The KKK And The Democratic Party

[Hobbit]

The KKK politicians never switched sides. There were always at least a few on both sides, but Democrats still hold the majority of them, even today. Ever hear of "Sheets" Byrd? Now, they claim to be for minorities, but where the Republicans want to give everyone equal footing, the Democrats still think blacks are incapable of competing without a government handout. Now, racism is the belief that one race is superior to the other. If the Republicans tell blacks that they can make it just like everybody else, but the Democrats say they can't make it unless the government helps them, then who's the racist?

 

[Gunny]

Understood. It's kinda like the fact that your desire to hear my opinions has hardly an impact on my willingness to share them.

Huh? I'm not sure how there is any dependance between these ideas or thoughts as you suggest.

Yes, the KKK was a largely Southern Democrat (dixiecrat) phenomena. However, the Democratic Party rejected those ideals over time and those people (and ideals) migrated to the Republican party. And have primarily resided there for the last 100 years or so. In the process of remembering what the Dems were like in the 1800's (and being critical of it), you seem to be willingly ignoring what the Reps are and have been like in the recent 100 years. Neither group (pre 1900 Dems and post 1900 Reps) have much to brag about. Only one of the two are in the wrong now and in recent history.

The seek to convince the world of that statement. It's not been remotely proven factual as you state.

Really? Compare the number of blacks and Hispanics with prominent roles in the Republican party/current administration with the same in the Dem Party. Pretty damned self-evident.

I ignore nothing. Be they Republicans or Democrats, whites discriminated against blacks. Simple fact. That's just the way it was, and has nothing to do with the original post nor my response to it.

Racism knows no bounds, and for you to imply that all the Southern racists went to the Republicans is just bullshit. Claiming past history is evidence of this is equally as much bullshit.

The fact is, the "noble" Republicans and Northerners who were all about freeing the salves wanted no part of them being in the North.

I would like to think that most of us have advanced beyond those days and that particular mindset and accept individuals for who and what they are based on deed, not the color fo their skin unless or until they prove they fit the stereotype. Then too, they are what they are.

Racism is kept alive by people who use it as an excuse to further their political agendas. I think racism itself is stupid. I also think refusing to open your eyes and see the truth rather than spouting off a poltical agenda is equally as stupid.

When people quit using race as an excuse to get a freebie, or as an accusation against a poltical opponent, THEN maybe racism will become a non-issue in this Nation.

As long as people like you exist to point a finger at the other side when all you know is what you've been brainwashed with, maybe we'll get somewhere.

 

[jAZ]

Really? Compare the number of blacks and Hispanics with prominent roles in the Republican party/current administration with the same in the Dem Party. Pretty damned self-evident.

Acutally it means little more (substantively) than what I mentioned before. They are hoping to change the face of the GOP. The people they put in office are well qualified, but that doesn't make the overall dynamics and views of the non-politicos any different.

And none of this is to say that the GOP is entirely racist. It's far less today than in any time in the past. They deserve credit for that. There is an honest effort to change.

But to pretend that the southern racists are anything but a heavy, heavy lean to the GOP is dishonest.

Racism knows no bounds, and for you to imply that all the Southern racists went to the Republicans is just bullshit. Claiming past history is evidence of this is equally as much bullshit.

It doesn't know bounds. I didn't say it did. I also didn't say that the Dems don't have racists. Nor did I say the north or west doesn't have racists. I also didn't say the black race doesn't have racists. There are no bounds. But that doesn't change the patterns that exist within those bounds.

The south has (and still does) have a long and very ugly racial history. And there are few southern racists voting for Dems. Modern ractist types have typically given up their labor loyalties in favor of their Christian loyalties. They have moved to the GOP and away from the "n*gger lovin hippies" in the Dem Party.

Now once again, this isn't to say that all or even most southerners feel this way. It's also not to say that all or even most Republicans feel this way. It's also not to say that all racists are Republicans. But there is a pattern that is undeniable.

And I applaud the efforts of the GOP to change this fact. Keep it up, cause there's a ways to go and a bunch of hearts and minds to sway.

I would like to think that most of us have advanced beyond those days and that particular mindset and accept individuals for who and what they are based on deed, not the color fo their skin unless or until they prove they fit the stereotype. Then too, they are what they are.

I agree 100%.

Racism is kept alive by people who use it as an excuse to further their political agendas. I think racism itself is stupid. I also think refusing to open your eyes and see the truth rather than spouting off a poltical agenda is equally as stupid.

