The Latest Socialist Excuse...

[SAYIT]

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

The majority of workers aren't running companies right now because they don't know how to effectively run a company, Einstien....

If you'd ever signed the front of a paycheck, you couldn't possibly have asked such a stupid question.

Elitism ^

What is or can be more elitist than the unshakable belief of those who demand that gov't confiscate the hard earned wealth of others and give it to them and those who support such silliness?

What is or can be more elitist than the unshakable belief of those who demand that gov't confiscate the hard earned wealth of others and give it to them and those who support such silliness?

Silliness on stilts:

"Today the Walton family of Walmart own more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of America."
— Bernie Sanders on Sunday, July 22nd, 2012 in a message on Twitter"

How hard did the Walton heirs work in order to "earn" their fortunes?

So you dredge up an old meme from a defunct (2016) "progressive" (pronounced: communist) think tank that is now part of George Soros (pronounced: communist) anti-US 5th column.

As for income and wealth disparities which do and always have existed, empowering gov't try to equalize results because you are one of life's losers is a recipe for a USSR - Venezuela (and all that failed between them) type economic/humanitarian disaster.

No Comrade G … no matter what the new apparatchiks tell and promise you, it has not worked and it will not work next time either but given the opportunity they will confiscate private American wealth and freedoms and destroy what generations of Americans have built and fought and died to defend.

BTW, the Walton fortune is just a couple of generations old and keeps growing because their core biz provides jobs and saves (and earns) money for many who most need saving.

And just so you have no illusions about that which you promote:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." - A.F.Tytler

 

[georgephillip]

"Sanders attracts the intense support of a small left-wing intellectual vanguard who see American politics in fundamentally different terms than most Democrats do.

"The primary struggle in American politics as they see it is not between liberalism and conservatism, but between socialism and capitalism...

I agree that the primary struggle in American politics is between socialism and capitalism and that Bernie and at least 1/3 of Americans are dim enough to prefer the former. In fact, pretending what they promote is anything but the end of American freedom and prosperity is naive at best.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

It has never worked, and it never will. How can you give workers control over corporations without expropriating trillions in private property?

t has never worked, and it never will. How can you give workers control over corporations without expropriating trillions in private property?

I would begin the same way FDR did when he forced high levels of taxation on wealth and business in order to fund Social Security, unemployment compensation and a massive federal jobs program.

Today, WSDEs often become practical when the founders/owners of a small business retire and opt to sell their enterprise to their employees instead of rival capitalists. Legal services designed to implement such radical economic procedures already exist.

 

[SAYIT]

"Sanders attracts the intense support of a small left-wing intellectual vanguard who see American politics in fundamentally different terms than most Democrats do.

"The primary struggle in American politics as they see it is not between liberalism and conservatism, but between socialism and capitalism...

I agree that the primary struggle in American politics is between socialism and capitalism and that Bernie and at least 1/3 of Americans are dim enough to prefer the former. In fact, pretending what they promote is anything but the end of American freedom and prosperity is naive at best.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

That's not socialism.

Stealing it from the owners? Now that is socialism, which is why we must kill all socialists. They must all fucking die.

Kill a commie fo mommy.



.

That's not socialism.

Stealing it from the owners? Now that is socialism, which is why we must kill all socialists. They must all fucking die.

How do you expect to find political democracy without first implementing economic democracy, the same way your hero did in Germany?

The Soviet Socialists did indeed play a major part in the defeat of the National Socialists but not to end the Holocaust but rather to defeat those who had viciously attacked and occupied much of the USSR.

The inhumane history of socialism is widely known and easily referenced. Why do you pretend it does not exist? Why do you pretend it will work next time, Comrade G?

Opinion | Socialists Don’t Know History

Opinion | Socialism Fails Every Time

 

[dblack]

So, I'm still curious how this "one person, one vote" ethos translates into economics - "one person, one dollar?" I assume that's shorthand for the notion that economic decisions in society should be made "democratically" (by all citizens, with equal input). But again, how does this work?

The nuts and bolts of it get pretty weird, pretty quick, if you think it through. If you take their aim literally, we'd have every person in the country voting on every economic decision in society. Even with computers and the internet, that's not viable. We'd all be spending all day voting on shit other people are doing with virtual no ability to track all the details and information necessary to make a wise decision.

So, surely, they're imagining some kind delegation, where people are appointed to make decisions on behalf of society. But doesn't that put us right back in the same boat? How are these people chosen? What guarantees they'll act for the benefit of all of society, and not just their favored factions?

 

[SAYIT]

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

If the only property rights you and I enjoy are those sanctioned by government, then those rights should be determined on the basis of one vote per citizen and not one vote per (corporate) dollar. When political pressure from below forced FDR to impose high taxes on wealth and business...

