The MAFIA killed Oswald

[mikegriffith1]

Your conspiracy falls apart in just 4 minutes

No, you've simply ignored every fact I cited.

After shooting Oswald, Ruby was arrested and a Western Union receipt was found in his pocket.
That receipt was stamped just four minutes before Ruby shot Oswald.
Agents ran to the Western Union office and found the signed transcript of the money transfer, verified the time and the clerk identified Ruby.
Four minutes

Well, yeah, that was the idea! That was his alibi! But why didn't he buy the money order at the Western Union that was just blocks away from his residence in Oak Cliff? Why did he drive all the way into downtown Dallas to buy the money order? Why was he dressed like a reporter or a detective if he was supposedly on his way to his club when it was closed? Why was he carrying a gun? Why didn't he carry his wallet and car keys with him? Why did he lie about how he entered the police basement?

FYI, Ruby later admitted, in a filmed interview, that he was manipulated into shooting Oswald. He also admitted, in writing, that his excuse for shooting Oswald was false.

So in your world, the mafia plan was for Ruby to not be in the basement at the time Oswald was supposed to be transferred

Ruby knew about the delay. Again, why did he lie about how he entered the basement? If his presence in the basement was just an innocent, whopping coincidence, why did he lie about how he got here? Here's a hint: The HSCA determined that he must have had help getting into the basement because he could not have gone down the Main Street ramp. The HSCA also found that a Mob-connected police sergeant removed the guards who were guarding the side entrance that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby arrived.

but show up after the scheduled time,

Because he knew about the delay. That's one reason he lied about how he entered the basement. That's why he was carrying a gun on a Sunday. That's why he was wearing a suit and tie.

bring his favorite dog and leave it in the car

Umm, yeah, this was part of his lame attempt to make his hit on Oswald appear to be a spontaneous action. Yet, when you examine the facts, his silly alibi collapses. He didn't need to drive all the way into Dallas to get a money order. He had no credible reason to be wearing a suit and tie. He had no innocent reason to be carrying a gun. He had no innocent reason to leave his wallet and car keys in his car with $900 in the trunk.

and then show up in the basement minutes before Oswald came down

Which just shows that his alibi was obvious bunk. He was wearing a suit and tie so he would not stand out among all the detectives and journalists and would not risk being challenged about why he was there. He was carrying a gun because he intended to shoot Oswald.

And to repeat: Ruby later admitted, in a filmed interview, that he was manipulated into shooting Oswald. He also admitted, in writing, that his excuse for shooting Oswald was false.

 

[rightwinger]

No, you've simply ignored every fact I cited.

Well, yeah, that was the idea! That was his alibi! But why didn't he buy the money order at the Western Union that was just blocks away from his residence in Oak Cliff? Why did he drive all the way into downtown Dallas to buy the money order? Why was he dressed like a reporter or a detective if he was supposedly on his way to his club when it was closed? Why was he carrying a gun? Why didn't he carry his wallet and car keys with him? Why did he lie about how he entered the police basement?

FYI, Ruby later admitted, in a filmed interview, that he was manipulated into shooting Oswald. He also admitted, in writing, that his excuse for shooting Oswald was false.


Ruby knew about the delay. Again, why did he lie about how he entered the basement? If his presence in the basement was just an innocent, whopping coincidence, why did he lie about how he got here? Here's a hint: The HSCA determined that he must have had help getting into the basement because he could not have gone down the Main Street ramp. The HSCA also found that a Mob-connected police sergeant removed the guards who were guarding the side entrance that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby arrived.


Because he knew about the delay. That's one reason he lied about how he entered the basement. That's why he was carrying a gun on a Sunday. That's why he was wearing a suit and tie.


Umm, yeah, this was part of his lame attempt to make his hit on Oswald appear to be a spontaneous action. Yet, when you examine the facts, his silly alibi collapses. He didn't need to drive all the way into Dallas to get a money order. He had no credible reason to be wearing a suit and tie. He had no innocent reason to be carrying a gun. He had no innocent reason to leave his wallet and car keys in his car with $900 in the trunk.


