The Great Liberal Expriment?

[Steelplate]

You know... I keep seeing that tagline that "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for supper".

But in truth... Democracy is two sheep and a wolf deciding what's for supper. All with equal voting power.

The wolf wants to eat the sheep... but because all things are equal... the wolf needs to either find a different source of protein or learn to like grazing.

Capitalism is like 20 sheep and a wolf deciding what's for dinner and the wolf is the only vote that counts... because he's a badass.

No Capitalism is more like 20 German Shepards and a Wolf deciding who gets how much for dinner...the wolf will get his way until he pisses the shepard's off...then he's for dinner.

I don't think so... maybe Golden Retrievers... but not Shepards. they are too wolf-like. Goldens are probably more accurate. Dogs are one of my hobbies.

EDIT: what I am saying is that Shepherds wouldn't put up with the bullshit that the wolf demands nearly as long as a Golden Retriever would.

 

[Mr.Nick]

It only happens all the ******* time...

Progressive liberals are only the nuts that circumvent direct democracy and ban individual liberties.

At least Prop 8 was a direct democratic measure. It wasn't like politicians banned civil unions/marriage.... NO the people did.

If gays didn't like it then they should move to a state where civil unions are welcome..

Also, I didn't vote on anything because I not a California resident.

So by your estimate we should have voted on slavery, voted on womens suffrage, voted on civil rights

None would have passed if put to a vote. A persons legal rights are the responsibility of the courts. Who the **** are you to tell others they cannot get married?

Many years ago I remember that during his confirmation hearings Judge Bork said something to the effect of:

"It's the judiciary's responsibilty to prevent democracy from becoming a dictatorship of the majority."

i.e. When 2 wolves and a lamb vote on what's on for dinner it's the judiciary's responsibilty to serve 'em soy beans whether they like it or not.

Thats another problem.... People believe they have a voice but they really don't... In this republic legislators write laws, they get challenged and then some ******* judge rules on them and if a political party has the audacity to push the law further it goes to the supreme court and our fate is decided by 9 Justices...

 

[whitehall]

I've heard the argument that democrat segregationists and racists were actually republicans in disguise but history indicates that they were democrats who voted for democrats who voted for segregation and other democrat issues. The liberal media which turned on a dime from racist to plantation manager is responsible for the democrat party's fake history.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Mr. Nick...

Did you EVER think that perhaps those former Democratic KKK people didn't like the changes that took place in the Democratic Party and chose to switch sides? I am not saying that Republicans were that way.... but they are now.

Likewise... many of the "Old Republican" Party have switched sides because of the "New Right". I am one of them. I was a Republican from the time I turned 18(1983).. till 2006. Because Right wing politics have gotten so fanatical and Radical that I couldn't stand it anymore. Let's fight a war on TWO Fronts... and give everyone(mostly the Rich) a tax break... wonderful thinking Mr. President.

Is Liberalism any better? Remains to be seen... but from my viewpoint, the current form of Liberalism is very much what Republicans USED to stand for. The whole paradigm has moved right. So what now is being called COMMUNISTIC... used to be very much Centrist.

In what ******* universe are republicans racist???

Supply evidence of their racism....

Why because they're opposed to motherfucking welfare???

You ever think for a second that its the democrats that are STILL racists?? you're the one pimping the blacks and giving them free welfare and all that shit and its the republicans who are telling them to stand on their feet..

You ever think for a second that the leftist party is nothing more than a failure?? you ever think you're cannon fodder, that you're a product to keep the leftist party alive??

I suppose its kinda easy to see if you're on the outside looking in, however I suppose its difficult if you're on the inside looking out.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Sorry to tell you that marriage is NOT a civil liberty....

Wrong, again:

These statutes also deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942).

Loving v. Virginia

The best the gay crowed can point to is the equal protection clause in the Fourteenth Amendment which is so ******* vague it could justify me stealing your car...

It hasn’t been ‘vague’ for quite some time:

The case does involve two adults who, with full and mutual consent from each other, engaged in sexual practices common to a homosexual lifestyle. The petitioners are entitled to respect for their private lives. The State cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime. Their right to liberty under the Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in their conduct without intervention of the government. “It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter.” Casey, supra, at 847. The Texas statute furthers no legitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into the personal and private life of the individual.

