The Lazy Poor

[Truthmatters]

my idea of fun doesnt include you LYING your ass off



http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html

 

[PoliticalChic]

my idea of fun doesnt include you LYING your ass off



http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html

C'mon, now....don't be upset....winning isn't everything.


I'm thinkin' we should take this show on the road!


You could even have top billing: "The Truthie and PC Show!"



I'll be Punch....you be Judy



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLsO6LpLSI]Punch and Judy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JoeB131]

I get the feeling that you resent any folks who have done better in life than you have.

Jealousy is debilitating to one's happiness.

Bulletin:
You never had to work for anyone else.

Never.

Check out the 13th amendment.

Good luck in your new endeavors.

I resent when people lie and abuse their authority. I'm just wondering why you don't.

I think you misinterpret what the 13th Amendment was about.

It was about not letting those with wealth abuse those without wealth. We also had something called the Labor Movement.

Incidently, we have a LABOR DAY but we don't have an ENTERPENUER DAY. we also have a MEMORIAL DAY to remember those who died ending slavery. We don't have a day to celebrate the Robber Barons who exploited working people. Because those folks weren't worth celebrating.

Probably because as a people, we realize which movement was more important to making America great.

Just sayin'.

The Republican Party used to get this...

*"Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

*"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice."

*"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."---Republican President Dwight Eisenhower


Wow, you mean you had a Republican President who once used to actually value American working people.

One who didn't say shit like "I like to fire people" and "47% don't pay taxes, so I don't care about them."

1. “Every individual is continually exerting himself to find out the most advantageous employment for whatever capital he can command. It is his own advantage, indeed, and not that of the society which he has in view. ..[/url]

I got to put a stop to this right there. Because, honestly, just cutting and pasting the "GLories of Greed" stuff isn't a converstation.

It's like those tiresome people who'd start throwing bible verses at me when I told them I was an atheist.

How about just telling me what you think validates the current system, rather than quoting this nice sounding propaganda which means nothing in my universe of working three jobs to pay off medical debt.

 

[Truthmatters]

Im telling you she is as dumb as a box of rocks.



she is lying straight into the face of facts in that other thread she started where I proved she was lying with her own posts

 

[Truthmatters]

my idea of fun doesnt include you LYING your ass off



http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html

C'mon, now....don't be upset....winning isn't everything.


I'm thinkin' we should take this show on the road!


You could even have top billing: "The Truthie and PC Show!"



I'll be Punch....you be Judy



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLsO6LpLSI]Punch and Judy - YouTube[/ame]

do you really think this fools anyone?


you are jsut solidifying your failure for all to see.


You did clearly say the mans nature is NOT GOOD.


yet you claim you didnt.


how do you reconcile those facts?

you lie some more .


some christain you are.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I resent when people lie and abuse their authority. I'm just wondering why you don't.

I think you misinterpret what the 13th Amendment was about.

It was about not letting those with wealth abuse those without wealth. We also had something called the Labor Movement.

Incidently, we have a LABOR DAY but we don't have an ENTERPENUER DAY. we also have a MEMORIAL DAY to remember those who died ending slavery. We don't have a day to celebrate the Robber Barons who exploited working people. Because those folks weren't worth celebrating.

Probably because as a people, we realize which movement was more important to making America great.

Just sayin'.

The Republican Party used to get this...

*"Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

*"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice."

*"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."---Republican President Dwight Eisenhower


Wow, you mean you had a Republican President who once used to actually value American working people.

One who didn't say shit like "I like to fire people" and "47% don't pay taxes, so I don't care about them."

1. “Every individual is continually exerting himself to find out the most advantageous employment for whatever capital he can command. It is his own advantage, indeed, and not that of the society which he has in view. ..[/url]

I got to put a stop to this right there. Because, honestly, just cutting and pasting the "GLories of Greed" stuff isn't a converstation.

It's like those tiresome people who'd start throwing bible verses at me when I told them I was an atheist.

How about just telling me what you think validates the current system, rather than quoting this nice sounding propaganda which means nothing in my universe of working three jobs to pay off medical debt.

"... rather than quoting this nice sounding propaganda.."
You mean truth?

Take another spoonful: '"GLories of Greed"???

1. 'Greed, otherwise called covetousness, is a sin. Part of it is envy and resentment. But there is the nonsinful wish for more: ambition. The society need not protect itself from either ambition, nor from covetousness…but, rather, from the crimes committed in their pursuit. Justice requires knowing what is a crime, and what is merely distasteful, or even immoral.'
Mamet

2. 'In the free market, every man, woman and child is scheming to find a better way to make a product or service that will make a fortune!'
Same source.


Imagine....your very own business.....working for yourself.....


Go for it!

 

[PoliticalChic]

my idea of fun doesnt include you LYING your ass off



http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html

C'mon, now....don't be upset....winning isn't everything.


I'm thinkin' we should take this show on the road!


You could even have top billing: "The Truthie and PC Show!"