Which just shows that his alibi was obvious bunk. He was wearing a suit and tie so he would not stand out among all the detectives and journalists and would not risk being challenged about why he was there. He was carrying a gun because he intended to shoot Oswald.

And to repeat: Ruby later admitted, in a filmed interview, that he was manipulated into shooting Oswald. He also admitted, in writing, that his excuse for shooting Oswald was false.

4 minutes

If Ruby was sent to kill Oswald, why wasn’t he at the site a half hour earlier when Oswald was supposed to come downstairs?
He showed up minutes before

If he knew he would be killed or captured. Why leave his dog in his car. Ruby hated people, he loved his dog

 

[mikegriffith1]

4 minutes. If Ruby was sent to kill Oswald, why wasn’t he at the site a half hour earlier when Oswald was supposed to come downstairs? He showed up minutes before. If he knew he would be killed or captured. Why leave his dog in his car. Ruby hated people, he loved his dog

Umm, is this supposed to be your answer to the facts I cited? Let's recap:

-- Ruby knew about the delay.

--Ruby left his dog in the car as part of his clumsy attempt to make his hit on Oswald appear to be a spontaneous, unplanned action.

-- Ruby gave away his unplanned-action ploy by dressing in a nice suit and tie, by carrying a gun, by leaving his wallet and keys in his car, and by leaving a large sum of money in his car. He had no plausible, innocent reason to do any of these things. His phony attempt at an alibi is obvious to anyone who's not wearing blinders.

-- Ruby later admitted, in writing, to his second attorney that his claim that he shot Oswald in a fit of rage over his grief for JFK's wife and kids was false.

-- Ruby later admitted, on camera, that he was manipulated into shooting Oswald.

-- The HSCA determined that Ruby must have had help getting into the basement, and the committee focused on a Mob-connected Dallas police sergeant who was in charge of security in the basement, noting that the security guards near the back door that Ruby used were pulled away shortly before Ruby entered.

-- The HSCA proved that Ruby could not have entered the basement via the Main Street ramp, which is how Ruby claimed he got into the basement.

-- The first person to visit Ruby in jail after his arrest was none other than Dallas Mafia boss Joseph Civello. Any idea why the Mob boss of Dallas visited Ruby in jail?

-- In the weeks leading up to the assassination, Ruby placed numerous calls to high-level Mafia contacts all over the country.

-- An IRS informant later revealed that Ruby had foreknowledge of the assassination. The IRS and FBI records on this disclosure were released decades ago.

-- Ruby was involved in gun running for the Mafia. He even visited Cuba as part of his gun-running activities.

-- The HSCA found that Ruby's FBI polygraph indicated he was lying when he denied playing a role in the JFK assassination.

I should add that Ruby had been stalking Oswald in the previous 36 hours.

Gunrunner Ruby and the CIA

Lisa Pease examines ties between Ruby and the Agency's anti-Castro activities, and argues that the remaining documents on Eddie Browder, including the full text of his executive session testimony before the HSCA, be released.

www.kennedysandking.com

 

[rightwinger]

Ruby knew about the delay.

In your fantasy conspiracy world.

In the real world, nobody knew exactly when Oswald was coming down.
For a Mafia hit man timing it to the minute is too risky.

 

[rightwinger]

Ruby left his dog in the car as part of his clumsy attempt to make his hit on Oswald appear to be a spontaneous, unplanned action.

Ruby was on a suicide mission.
He cared more about his dog than he did about people.
He would have made plans for someone to watch his dog…..not leave it in a car

 

[rightwinger]

The first person to visit Ruby in jail after his arrest was none other than Dallas Mafia boss Joseph Civello. Any idea why the Mob boss of Dallas visited Ruby in jail?

Ruby, like Oswald, was poorly suited for the Mafia hit man role.
Anyone who knew Ruby knew he was a braggart who couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
Mafia wouldn’t want this guy shooting his mouth off in prison

 

[mikegriffith1]

In your fantasy conspiracy world.

Says the guy who buys a tale (the Warren Commission's lone-gunman myth) that is rejected by 2/3 to 3/4 of the western world. You keep ignoring a pile of evidence that you can't explain.