Lawrence v Texas

So the ‘best’ the ‘gay crowd’ can point to is the Constitution of the United States.

 

[Steelplate]

In what ******* universe are republicans racist???

Supply evidence of their racism....

Why because they're opposed to motherfucking welfare???

You ever think for a second that its the democrats that are STILL racists?? you're the one pimping the blacks and giving them free welfare and all that shit and its the republicans who are telling them to stand on their feet..

You ever think for a second that the leftist party is nothing more than a failure?? you ever think you're cannon fodder, that you're a product to keep the leftist party alive??

I suppose its kinda easy to see if you're on the outside looking in, however I suppose its difficult if you're on the inside looking out.

Yeah... because they are opposed to welfare. You don't seem to have a problem with fighting wars on two front and giving tax breaks.. nor do you mind deficit spending as long as the wealthy don't have to sacrifice in the same vein as the poor and middle class.

Let's **** with people who don't have a pot to piss in and give even MORE breaks to those with mansions and ferrari's and vacation homes in the Caribbean. Not to mention a nice little nest egg holed up in the Caymen Islands that will never get taxed.

You are one of the ignorant masses that actually still believe in trickle down economics as the standard. You believe that any job is a good job. You believe that people who aren't all that smart deserve to live on the fringe of society, while the intelligent who choose to dedicate their lives to material wealth deserve it all.

You see, I don't believe that. Yes... there are some that have completely given up, and an even smaller number of people that never had any intention of showing up. But you see them as the norm... I see them as an anomaly. We USED to have good paying jobs for anyone that had the gumption to work. Now we have jobs that were at one time relegated to school kids looking for gas money and "fun times" being transferred to people that need to raise a god damned family on... all because of the "Profit motive" that you speak so highly of.

What has been totally distorted and summarily dismissed from the CORPORATISTS that rule our country(and a huge chunk of the WORLD) is that people matter.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Sorry to tell you that marriage is NOT a civil liberty....

Wrong, again:

These statutes also deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942).

Loving v. Virginia

The best the gay crowed can point to is the equal protection clause in the Fourteenth Amendment which is so ******* vague it could justify me stealing your car...

It hasn’t been ‘vague’ for quite some time:

The case does involve two adults who, with full and mutual consent from each other, engaged in sexual practices common to a homosexual lifestyle. The petitioners are entitled to respect for their private lives. The State cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime. Their right to liberty under the Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in their conduct without intervention of the government. “It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter.” Casey, supra, at 847. The Texas statute furthers no legitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into the personal and private life of the individual.

Lawrence v Texas

So the ‘best’ the ‘gay crowd’ can point to is the Constitution of the United States.

So show me where gay marriage is a "civil right."

Marriage is NOTHING more than contract....

 

[Mr.Nick]

In what ******* universe are republicans racist???

Supply evidence of their racism....

Why because they're opposed to motherfucking welfare???

You ever think for a second that its the democrats that are STILL racists?? you're the one pimping the blacks and giving them free welfare and all that shit and its the republicans who are telling them to stand on their feet..

You ever think for a second that the leftist party is nothing more than a failure?? you ever think you're cannon fodder, that you're a product to keep the leftist party alive??

I suppose its kinda easy to see if you're on the outside looking in, however I suppose its difficult if you're on the inside looking out.

Yeah... because they are opposed to welfare. You don't seem to have a problem with fighting wars on two front and giving tax breaks.. nor do you mind deficit spending as long as the wealthy don't have to sacrifice in the same vein as the poor and middle class.

Let's **** with people who don't have a pot to piss in and give even MORE breaks to those with mansions and ferrari's and vacation homes in the Caribbean. Not to mention a nice little nest egg holed up in the Caymen Islands that will never get taxed.

You are one of the ignorant masses that actually still believe in trickle down economics as the standard. You believe that any job is a good job. You believe that people who aren't all that smart deserve to live on the fringe of society, while the intelligent who choose to dedicate their lives to material wealth deserve it all.