I think racism is kept alive by racists who fear change, hate differences, seek to keep what they have, fear losing it to the other guy and are wiling to see things in simplistic terms rather than looking into the details. That description applies to anyone that it fits regardless of party.

When people quit using race as an excuse to get a freebie, or as an accusation against a poltical opponent, THEN maybe racism will become a non-issue in this Nation.

As I've said before, that's going to be necessary eventually. I don't disagree. But you are putting the cart before the horse, IMO. There have to be policies that help those who are excluded by network effects. As I said earlier, I'm willing to reconsider my views on the need for those to be racially based programs. But in the end, the programs will be heavily minority based.

As long as people like you exist to point a finger at the other side when all you know is what you've been brainwashed with, maybe we'll get somewhere.

Nicely ended. Don't consider my words above (and before), just hurl the party-line insults and hope they stick. Punctuation for effect. I thought we were finding some middle ground there before you started flailing around. Ah well, too bad.

 

[jAZ]

The KKK politicians never switched sides. There were always at least a few on both sides, but Democrats still hold the majority of them, even today. Ever hear of "Sheets" Byrd? Now, they claim to be for minorities, but where the Republicans want to give everyone equal footing, the Democrats still think blacks are incapable of competing without a government handout. Now, racism is the belief that one race is superior to the other. If the Republicans tell blacks that they can make it just like everybody else, but the Democrats say they can't make it unless the government helps them, then who's the racist?

Look, if I'm man enough to look at the civil war and admit that the racist voter was heavy Dem prior to say 1900... I expect you and others to be man enough to admit that the racist voter was heavy GOP after the civil rights era.

It's not even really debatable.

The Dems lost the racist vote when Kennedy supported the blacks.

It was all over at that time.

 

[no1tovote4]

Look, if I'm man enough to look at the civil war and admit that the racist voter was heavy Dem prior to say 1900... I expect you and others to be man enough to admit that the racist voter was heavy GOP after the civil rights era.

It's not even really debatable.

The Dems lost the racist vote when Kennedy supported the blacks.

It was all over at that time.

BAh! It was LBJ who promoted the Civil Rights Act. Many believed that Kennedy wasn't doing enough just before he died. LBJ gave new life to that Republican Bill.

 

[jAZ]

BAh! It was LBJ who promoted the Civil Rights Act. Many believed that Kennedy wasn't doing enough just before he died. LBJ gave new life to that Republican Bill.

Kennedy gets credit for starting (or crystalizing) the change. He's the reason why blacks switched for the party of lincoln to the party of the dixiecrats. He was the first to embrace equal rights.

I'm trying to remember the incident, but there was one incident that kinda started the whole swing to the Dems. I *think* it was a kidnapping/lynching of a girl in the south, that Kennedy spoke out on. I'm can't remember and can't find what I'm looking for on google.

Well, I've got to go to bed.

Have a good night. I'll check in tomorrow.

 

[Avatar4321]

You were doing well for a minute there. Then went straight for the Rush Limbaugh talking point. Too bad.

Have you ever actually listened to Rush?

 

[Merlin]

Just to throw something out there....for fun....

The Ku Klux Klan was formed as a social club by a group of Confederate Army veterans in Pulaski, Tennessee in the winter of 1865-66. The group adopted the name Ku Klux Klan from the Greek word "kyklos," meaning circle, and the English word clan. In the summer of 1867, the Klan became the "Invisible Empire of the South" at a convention in Nashville, Tennessee attended by delegates from former Confederate states. The group was presided over General Nathan Bedford Forrest, who is believed to have been the first Grand Wizard -- the title for the head of the organization. Lesser officers were given such names as Grand Dragon, Grand Titan, and Grand Cyclops. Dressed in robes and sheets, intended to prevent identification by the occupying federal troops (and supposedly designed to frighten blacks), the Klan quickly became a terrorist organization in service of the Democratic Party and white supremacy. Between 1869 and 1871 its goal was to destroy Congressional Reconstruction by murdering blacks -- and some whites -- who were either active in Republican politics or educating black children.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_org_kkk.html

This is about the gazillionth different way that I've heard of how the kkk got started. Any time a story of how they got started fits someone's agenda, it goes on the web or circlelates some kind of way. The only kkk I am personally familiar with was in the 40s and 50s, and they weren't after blacks. If there was a trouble maker in someone's neighborhood, (child abuser, wife beater, etc.) they were the ones that would take care of them. They would tie them up and take a horse whip to them. Then let them go. I'm not sure what the second offense punishment was.