FDR imposed no federal wealth taxes and the states that have imposed them later repealed them and for good reason:

Wealth tax - Wikipedia

Wealth tax - Wikipedia

 

[georgephillip]

"Sanders attracts the intense support of a small left-wing intellectual vanguard who see American politics in fundamentally different terms than most Democrats do.

"The primary struggle in American politics as they see it is not between liberalism and conservatism, but between socialism and capitalism...

I agree that the primary struggle in American politics is between socialism and capitalism and that Bernie and at least 1/3 of Americans are dim enough to prefer the former. In fact, pretending what they promote is anything but the end of American freedom and prosperity is naive at best.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

American biz is not run by the richest one percent of shareholders, Comrade George, and if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao you will end up in Venezuela.

American biz is not run by the richest one percent of shareholders, Comrade George, and if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao you will end up in Venezuela.

American capitalists like the Koch brothers acting through their useful political idiots inflict economic sanctions on private banks in Venezuela to crash the economy and you blame "socialism"?

How do you have a socialist economy without nationalizing the banks?

Koch Brothers Growing Control Extends to 16 Federal Departments

 

[georgephillip]

If rich individuals and corporations control the government and Federal Reserve, does not the ultimate control of the economy reside with private capitalists?

Well, I think ultimate control of the economy should reside with private capitalists, so that's a wash - but not through the Fed or via control of the government. Government should have no part to play. That's the problem now.

Well, I think ultimate control of the economy should reside with private capitalists, so that's a wash - but not through the Fed or via control of the government. Government should have no part to play. That's the problem now

Do you believe property rights come from god or government?

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

If the only property rights you and I enjoy are those sanctioned by government, then those rights should be determined on the basis of one vote per citizen and not one vote per (corporate) dollar. When political pressure from below forced FDR to impose high taxes on wealth and business to fund mass relief from the capitalist Great Depression, we saw an example of government enforcing rules regarding property that enhanced the lives on millions of productive Americans at the expense of the economic parasites of the time. Another redistribution is long overdue.

Still not seeing the 'why'. But let's talk about your economy of "one vote per citizen and not one vote per dollar". You seem to be saying that everyone should have exactly the same amount of money to spend. But once they spend it, their "vote" is transferred to the seller. What then? Do we have to give all the money back at the end of the day? How do you prevent people from delegating their "votes" (dollars) to another? And if they can't do that, how does an economy work at all?

Still not seeing the 'why'. But let's talk about your economy of "one vote per citizen and not one vote per dollar". You seem to be saying that everyone should have exactly the same amount of money to spend

Actually, what I'm trying to say is every citizen's political influence should be independent of the number of dollars she has in the bank.

Perhaps Economic Democracy is a more useful concept?

Economic democracy - Wikipedia

"Economic democracy is a socioeconomic philosophy that proposes to shift decision-making power from corporate managers and corporate shareholders to a larger group of public stakeholders that includes workers, customers, suppliers, neighbours and the broader public."

 

[SmokeALib]

 

[SAYIT]

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

The majority of workers aren't running companies right now because they don't know how to effectively run a company, Einstien....

If you'd ever signed the front of a paycheck, you couldn't possibly have asked such a stupid question.

Elitism ^

What is or can be more elitist than the unshakable belief of those who demand that gov't confiscate the hard earned wealth of others and give it to them and those who support such silliness?

What is or can be more elitist than the unshakable belief of those who demand that gov't confiscate the hard earned wealth of others and give it to them and those who support such silliness?

Silliness on stilts:

"Today the Walton family of Walmart own more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of America."
— Bernie Sanders on Sunday, July 22nd, 2012 in a message on Twitter"

How hard did the Walton heirs work in order to "earn" their fortunes?

Bernie Sanders says Walmart heirs own more wealth than bottom 40 percent of Americans

Not in any way defending WalMart...but how does the “hourly” rate of retirement get calculated? How many hours a week is someone retired?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Not that Walmart needs anyone's defense - they have won playing by the rules we have established - there is no shame in doing so. I find the company to be a favorite whipping-boy of those who insist we reshuffle the deck because they are petulant, self-entitled losers, and to be as good a place as any to make my anti-socialism argument.

I believe our govt's job is to provide as level a playfield as possible - enabling as many Americans as possible to pursue our dreams as we see fit - and then get out of our way and let us do what we do best … be productive and prosper.

 

[dblack]

Perhaps Economic Democracy is a more useful concept?

Economic democracy - Wikipedia

"Economic democracy is a socioeconomic philosophy that proposes to shift decision-making power from corporate managers and corporate shareholders to a larger group of public stakeholders that includes workers, customers, suppliers, neighbours and the broader public."