You see, I don't believe that. Yes... there are some that have completely given up, and an even smaller number of people that never had any intention of showing up. But you see them as the norm... I see them as an anomaly. We USED to have good paying jobs for anyone that had the gumption to work. Now we have jobs that were at one time relegated to school kids looking for gas money and "fun times" being transferred to people that need to raise a god damned family on... all because of the "Profit motive" that you speak so highly of.

What has been totally distorted and summarily dismissed from the CORPORATISTS that rule our country(and a huge chunk of the WORLD) is that people matter.

Yes, I don't give a **** about people that could have been something but live on welfare because they're lazy...

Yes, I'm not a socialist.... People should be rewarded for being successful...

Yes, I would give tax cuts to those that do well in life because those who DONT and live on the the government coin deserve absolutely nothing..

My advice to the ******* greedy retards who believe they should get CEO wadges for digging ditches is: do something thats in HIGH DEMAND because anyone can dig a ditch...

I would recommend that YOU learn economics because these concepts would be much simpler if you did.....

No, I don't like war but when a hostile nation gets out of line or has been out of line for 20 ******* years - yes you remove the individual thats behind it.... Your boy Obama knows all about that..

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So show me where gay marriage is a "civil right."

Plaintiffs do not seek recognition of a new right. To characterize plaintiffs’ objective as “the right to same-sex marriage” would suggest that plaintiffs seek something different from what opposite-sex couples across the state enjoy —— namely, marriage. Rather, plaintiffs ask California to recognize their relationships for what they are: marriages.

https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/09cv2292-ORDER.pdf

Marriage is NOTHING more than contract....

And contract law is written by the states. The 14th Amendment guarantees all states’ citizens have equal access to the laws of their respective states:

Proposition 8 cannot withstand any level of scrutiny under the Equal Protection Clause, as excluding same-sex couples from marriage is simply not rationally related to a legitimate state interest.

Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.

https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/09cv2292-ORDER.pdf

 

[Steelplate]

Yes, I don't give a **** about people that could have been something but live on welfare because they're lazy...

Yes, I'm not a socialist.... People should be rewarded for being successful...

Yes, I would give tax cuts to those that do well in life because those who DONT and live on the the government coin deserve absolutely nothing..

My advice to the ******* greedy retards who believe they should get CEO wadges for digging ditches is: do something thats in HIGH DEMAND because anyone can dig a ditch...

I would recommend that YOU learn economics because these concepts would be much simpler if you did.....

No, I don't like war but when a hostile nation gets out of line or has been out of line for 20 ******* years - yes you remove the individual thats behind it.... Your boy Obama knows all about that..

Too damned lazy... that's an easy excuse, isn't it? Perhaps they don't have the brainpower to be all you think they can be. Perhaps their calling lies in different areas than what you think is important(which seems to me to be making some billionaire even more money).

Not one of us is saying that a "ditch digger" deserves CEO wages. That is your personal misconception. What we are saying is that a "ditch digger" who works his ass off deserves a wage that can support his/her family in a decent manner.

Finally... I have no problem with just wars. Actually, I have LITTLE problem with wars that benefit our own society. I don't like people getting killed... especially innocents. However, I fully understand the competitive nature of "taking care of one's own".

However... what I do have a problem with is taking on such hostilities and forcing everyone but the people that benefit the most from those self serving actions to pay for it.

A guy who works as a "ditch digger" as you have so readily provided sees no benefit from these types of actions... but a oil baron sees great profit from those same actions. Your side seems to be all about giving the oil baron the tax breaks and making the ditch digger pay for those actions through cuts in services and job loss.

In short... you are supporting the "one wolf" in my scenario rather than the 50 sheep. All of it(I assume), in the vain attempt of hoping that the wolf will throw you a bone at one point.

It reeks of Charles Dickens' "Oliver Twist's"... "please sir... may I have some more?" Ideology.

They aren't going to give you... "some more" because they don't care about you.

 

[Mr.Nick]

So show me where gay marriage is a "civil right."

Plaintiffs do not seek recognition of a new right. To characterize plaintiffs’ objective as “the right to same-sex marriage” would suggest that plaintiffs seek something different from what opposite-sex couples across the state enjoy —— namely, marriage. Rather, plaintiffs ask California to recognize their relationships for what they are: marriages.

https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/09cv2292-ORDER.pdf

Marriage is NOTHING more than contract....