 

[Hobbit]

All that I know for sure about the KKK is that it wasn't originally a racist organization. It was formed as a shadow political power in the wake of the ruling that ex-confederates couldn't vote.

 

[jAZ]

Have you ever actually listened to Rush?

Certainly, but I don't make a habit of it.

 

[Gunny]

Acutally it means little more (substantively) than what I mentioned before. They are hoping to change the face of the GOP. The people they put in office are well qualified, but that doesn't make the overall dynamics and views of the non-politicos any different.

And none of this is to say that the GOP is entirely racist. It's far less today than in any time in the past. They deserve credit for that. There is an honest effort to change.

What it means substantively is that more minorites hold higher positions in the government as Republicans than they do as Democrats. Your attempt to spin it otherwise aside.

But to pretend that the southern racists are anything but a heavy, heavy lean to the GOP is dishonest.

Attempting to label the GOP racist and/or supporters of racism because some racists may be among them is what is dishonest.

It doesn't know bounds. I didn't say it did. I also didn't say that the Dems don't have racists. Nor did I say the north or west doesn't have racists. I also didn't say the black race doesn't have racists. There are no bounds. But that doesn't change the patterns that exist within those bounds.

The south has (and still does) have a long and very ugly racial history. And there are few southern racists voting for Dems. Modern ractist types have typically given up their labor loyalties in favor of their Christian loyalties. They have moved to the GOP and away from the "n*gger lovin hippies" in the Dem Party.

Conducted a poll among Southern racists, have you? Sounds more like speculation on your part. I can't imagine why anyone would distance themselves from left-wingnut hippies.

Now once again, this isn't to say that all or even most southerners feel this way. It's also not to say that all or even most Republicans feel this way. It's also not to say that all racists are Republicans. But there is a pattern that is undeniable.

You sound like John Kerry. Disclaimers up the ass, followed by the same accusation based on ________? Your speculation?

And I applaud the efforts of the GOP to change this fact. Keep it up, cause there's a ways to go and a bunch of hearts and minds to sway.

I agree 100%.

I think racism is kept alive by racists who fear change, hate differences, seek to keep what they have, fear losing it to the other guy and are wiling to see things in simplistic terms rather than looking into the details. That description applies to anyone that it fits regardless of party.

As I've said before, that's going to be necessary eventually. I don't disagree. But you are putting the cart before the horse, IMO. There have to be policies that help those who are excluded by network effects. As I said earlier, I'm willing to reconsider my views on the need for those to be racially based programs. But in the end, the programs will be heavily minority based.

Wrong. You cannot legislate what people think and feel. Racial discrimination is against the law. That is the best you will EVER be able to do. Wasting taxpayer money on some socialist indoctrination on what people are supposed to think according to you will fail.

Nicely ended. Don't consider my words above (and before), just hurl the party-line insults and hope they stick. Punctuation for effect. I thought we were finding some middle ground there before you started flailing around. Ah well, too bad.

Middle ground, huh? You mean like your attempt to pin racism on the GOP? When you speak the party line, you get the party line insults. Simple math.

 

[Gunny]

Kennedy gets credit for starting (or crystalizing) the change. He's the reason why blacks switched for the party of lincoln to the party of the dixiecrats. He was the first to embrace equal rights.

I'm trying to remember the incident, but there was one incident that kinda started the whole swing to the Dems. I *think* it was a kidnapping/lynching of a girl in the south, that Kennedy spoke out on. I'm can't remember and can't find what I'm looking for on google.

Well, I've got to go to bed.

Have a good night. I'll check in tomorrow.

You would be incorrect. The black vote went Dem because of Woodrow Wilson and his Jim Crow administration.

And No1 is correct. LBJ is far more responsible for the success of 60's civil rights than Kennedy was, or even probably would have been. LBJ is the one who basically called "Bullshit" and intervened in the South with the FBI.

 

[Bonnie]

And Liberal Racists see the "lazy, angry, racist, unmotivated, selfish, uneducated and criminal" see an opportunity and entrap them with 'kindness'.