Ruby's note admitting that his rage-grief-over-Kennedy-family excuse for shooting Oswald was false is hard evidence, not fantasy. The filmed interview of Ruby admitting that he was manipulated into shooting Oswald is hard evidence, not fantasy. Ruby's FBI polygraph results that indicate he lied about playing no role in JFK's death are available for anyone to review, not fantasy. The IRS informant's report on Ruby's foreknowledge of the assassination is hard evidence, not fantasy. I notice you keep ignoring this evidence.

In the real world, nobody knew exactly when Oswald was coming down.

That's just silly. The police knew when Oswald was coming down. The Mafia-linked police sergeant, Patrick Dean, who pulled security guards off the back entrance that Ruby used to enter the basement, knew when Oswald was coming down.

For a Mafia hit man timing it to the minute is too risky.

Not if you have inside help from people who are determined to allow you to shoot Oswald. You know that witnesses said that Ruby waited outside the Western Union office for a minute or two before entering, right? What was he waiting for?

For that matter, why didn't Ruby go to the Western Union in Oak Cliff instead of driving all the way downtown to the Western Union office that "just happened" to be across the street from the Dallas police HQ building?

Ruby was on a suicide mission.
He cared more about his dog than he did about people.
He would have made plans for someone to watch his dog…..not leave it in a car.

This is beyond silly. Ruby cared a lot more about his own life than some dog. When the Mafia orders you to make a hit, you do it. One of the guards in the jail reported that when Ruby heard that Oswald had died from his wounds, he was visibly relieved, as if a great burden had been lifted from him. Yeah, he knew that if he failed to kill Oswald, he faced terrible retribution for his failure.

Ruby, like Oswald, was poorly suited for the Mafia hit man role.

Nonsense. Ruby was the perfect type of Mafia operative to do the hit. He knew the police well. He had easy access to police buildings, as evidenced by his presence at Fritz's first press conference. He could enter the basement and not be challenged by any of the police officers there. (To ensure he didn't seem out of place, Ruby wore a nice suit and tie so he would look like a newsman or a detective.) He had a history of being willing to commit violence. He had done gun-running for the Mob in the 1950s.

Again, why do you suppose that the very first person to visit Ruby in jail was none other than the Mafia boss of Dallas, Joseph Civello, who worked for Mafia kingpin Carlos Marcello? In fact, Civello ran Marcello's operations in Dallas. Now why in the world would a high-level Mafia don, the crime boss of the entire of Dallas, bother to visit Jack Ruby in jail?

Anyone who knew Ruby knew he was a braggart who couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
Mafia wouldn’t want this guy shooting his mouth off in prison

More nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about. Ruby did not start to spill the beans for several months, until he realized he would not be getting off with a light sentence.

 

[rightwinger]

Says the guy who buys a tale (the Warren Commission's lone-gunman myth) that is rejected by 2/3 to 3/4 of the western world

Warren Commission was spot on
Oswald acted alone

Your conspiracy falls apart when after 60 years, NOBODY has named a coconspirator.

Oswald acting alone is confirmed by the fact that he used a $19.95 surplus rifle and had to take the bus to escape the scene.

Even a coworker or friend who conspired with him would have had a car waiting outside the Texas Schoolbook Depository.

If the Mafia, CIA, Russians, Cubans were involved they would have had a car waiting and Oswald would never be seen again

 

[Papageorgio]

Ruby, like Oswald, was poorly suited for the Mafia hit man role.
Anyone who knew Ruby knew he was a braggart who couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
Mafia wouldn’t want this guy shooting his mouth off in prison

The fear of crossing the Mafia was a given to those in the Mafia, the prison was no escape from the control of the Mafia. Hell the US government didn’t recognize or realize there was even a Mafia until 1957. It was only until sophisticated wiretapping came that brought down the Mafia as we know it, it still has power today but not as powerful .

 

[longly]

It’s much more likely that Castro was involved in the Kennedy assassination than either the CIA or the Mafia. Oswald was a lifelong communist and Marxist. I believe he entered the military with the idea of defecting to the Soviet Union. Like I said, I believe that Castro was involved in some way—even if only through encouragement. Oswald was an admirer of Castro. President Johnson also believed this.