Right. That's what I assumed you were talking about. But again, doesn't that just put us back the same boat? How do we choose this group of "public stakeholders", and how do we ensure they work for the benefit of society?

 

[SAYIT]

If rich individuals and corporations control the government and Federal Reserve, does not the ultimate control of the economy reside with private capitalists?

Well, I think ultimate control of the economy should reside with private capitalists, so that's a wash - but not through the Fed or via control of the government. Government should have no part to play. That's the problem now.

Well, I think ultimate control of the economy should reside with private capitalists, so that's a wash - but not through the Fed or via control of the government. Government should have no part to play. That's the problem now

Do you believe property rights come from god or government?

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

If the only property rights you and I enjoy are those sanctioned by government, then those rights should be determined on the basis of one vote per citizen and not one vote per (corporate) dollar. When political pressure from below forced FDR to impose high taxes on wealth and business to fund mass relief from the capitalist Great Depression, we saw an example of government enforcing rules regarding property that enhanced the lives on millions of productive Americans at the expense of the economic parasites of the time. Another redistribution is long overdue.

Still not seeing the 'why'. But let's talk about your economy of "one vote per citizen and not one vote per dollar". You seem to be saying that everyone should have exactly the same amount of money to spend. But once they spend it, their "vote" is transferred to the seller. What then? Do we have to give all the money back at the end of the day? How do you prevent people from delegating their "votes" (dollars) to another? And if they can't do that, how does an economy work at all?

Does anyone in their right mind believe ceding our individual rights to our already too big, greasy central gov't to be the best way to eliminate income/wealth disparities? Is the end of freedom really useful to us and our progeny? Yeah, capitalism truly is the worst economic model … until one compares it to all the others.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." - A.F.Tytler

 

[bripat9643]

"Sanders attracts the intense support of a small left-wing intellectual vanguard who see American politics in fundamentally different terms than most Democrats do.

"The primary struggle in American politics as they see it is not between liberalism and conservatism, but between socialism and capitalism...

I agree that the primary struggle in American politics is between socialism and capitalism and that Bernie and at least 1/3 of Americans are dim enough to prefer the former. In fact, pretending what they promote is anything but the end of American freedom and prosperity is naive at best.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

That's not socialism.

Stealing it from the owners? Now that is socialism, which is why we must kill all socialists. They must all fucking die.

Kill a commie fo mommy.



.

That's not socialism.

Stealing it from the owners? Now that is socialism, which is why we must kill all socialists. They must all fucking die.

How do you expect to find political democracy without first implementing economic democracy, the same way your hero did in Germany?

The communists had their own Holocaust, moron.

 

[SAYIT]

t has never worked, and it never will. How can you give workers control over corporations without expropriating trillions in private property?

I would begin the same way FDR did when he forced high levels of taxation on wealth and business...

FDR did not impose wealth taxes.

 

[SAYIT]

"Sanders attracts the intense support of a small left-wing intellectual vanguard who see American politics in fundamentally different terms than most Democrats do.

"The primary struggle in American politics as they see it is not between liberalism and conservatism, but between socialism and capitalism...

I agree that the primary struggle in American politics is between socialism and capitalism and that Bernie and at least 1/3 of Americans are dim enough to prefer the former. In fact, pretending what they promote is anything but the end of American freedom and prosperity is naive at best.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

American biz is not run by the richest one percent of shareholders, Comrade George, and if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao you will end up in Venezuela.

American biz is not run by the richest one percent of shareholders, Comrade George, and if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao you will end up in Venezuela.

American capitalists like the Koch brothers acting through their useful political idiots inflict economic sanctions on private banks in Venezuela to crash the economy and you blame "socialism"?...

Venezuela's President-for-Life Maduro not only admitted at a PSUV Party conference (yeah, socialism requires the elimination of other political parties) that their socialist economic model is a failure, he blamed himself and the party. Only desperate children need to blame capitalists. You spew common socialist LIES in defense of what has proven to be a guaranteed socio-economic recipe for disaster.

Socialist Venezuela Falling Apart As President Maduro Shockingly Blames Party
News flash! Socialism in poor, closed-door economies is a failure. So says Nicolas Maduro, who happens to be the president of one: the biggest failed state in the Americas, poor ol’ Venezuela.

In a surprising twist on Monday, Maduro went against the Socialists United (PSUV) playbook of blaming Washington (especially the CIA) for Venezuela’s troubles.

“The production models we’ve tried so far have failed, and the responsibility is ours—mine and yours,” Maduro told the PSUV party congress.

 

[SAYIT]

View attachment 265151

There is nothing more ironic and infuriating than getting stuck in a traffic jam that is the direct result of some cop screwing things up.