You can only get anywhere if you follow their special recipe for 'success'. "We know you cannot pass school because of the school you go to, we therefore will make them take you," is what they say out loud. "We will ensure that from now on everybody will focus on race for your entire life basing laws on race, giving benefits based on race, continuing to draw attention to the fact that you can't make it without out our help specifically thus ensuring both you will be kept down in the minds of the population as we condescend you and your entire 'race' and that you will continue vote for only us!" is their thoughts. This mantra is hidden under the relatively benevolent-sounding term of "affirmative action".

It is just as racist, only directly so, as they focus on those differences to judge just how much help you really 'need' from them. The more help they give the more they are insured you will be be observed as an Affirmative Actionee who could never have made it without their 'special help' and that really ends up being the very chains to keep you down. A disgusting overt racist program of derogatory internal dialogue that leads one to a 'they can never make it on their own' attitude that is far more insidious than a 'racist republican' that just wants to end Affirmative Action and begin to work towards that Great Dream that MLK spoke of where people are judged "...for the content of their character, and not the color of their skin." Instead this has been replaced by: "Where you will always be judged as wanting based on the color of your skin and never for your ability to succeed."

I have a dream, indeed....

Bravo Doug!!!

 

[Bonnie]

But what we neglect to tell people is that later the Republican Party and Democratic Party would switch places on platforms and ideals.

Very true, the party of empowerment to all races (the Republicans) have been slapped with the outright wrong stain of indifference for the last few decades because of that. And the liberals who only want to re -enslave blacks by making them dependant upon their party the Democrats have been hailed by very ignorant people as the caring inclusive party.

 

[William Joyce]

Black people can be lazy, angry, racist, unmotivated, selfish, uneducated and criminal.

White people can be lazy, angry, racist, unmotivated, selfish, uneducated and criminal.

But black people are so in much higher percentages.

And when whites are lazy, angry, racist, unmotivated, selfish, uneducated and criminal... that's OUR business, and we have ways of dealing with our own kind. We have no ways of dealing with other kind, because we are not allowed, and God didn't mean for it to happen, anyway.

The argument that whites and blacks behave identically, in proportion, simply doesn't wash. It's like saying both men and women are this or that. Sure. But at the end of the day, they're both MEN and WOMEN, and the difference MATTERS. A lot.

Liberals are constantly trying to make it out that differences don't matter.

Yet they do.

And how.

And the price we pay for ignoring that is STEEP.

And leads to death, destruction and misery.

It's why I turned to conservatism.

 

[jAZ]

And when whites are lazy, angry, racist, unmotivated, selfish, uneducated and criminal... that's OUR business, and we have ways of dealing with our own kind. We have no ways of dealing with other kind, because we are not allowed, and God didn't mean for it to happen, anyway.

I'm speechless.

 

[Kagom]

Very true, the party of empowerment to all races (the Republicans) have been slapped with the outright wrong stain of indifference for the last few decades because of that. And the liberals who only want to re -enslave blacks by making them dependant upon their party the Democrats have been hailed by very ignorant people as the caring inclusive party.

I'm not a liberal or a democrat. I'm only calling out what I've seen and read in history.

 

[Kagom]

I'm speechless.

You and me both o.o

 

[jAZ]

Middle ground, huh? You mean like your attempt to pin racism on the GOP?

Your attept to spin my comments into something you have a chance to attack is rather sad, but not at all uncommon around here. I'm spending an awefully lot of energy calling "BS" on folks here who love to play that game.

Can you unspin yourself for a second to look past your party-line venom and understand the concepts of sets, sub-sets and the venn diagram?

Saying that racists shifted to the GOP DOES NOT mean that the GOP is entierly (or even substantially) racist.

 

[William Joyce]

I'm speechless.

Listen, it happens. I was struck dumb by racially realistic assertions several times myself, years ago. Figuring myself to be an open-minded, intelligent guy, I just thought, "well see about this."

But what happened was, I couldn't come up with a comeback. Logically, rhetorically, factually, it just wasn't happening. And I was PISSED. I thought, "But that's racist. And surely it can't be RIGHT. Can it?"

I mean, no intelligent, enlighted, educated person believes that races are different. Right?

Oh,crap. WRONG. In fact, some of the most intelligent, most enlighted and most educated people believe exactly that.

But to dip in further takes an intellectual commitment of fairly serious order. It's not for everyone. If you lack for intellectual courage, you're probably not going to hang in for it. Better you stick with the Rush Limbaugh show or the Bill O'Reilly program, where you'll never hear anything that rocks you to your core and challenges foundational beliefs. Just silly corporate pablum.