 

[whitehall]

It’s much more likely that Castro was involved in the Kennedy assassination than either the CIA or the Mafia. Oswald was a lifelong communist and Marxist. I believe he entered the military with the idea of defecting to the Soviet Union. Like I said, I believe that Castro was involved in some way—even if only through encouragement. Oswald was an admirer of Castro. President Johnson also believed this.

JFK's own brother was a maniac who was fixated on Castro. JFK used the CIA to organize and train and equip an illegal invasion army to overthrow Castro and it failed and they forgot about their programmed assassin.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Warren Commission was spot on Oswald acted alone

Uh-huh, this puts you in a small minority of adults in the western world.

We now know that Oswald was not even on the sixth floor of the Book Depository during the shooting. He was downstairs eating lunch and watching the motorcade from the front entrance, just as he told the police.

Are you aware that two of the seven members of the Warren Commission did not believe Oswald acted alone and rejected the commission's whitewash of Jack Ruby's Mafia ties?

Your conspiracy falls apart when after 60 years, NOBODY has named a coconspirator.

Are you living in an alternate reality where the year is 1965? Clearly you have read almost nothing about the JFK case. What about the informant-recorded admission of Mafia kingpin Carlos Marcello that he played a role in the plot to kill Kennedy? What about the IRS undercover agent who revealed that Ruby had foreknowledge of the assassination? What about the acoustical evidence from a Dallas police dictabelt recorded during the shooting that proves that at least four shots were fired and that one of the shots came from the grassy knoll? What about the optical-density measurements of the JFK autopsy skull x-rays, confirmed by several medical specialists, that prove the x-rays were altered and do not match the autopsy photos of the head? And on and on and on we could go.

The HSCA Acoustical Evidence: Proof of a Second Gunman

Oswald acting alone is confirmed by the fact that he used a $19.95 surplus rifle and had to take the bus to escape the scene.

You're repeating myths that were debunked decades ago. Forensic science has proven that the damage done to JFK's skull could not have been done by the kind of rifle and ammo that Oswald allegedly used. Firearms experts and ballistics tests have confirmed that one of the shells found in the sixth-floor "sniper's next" could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination.

Since you don't seem to be much of a reader, you might watch the 2021 documentary JFK Revisited to get up to speed on developments in the JFK case over the last 10 years. I especially recommend the segment on the evidence that Oswald was not even on the sixth floor, much less in the "sniper's nest," during the shooting.

Or, you can check out the videos that I have linked on my Articles and Videos page of my JFK assassination website (LINK).

Even a coworker or friend who conspired with him would have had a car waiting outside the Texas Schoolbook Depository.

Umm, and Oswald was seen getting into a waiting station wagon soon after the shooting. Several people saw this and reported it to the police, but the Warren Commission dismissed their accounts as "mistaken," even though the car they described can be seen in film/photos taken in Dealey Plaza at that time.

If the Mafia, CIA, Russians, Cubans were involved they would have had a car waiting and Oswald would never be seen again

One, see above. Two, heard of Red Bird Airport?

Oswald was not supposed to be seen again, but that part of the plan went awry. Even the most carefully planned and rehearsed military operations do not always go as planned. Sometimes mistakes happen in spite of careful planning.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Another problem with Ruby's alibi story is that the HSCA determined that no more than 55 seconds elapsed between the time Ruby says he went down the Main Street ramp and the time he shot Oswald. Ruby claimed he went down the ramp when Lt. Pierce's car drove up the ramp, but Pierce did not start driving up the ramp until 55 seconds before Ruby fired at Oswald (9 HSCA 143). Moreover, Ruby sent his telegram 4 minutes before he shot Oswald. What was Ruby doing in the 3 minutes between his sending of the telegram and his alleged trip down the Main Street ramp?

Needless to say, these facts alone blow to pieces the claim that Ruby's shooting of Oswald was an unplanned, spontaneous act of rage.

