 7% of income, and the gvt created HSA's with tax benefits for health care spending, and the gvt pays for CHIP, the healthcare of children and the gvt is involved with Medicare and Medicaid and Military retiree health care and on and on and on and on and on.....

Our gvt is up to its eyeball's with it's involvement with this supposed "free market" in healthcare and that's BEFORE Obamacare was even introduced.

there is no way, that their involvement will stop and if their involvement does not stop in every way they are involved, there will NEVER be a "free market" with health care OR LOWER prices as you seem to think can happen...

of course we don't have a free market, the government pays for too many things, that doesn't mean we haft to add more to it. We need real reform, not more crony deals, which is what Obamacare is. Veterans earned their benefits, the rest can be reformed, we need tax reform as well. Obama promised reform he gave us more cronyism. Do you know how much money is wasted on the bureaucracy alone?

 

[dblack]

Resistance its futile.

 

[Care4all]

Resistance its futile.

No DB... I just want to know if the country is willing to give up all of that cronyism OR NOT....

if the people that work and get their healthcare from their employer .....are they willing for the government to no longer give them the tax write off for it and chance that their employer takes the benefit away? Are the citizens willing to give up not having to pay taxes on their health care spending? Are the citizens willing to give up on the governments funding most of medical research and development? Or are they willing to give up what the gvt spends on Medical schools and medical students so that we have enough doctors?

Cuz as it stands, I don't see that happening....it's all about "me" to most citizens and they are not willing to give up what they have.... so yes, it is impossible to "correct" the system as long as ALL of these things are going on which makes health care unaffordable and causes us to need something like Obamacare or like a Universal Health Care Plan in the first place imo.

 

[dblack]

Resistance its futile.

No DB... I just want to know if the country is willing to give up all of that cronyism OR NOT....

if the people that work and get their healthcare from their employe....r are they willing for the government to no longer give them the tax write off for it and chance that their employer takes the benefit away? Are the citizens willing to give up not having to pay taxes on their health care spending? Are the citizens willing to give up on the governments funding most of medical research and development? Or are they willing to give up what the gvt spends on Medical schools and medical students so that we have enough doctors?

Cuz as it stands, I don't see that happening....it's all about "me" to most citizens and they are not willing to give up what they have.... so yes, it is impossible to "correct" the system as long as ALL of these things are going on which makes health care unaffordable and causes us to need something like Obamacare or like a Universal Health Care Plan in the first place imo.

Sad, but true.

 

[dblack]

Resistance its futile.

No DB... I just want to know if the country is willing to give up all of that cronyism OR NOT....

if the people that work and get their healthcare from their employe....r are they willing for the government to no longer give them the tax write off for it and chance that their employer takes the benefit away? Are the citizens willing to give up not having to pay taxes on their health care spending? Are the citizens willing to give up on the governments funding most of medical research and development? Or are they willing to give up what the gvt spends on Medical schools and medical students so that we have enough doctors?

Cuz as it stands, I don't see that happening....it's all about "me" to most citizens and they are not willing to give up what they have.... so yes, it is impossible to "correct" the system as long as ALL of these things are going on which makes health care unaffordable and causes us to need something like Obamacare or like a Universal Health Care Plan in the first place imo.

Sad, but true.

Which is to say, "Resistance is futile".

 

[Jroc]

No DB... I just want to know if the country is willing to give up all of that cronyism OR NOT....

if the people that work and get their healthcare from their employe....r are they willing for the government to no longer give them the tax write off for it and chance that their employer takes the benefit away? Are the citizens willing to give up not having to pay taxes on their health care spending? Are the citizens willing to give up on the governments funding most of medical research and development? Or are they willing to give up what the gvt spends on Medical schools and medical students so that we have enough doctors?

Cuz as it stands, I don't see that happening....it's all about "me" to most citizens and they are not willing to give up what they have.... so yes, it is impossible to "correct" the system as long as ALL of these things are going on which makes health care unaffordable and causes us to need something like Obamacare or like a Universal Health Care Plan in the first place imo.

Sad, but true.

Which is to say, "Resistance its futile".

Default and bankruptcy is inevitable then. 90 trillion in unfunded liabilities

 

[Jroc]

Obamacare Confusion Causes Patients to Walk Out of Hospitals

Patients in northern Virginia are walking out of hospitals untreated due to uncertainty regarding their coverage after Obamacare’s Jan. 1 deadline.

The Daily Mail reported that patients were told by hospital administrators that they were not sure if the patients were covered by their new insurance.

Obamacare Confusion Causes Patients to Walk Out of Hospitals | Washington Free Beacon