I'll be Punch....you be Judy



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLsO6LpLSI]Punch and Judy - YouTube[/ame]

do you really think this fools anyone?


you are jsut solidifying your failure for all to see.


You did clearly say the mans nature is NOT GOOD.


yet you claim you didnt.


how do you reconcile those facts?

you lie some more .


some christain you are.

"...all to see."


I'm down wit' dat!

 

[Truthmatters]

and here you have it gentle readers.

The right in this country will lie straight into the face of facts.


It never seems to fail.


they lie and lie and lie and when they are caught they jsut lie some more.



They are sociopaths

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html


your lies will meet you where ever you go on here PC.

your toast

 

[PoliticalChic]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html


your lies will meet you where ever you go on here PC.

your toast

That would be "you're toast."

(Psssttt....I never lie.)

 

[there4eyeM]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/291099-people-good-damn-it.html


your lies will meet you where ever you go on here PC.

your toast

That would be "you're toast."

(Psssttt....I never lie.)

Darn, I thought we were drinking to 'Chic!

 

[Foxfyre]

[
I would like to see nothing more than providing a fair day's work for a fair wage. By and large, wages correspond with qualifications.

When I was young I took some jobs that paid low wages, but I never envied those who made more than I, because I realized that I had my dignity by knowing that I did my job according to the best of my abilities.

Instead bitching and complaining I did whatever I could to improve myself. Lo and behold I made better money.

You get "FAIR" if you give "FAIR".

HORSESHIT!!!!

Employers will pay you what they think they can get away with. It's why I was making better money with no experience at my current job in 2000 (after adjusting for inflation) than I do today with 13 years more experience, Six Sigma and CPIM training.

YOu know how I tell when my boss is lying to me?

His lips are moving.

When you go to the grocery store and see great looking apples for $1/pound, do you pay $2 because you can?

When you shop for a new car, do you pay the sticker price, no questions asked? Or do you negotiate the best deal you can get? If you're buying a Ford, do you pay what a Ford costs, or do you pay what a Cadilac costs so you won't appear 'greedy'?

When you are having your house painted, do you get bids and choose among them? Or do you just hire somebody off the street and pay them all you have to paint your house, however incompetently? (And just ignore that you then don't have the money to pay the water bill or buy those apples or make a down payment on that car.)

But somebody grew those apples. The grocery store can't operate without people to staff it. Somebody manufactured the car and somebody makes a living selling it. And yes the painter needs money to live whether he does an acceptable job on your house or not. So it isn't like there isn't a human factor involved.

The employer is risking HIS money, not yours, when he hires you. He is the one who takes the risk to invest in an infrastructure, acquire the necessary tools, equipment, machinery etc. and inputs, pays for a business license and insurance to operate. He is likely to obtain all that at the best possible price he can get and there is a human element involved in EVERY component necessary for him to do business.

Why should labor be any different?

 

[there4eyeM]

"The employer is risking HIS money, not yours, when he hires you. He is the one who takes the risk to invest in an infrastructure, acquire the necessary tools, equipment, machinery etc. and inputs, pays for a business license and insurance to operate. He is likely to obtain all that at the best possible price he can get and there is a human element involved in EVERY component necessary for him to do business."

You ignore some important fundamentals.

First, the employer is risking little if anything (especially in the US) by hiring someone. On the contrary, it is the worker who makes the investment, and a very precious one - time. She/he contributes a part of his/her life, a quantity which is irreplaceable, in order to do a job and be paid after the fact. If the employer isn't satisfied, the employee can be disposed of (at least in the US) as easily as a used tissue.

Second, and related, is that we aren't talking about apples or cars or paint. We are talking about human beings. As long as a system equates people with objects there will be sickness in it.

When I have had employees, I have always thought of it as they were working with me, not for me. I considered their pay a debt, not a cost. It pleased me greatly to think that an enterprise I started and/or managed provided service to the community and a living to the workers. I've practiced 'capitalism' all my life and I detest those that use it to reduce their fellow beings.

Which reminds me of another thing. So many find it understandable that employers work by the market principle of supply and demand and do all they can to make it work in their favor, but the same people find it dishonest or contemptible when workers try to do the same thing as a group.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Same source.


Imagine....your very own business.....working for yourself.....


Go for it!

I do work for myself.

And I expect NOT TO BE CHEATED.

It's a simple enough concept.

Incidently, I do run a side business that makes up about 10% of my income. You know what, I don't cheat my customers. I pay my taxes. I don't misrepresent what I'm selling.

I expect that when I work for an employer, the same thing applies. Like when you say, "Health Insurance is a part of your compensation package".... that means I really expect NOT to get fired if I run up some medical bills.

Just sayin'...

Or we can just have socialized, single payer universal health care for everyone... that works, too.

 

[JoeB131]

[



But somebody grew those apples. The grocery store can't operate without people to staff it. Somebody manufactured the car and somebody makes a living selling it. And yes the painter needs money to live whether he does an acceptable job on your house or not. So it isn't like there isn't a human factor involved.