And contract law is written by the states. The 14th Amendment guarantees all states’ citizens have equal access to the laws of their respective states:

Proposition 8 cannot withstand any level of scrutiny under the Equal Protection Clause, as excluding same-sex couples from marriage is simply not rationally related to a legitimate state interest.

Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.

https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/09cv2292-ORDER.pdf

Wrong... er somewhat correct in an odd way...

Besides even if you were right, you would have just screwed yourself there.

If what you said WAS true, then per the Tenth Amendment prop 8 passed therefore it is law and therefore civil unions would violate the direct democratically passed law that was Prop 8.

Kinda like pissing in the wind... eh??

 

[oreo]

Well, this is what we get from the wonders of liberalism--and it's marriage with unions and greed:


New York, New Jersey and California come bottom of individual freedoms study | Mail Online

I love my state, I really do. But the absolutely psychotic Democrat/union controlled legislature that runs it makes for interesting times to say the least.

At least Governor Brown had the stones to veto the insane, so-called balanced, budget. Although, there are those who believe the whole thing was planned for him to veto it. Who knows?

Come on in. Taxes for everyone!

New Jersey proved that if you overtax the wealthy they just move to another state. The state of New Jersey lost 70 BILLION in state tax revenue because they kept raising taxes on the wealthy.

N.J. loses $70B in wealth during five years as residents depart | NJ.com

That's one thing about liberals--they never learn from one another--

 

[Mr.Nick]

Yes, I don't give a **** about people that could have been something but live on welfare because they're lazy...

Yes, I'm not a socialist.... People should be rewarded for being successful...

Yes, I would give tax cuts to those that do well in life because those who DONT and live on the the government coin deserve absolutely nothing..

My advice to the ******* greedy retards who believe they should get CEO wadges for digging ditches is: do something thats in HIGH DEMAND because anyone can dig a ditch...

I would recommend that YOU learn economics because these concepts would be much simpler if you did.....

No, I don't like war but when a hostile nation gets out of line or has been out of line for 20 ******* years - yes you remove the individual thats behind it.... Your boy Obama knows all about that..

Too damned lazy... that's an easy excuse, isn't it? Perhaps they don't have the brainpower to be all you think they can be. Perhaps their calling lies in different areas than what you think is important(which seems to me to be making some billionaire even more money).

Not one of us is saying that a "ditch digger" deserves CEO wages. That is your personal misconception. What we are saying is that a "ditch digger" who works his ass off deserves a wage that can support his/her family in a decent manner.

Finally... I have no problem with just wars. Actually, I have LITTLE problem with wars that benefit our own society. I don't like people getting killed... especially innocents. However, I fully understand the competitive nature of "taking care of one's own".

However... what I do have a problem with is taking on such hostilities and forcing everyone but the people that benefit the most from those self serving actions to pay for it.

A guy who works as a "ditch digger" as you have so readily provided sees no benefit from these types of actions... but a oil baron sees great profit from those same actions. Your side seems to be all about giving the oil baron the tax breaks and making the ditch digger pay for those actions through cuts in services and job loss.

In short... you are supporting the "one wolf" in my scenario rather than the 50 sheep. All of it(I assume), in the vain attempt of hoping that the wolf will throw you a bone at one point.

It reeks of Charles Dickens' "Oliver Twist's"... "please sir... may I have some more?" Ideology.

They aren't going to give you... "some more" because they don't care about you.

Do you NOT understand the concept of supply and demand???

Do you not understand economics???

If you needed a job and and there were 50 guys willing to do the same job you were willing to do and they were bidding on the job and the person offering the job said "i'll give you 20 bucks an hour" you would certainly say "hell I need the work I'll do it for 19 bucks an hour," then the guy behind you says he will do it for 18 bucks an hour, then you say 17 and so on...

Now there are 50 guys bidding on that work, now who the **** do you believe the individual offering that work is going to go with????

Also, do you not believe the wealthy have NOT taken a hit in this economy??? their dollar has shrunk as well - why the **** you think there are no jobs dummy???

Do you think they just don't feel like hiring you?? do you not believe its not in their best interests to hire you??? if you believe that then you're not very bright. You're a potential consumer and consumption of goods and services is the lifeline of the economy...