In addition to noting the 4 minutes between Ruby's telegram and his firing at Oswald, the HSCA found it improbable that Ruby could have made it from the Western Union office to his shooting spot in the basement in just 55 seconds if he entered via the Main Street ramp, and that Ruby most likely entered the basement via a door in the alley:

The evidence available indicates that Jack Ruby did not come own the Main Street ramp when Lieutenant Pierce's car exited. The weight of the eyewitness evidence belies this route, and the testimony of various witnesses who supported this route was often inconsistent and inconclusive. Further, the fact that 55 seconds had elapsed between the time the police car cleared the crowd at the bottom of the ramp and the moment of the shooting militates against the Main Street ramp route. This interval would had to have included driving the car up the ramp, hesitation at the ramp entrance before pulling out into the street, Ruby's walk down the ramp and his momentarily positioning himself behind Detective Harrison's shoulder before darting out to shoot Oswald (a movement which is evident from the video tapes and photographs of the incident). While this amount of action is possible in that time, it is improbable.

The alley route was the most likely alternative because of the factors of time and distance, the lack of security in the garage area and along the entire route, and the testimony concerning the security at the doors along the route. This possibility was not considered or investigated by the FBI or the Dallas Police Department and was virtually ignored by the Warren Commission. (9 HSCA 146)

 

[mikegriffith1]

Here are the real kickers: Jack Ruby's letter to his guard Al Maddox, in which he told Maddox he was framed and that he killed Oswald in order to silence him, and the fact that Ruby was seen loitering near the police building twice earlier that morning, clearly blowing to pieces his spontaneous-action alibi.

Here's Ruby's letter to Maddox:

"You've known me for a long time and you you've known how I struggled make my clubs go. Also Lynn has known me up to this time I've that I've gotten into trouble. Johny Crank, myself, and Lynn have been out to dinner many times and I'm sure they know what kind of person I am. Well, this all adds up to what I'm going to tell you. That I've been framed for the assassination, that my motive was to silence Oswald."

Dallas sheriff Al Maddox was one of Ruby's guards from 1963 until the very last days when Ruby fell ill. Ruby secretly handed over a short letter to Maddox, who kept the letter secret for some 25 years. Maddox displayed and discussed the letter publicly for the first time during a 1992 TV program The Kennedy Assassinations: Coincidence of Conspiracy? A handwriting expert appeared on the program and verified that the letter was in Jack Ruby's handwriting.

As for Ruby's suspicious loitering near the police building earlier that morning, two WBAP-TV employees encountered Ruby near the police building twice between 7:30 and 10:00 AM. The police had told journalists that Oswald would be transferred at 10:00 AM. Shortly after 9:00 AM, the police cleared the basement of all but police department personnel, and guards were stationed at the top of the Main and Commerce Street auto ramps leading down into the basement.

John Smith, a video reporter for WBAP-TV, saw Ruby at about 8:00 AM on 11/24 standing on the Commerce St. sidewalk. The WBAB-TV truck was parked on Commerce St. about 25 feet from the basement ramp. Smith spoke to Ruby. Smith saw Ruby again at about 10:00 AM next to the ramp. Smith said Ruby looked like a person who was "just killing time."

Ira Walker, a WBAB-TV employee, saw Ruby between 7:30 and 8:00 AM near the WBAB-TV truck. Walker said he first saw Ruby shortly after the armored truck was backed into the police department basement. Ruby came up to the TV truck and asked if Oswald had been brought down yet. Walker told him "no." Walker said Ruby came up to the truck again a while later and asked the same question.

The fact that Ruby showed up before and during the timeframe originally given for Oswald's transfer destroys his spontaneous-action alibi. It also belies his claim that he drove to downtown Dallas to wire money to one of his dancers. He actually arrived at the police building over 3 hours before he went to the Western Union office.

 

[Zebra]

Oswald read in the papers that the JFK motorcade would pass by the building he worked. So he went home, got his rifle, fired three shots……one of which blew JFKs brains out

So it was

 

[rightwinger]

The fact that Ruby showed up before and during the timeframe originally given for Oswald's transfer destroys his spontaneous-action alibi. It also belies his claim that he drove to downtown Dallas to wire money to one of his dancers.

Doesn’t negate the fact that Ruby wired the money from Western Union a few minutes before Oswald was brought down. Ruby was there, the clerk identified him and his signature was on the receipt.
Someone intending to kill Oswald would have waited