That's great. I don't begrudge those people. I begrudge the INVESTOR and the CAPTIALIST who did nothing to provide those goods and services taking more than their fair share of the cost.

[
The employer is risking HIS money, not yours, when he hires you. He is the one who takes the risk to invest in an infrastructure, acquire the necessary tools, equipment, machinery etc. and inputs, pays for a business license and insurance to operate. He is likely to obtain all that at the best possible price he can get and there is a human element involved in EVERY component necessary for him to do business.

Why should labor be any different?

The employer risks nothing. In fact, what I've found is most employers are very good at wasting money because they are poor managers and leaders.

Frankly, what we need is more control of the system by labor, not less. A company that listens to its employees (VoE) usually runs better than one that doesn't.

Again. The Europeans have figured this out. Americans... well, we're kind of retarded. I wonder what can be causing that?

Oh, yeah. That.

 

[Foxfyre]

"The employer is risking HIS money, not yours, when he hires you. He is the one who takes the risk to invest in an infrastructure, acquire the necessary tools, equipment, machinery etc. and inputs, pays for a business license and insurance to operate. He is likely to obtain all that at the best possible price he can get and there is a human element involved in EVERY component necessary for him to do business."

You ignore some important fundamentals.

First, the employer is risking little if anything (especially in the US) by hiring someone. On the contrary, it is the worker who makes the investment, and a very precious one - time. She/he contributes a part of his/her life, a quantity which is irreplaceable, in order to do a job and be paid after the fact. If the employer isn't satisfied, the employee can be disposed of (at least in the US) as easily as a used tissue.

Second, and related, is that we aren't talking about apples or cars or paint. We are talking about human beings. As long as a system equates people with objects there will be sickness in it.

When I have had employees, I have always thought of it as they were working with me, not for me. I considered their pay a debt, not a cost. It pleased me greatly to think that an enterprise I started and/or managed provided service to the community and a living to the workers. I've practiced 'capitalism' all my life and I detest those that use it to reduce their fellow beings.

Which reminds me of another thing. So many find it understandable that employers work by the market principle of supply and demand and do all they can to make it work in their favor, but the same people find it dishonest or contemptible when workers try to do the same thing as a group.

No. You agree to the wage before you go to work. Nobody can force you to work for anybody. And at the end of the day you will receive what you agreed to work for and you will have risked nothing and invested nothing other than your time. And you won't be poorer than you were when you started out your work day.

But if you do not produce enough to cover your wages plus a necessary profit for your employer, he is out your wages PLUS depreciation, utilities, insurance, inputs, taxes, etc. And he will be poorer than he was at the beginning of the day.

And that is the difference.

 

[Darkwind]

Urban economies cannot absorb them.

What do you suggest?

Oh, please, you're talking way over Politchic's head.

She has no concept of how we disenfranchise urban minorities, shoving them into the welfare system, severely limiting their opportunities, taking away the boots--straps and all.

Years of hunger and abject poverty have a profound effect on a child -- it's not about lazy, it's about having your spirit crushed.

We gutted U.S. manfactoring, destroying local economies. We continue to gut and limit family planning and access to abortions to the poor. What does she think is going to happen?

"Years of hunger and abject poverty have a profound effect on a child -"

Dunce.


"As a group, America's poor are far from being chronically undernourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children and, in most cases, is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than do higher-income children and have average protein intakes 100 percent above recommended levels. Most poor children today are, in fact, supernourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II."
How Poor Are America's Poor? Examining the "Plague" of Poverty in America



Is it true, mind-readers only charge you half price?

Bwwwahahahahhaha....

Some serious English on that backhand.

 

[there4eyeM]

When the life of a person, her/his time, is considered as nothing, values are stood on their head.

 

[JoeB131]

When the life of a person, her/his time, is considered as nothing, values are stood on their head.

Welcome to everything that went wrong with the Republican Party after 1980.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No. You agree to the wage before you go to work. Nobody can force you to work for anybody. And at the end of the day you will receive what you agreed to work for and you will have risked nothing and invested nothing other than your time. And you won't be poorer than you were when you started out your work day.

But if you do not produce enough to cover your wages plus a necessary profit for your employer, he is out your wages PLUS depreciation, utilities, insurance, inputs, taxes, etc. And he will be poorer than he was at the beginning of the day.

And that is the difference.

Again, why should we work that way? YOu seem fine if the economy works on the theory of "I got mine, **** you", which is where the GOP seems to be at right now and wonders why it can't win elections even in bad times.

Again, this is when I stopped being a Republican.. when my Romney-loving boss announced that his bad behavior was totally acceptable because, "I don't have to deal with a union." like that was really an answer.

The problem with a society where the have-nots are totally at mercy of the haves is that eventually, you have a race to the bottom. Until the thing blows up in everyone's faces.

This country worked better when you had strong unions, the rich paid their fair share, and workers had strong rights.