 

[beautress]

Trump is the poster child for why capitalism needs to be modulated

Trump is the poster child for government "modulating" capitalism - and a shining example of why it's such a bad idea.

Trump's the second generation poster child for socialism for the rich and rugged, "free" market individualism for the poor.

"Trump's the second generation poster child for socialism for the rich and rugged, "free" market individualism for the poor."​

2019 - 1789 = 230
19(approx. 1 generation)​

230 ~
19 = over twelve generations the USA has enabled citizens to be a force of good through capitalism.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

the United States has been an economic and innovation marvel and our national wealth has been good for our citizens and enabled us to be a force of good throughout the world

Are you pretty much always in troll mode?

Yes, he's the most prolific pot-stirrer on this site and it cracks me up daily to see people going ape shit in response to his posts. Posters from every part of the political spectrum have accused him of being a wingnut of the opposite side. LOL. But his true positions are easy enough to see.

 

[georgephillip]

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

If the only property rights you and I enjoy are those sanctioned by government, then those rights should be determined on the basis of one vote per citizen and not one vote per (corporate) dollar. When political pressure from below forced FDR to impose high taxes on wealth and business...

FDR imposed no federal wealth taxes and the states that have imposed them later repealed them and for good reason:

Wealth tax - Wikipedia

Wealth tax - Wikipedia

FDR imposed no federal wealth taxes and the states that have imposed them later repealed them and for good reason:

Revenue Act of 1935 - Wikipedia

"The Revenue Act of 1935, 49 Stat. 1014 (Aug. 30, 1935), raised federal income tax on higher income levels, by introducing the "Wealth Tax". It was a progressive tax that took up to 75 percent of the highest incomes.[1]

"It was signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

"The 1935 Act also was popularly known at the time as the "Soak the Rich" tax.[2] To solve the problem of tax evasion through loopholes, the Revenue Act of 1937 revised tax laws and regulations to increase the efficacy of the tax.[1]"

Stock Photo - ROOSEVELT CARTOON, 1934. /nPresident Franklin D. Roosevelt displaying some interest in adopting the 'Share the Wealth' (i.e. soak the rich) programs of Senator Huey P. Long

 

[Missouri_Mike]

"Sanders attracts the intense support of a small left-wing intellectual vanguard who see American politics in fundamentally different terms than most Democrats do.

"The primary struggle in American politics as they see it is not between liberalism and conservatism, but between socialism and capitalism...

I agree that the primary struggle in American politics is between socialism and capitalism and that Bernie and at least 1/3 of Americans are dim enough to prefer the former. In fact, pretending what they promote is anything but the end of American freedom and prosperity is naive at best.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

What problem do you have with businesses being run by a majority of workers instead of the richest one percent of shareholders/stakeholders?

It has never worked, and it never will. How can you give workers control over corporations without expropriating trillions in private property?

t has never worked, and it never will. How can you give workers control over corporations without expropriating trillions in private property?

I would begin the same way FDR did when he forced high levels of taxation on wealth and business in order to fund Social Security, unemployment compensation and a massive federal jobs program.

Today, WSDEs often become practical when the founders/owners of a small business retire and opt to sell their enterprise to their employees instead of rival capitalists. Legal services designed to implement such radical economic procedures already exist.

You’re a brainwashed idiot. You actually think you’re going to tax your way to 10 million new jobs?

 

[bripat9643]

Property rights are a construct of government. What is your point? Are you suggesting that because government enforces rules regarding property that they should also have broad powers to dictate our economic decisions? Why?

If the only property rights you and I enjoy are those sanctioned by government, then those rights should be determined on the basis of one vote per citizen and not one vote per (corporate) dollar. When political pressure from below forced FDR to impose high taxes on wealth and business...

FDR imposed no federal wealth taxes and the states that have imposed them later repealed them and for good reason:

Wealth tax - Wikipedia

Wealth tax - Wikipedia

FDR imposed no federal wealth taxes and the states that have imposed them later repealed them and for good reason:

Revenue Act of 1935 - Wikipedia

"The Revenue Act of 1935, 49 Stat. 1014 (Aug. 30, 1935), raised federal income tax on higher income levels, by introducing the "Wealth Tax". It was a progressive tax that took up to 75 percent of the highest incomes.[1]

"It was signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

"The 1935 Act also was popularly known at the time as the "Soak the Rich" tax.[2] To solve the problem of tax evasion through loopholes, the Revenue Act of 1937 revised tax laws and regulations to increase the efficacy of the tax.[1]"

Stock Photo - ROOSEVELT CARTOON, 1934. /nPresident Franklin D. Roosevelt displaying some interest in adopting the 'Share the Wealth' (i.e. soak the rich) programs of Senator Huey P. Long

The depression lasted for another 7 years after that.

Did you learn anything?