Furthermore employers would love to pay more to peon employees, it just so happens they cant and shouldn't and wont...

This is a competition based market, and when there is an abundance of people that can do your job and there are only a few that can do mine, and my job is in demand then I'm going to get paid and you will be stuck making 7.50 an hour because there will always be a person to take your spot because you're fodder...

Its not that difficult of an idea... 50 of you 3 employers 10 job openings - 3 of me 50 employers 300 job openings...

 

[oreo]

In what ******* universe are republicans racist???

Supply evidence of their racism....

Why because they're opposed to motherfucking welfare???

You ever think for a second that its the democrats that are STILL racists?? you're the one pimping the blacks and giving them free welfare and all that shit and its the republicans who are telling them to stand on their feet..

You ever think for a second that the leftist party is nothing more than a failure?? you ever think you're cannon fodder, that you're a product to keep the leftist party alive??

I suppose its kinda easy to see if you're on the outside looking in, however I suppose its difficult if you're on the inside looking out.

Yeah... because they are opposed to welfare. You don't seem to have a problem with fighting wars on two front and giving tax breaks.. nor do you mind deficit spending as long as the wealthy don't have to sacrifice in the same vein as the poor and middle class.

Let's **** with people who don't have a pot to piss in and give even MORE breaks to those with mansions and ferrari's and vacation homes in the Caribbean. Not to mention a nice little nest egg holed up in the Caymen Islands that will never get taxed.

You are one of the ignorant masses that actually still believe in trickle down economics as the standard. You believe that any job is a good job.

You believe that people who aren't all that smart deserve to live on the fringe of society, while the intelligent who choose to dedicate their lives to material wealth deserve it all.

You see, I don't believe that. Yes... there are some that have completely given up, and an even smaller number of people that never had any intention of showing up. But you see them as the norm... I see them as an anomaly. We USED to have good paying jobs for anyone that had the gumption to work. Now we have jobs that were at one time relegated to school kids looking for gas money and "fun times" being transferred to people that need to raise a god damned family on... all because of the "Profit motive" that you speak so highly of.

What has been totally distorted and summarily dismissed from the CORPORATISTS that rule our country(and a huge chunk of the WORLD) is that people matter.

One of the greatest quotes ever regarding wealth redistribution:

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Andrian Rodgers 1931

 

[FA_Q2]

In the city of Glendale California a person can no longer smoke in their own apartment. If that is not un-Constitutional it should be. In Calabasas California a person can not smoke walking down the street. It is now illegal to smoke on an L.A. City Golf Course. Helmets must be worn on Motorcycles and seat belts must be worn in cars. In Pasadena it is illegal for a secretary to be alone in a room with her boss.

Stupid fvcking Democrats

Who gives a shit about that petty bullshit? What I want to know is how people are living.

The whole "lightbulb/smoking/drinking/drugging" argument is complete crap stirred by the media.

Are people better off living in a "blue" state vs. a "Red" state is all I care about.

Here is the scary part: you do not seem to care about freedoms or rights. Only ‘quality of life.’ I guess that you would be more than happy to live in a cage as long as it was comfortable. That is exactly the mentality of the Italians with Mussolini. He did, after all, make the trains run on time. I, on the other hand, value my freedom more than ANYTHING else. If I am free then I can take care of the rest.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Just throwing a chunk of metal into the mix:

Domestic Constituencies, by Noam Chomsky

Are those of us who are not unionized not de facto victims of state unions' greed? Exactly whom do our elected officials represent? Who are their constituencies?

When the state (and other) governments fail, who will be left to pay the bills?

 

[SillyWabbit]

Does this matter at all?

Government in Exile: Why are Companies Leaving California?

More Businesses Leaving California

http://www.csub.edu/kej/documents/happening/2011-03-21_business.pdf

This is absolute freedom: freedom to please leave and take your jobs with you.

Buh bye now, buh bye--ooh, and no smoking on your way out. Thx!

 

[Mr.Nick]

Just throwing a chunk of metal into the mix:

Domestic Constituencies, by Noam Chomsky

Are those of us who are not unionized not de facto victims of state unions' greed? Exactly whom do our elected officials represent? Who are their constituencies?

When the state (and other) governments fail, who will be left to pay the bills?

Communists like Noam think short term while the more intelligent tend to think long term.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Just throwing a chunk of metal into the mix:

Domestic Constituencies, by Noam Chomsky

Are those of us who are not unionized not de facto victims of state unions' greed? Exactly whom do our elected officials represent? Who are their constituencies?

When the state (and other) governments fail, who will be left to pay the bills?

Communists like Noam think short term while the more intelligent tend to think long term.

My thing is that it's nice for people to pontificate. Everyone can pull their own uniform on and root for the home team. We can't all retire at 50 with full benefits for life that we didn't pay in to. It should not even be a debate.

For people who manage state run systems to think that its just fine and dandy to suck up the general funds in order to back this nonsense is criminal.

I'm sure I didn't use the word "criminal" in the proper way.

What's being asked of us is still. . .

. . .bullshit.

There, I have cussed.

 

[Steelplate]

Yes, I don't give a **** about people that could have been something but live on welfare because they're lazy...

Yes, I'm not a socialist.... People should be rewarded for being successful...

Yes, I would give tax cuts to those that do well in life because those who DONT and live on the the government coin deserve absolutely nothing..

My advice to the ******* greedy retards who believe they should get CEO wadges for digging ditches is: do something thats in HIGH DEMAND because anyone can dig a ditch...

I would recommend that YOU learn economics because these concepts would be much simpler if you did.....

No, I don't like war but when a hostile nation gets out of line or has been out of line for 20 ******* years - yes you remove the individual thats behind it.... Your boy Obama knows all about that..

Too damned lazy... that's an easy excuse, isn't it? Perhaps they don't have the brainpower to be all you think they can be. Perhaps their calling lies in different areas than what you think is important(which seems to me to be making some billionaire even more money).

Not one of us is saying that a "ditch digger" deserves CEO wages. That is your personal misconception. What we are saying is that a "ditch digger" who works his ass off deserves a wage that can support his/her family in a decent manner.

Finally... I have no problem with just wars. Actually, I have LITTLE problem with wars that benefit our own society. I don't like people getting killed... especially innocents. However, I fully understand the competitive nature of "taking care of one's own".

However... what I do have a problem with is taking on such hostilities and forcing everyone but the people that benefit the most from those self serving actions to pay for it.

A guy who works as a "ditch digger" as you have so readily provided sees no benefit from these types of actions... but a oil baron sees great profit from those same actions. Your side seems to be all about giving the oil baron the tax breaks and making the ditch digger pay for those actions through cuts in services and job loss.

In short... you are supporting the "one wolf" in my scenario rather than the 50 sheep. All of it(I assume), in the vain attempt of hoping that the wolf will throw you a bone at one point.

It reeks of Charles Dickens' "Oliver Twist's"... "please sir... may I have some more?" Ideology.

They aren't going to give you... "some more" because they don't care about you.

Do you NOT understand the concept of supply and demand???

Do you not understand economics???

If you needed a job and and there were 50 guys willing to do the same job you were willing to do and they were bidding on the job and the person offering the job said "i'll give you 20 bucks an hour" you would certainly say "hell I need the work I'll do it for 19 bucks an hour," then the guy behind you says he will do it for 18 bucks an hour, then you say 17 and so on...

Now there are 50 guys bidding on that work, now who the **** do you believe the individual offering that work is going to go with????

Also, do you not believe the wealthy have NOT taken a hit in this economy??? their dollar has shrunk as well - why the **** you think there are no jobs dummy???

Do you think they just don't feel like hiring you?? do you not believe its not in their best interests to hire you??? if you believe that then you're not very bright. You're a potential consumer and consumption of goods and services is the lifeline of the economy...

Furthermore employers would love to pay more to peon employees, it just so happens they cant and shouldn't and wont...

This is a competition based market, and when there is an abundance of people that can do your job and there are only a few that can do mine, and my job is in demand then I'm going to get paid and you will be stuck making 7.50 an hour because there will always be a person to take your spot because you're fodder...

Its not that difficult of an idea... 50 of you 3 employers 10 job openings - 3 of me 50 employers 300 job openings...

Sure, I understand economics... I also can recognize a rigged system when I see it. You obviously can't... or refuse to.