The Great Global Pushback

[forkup]

Reagan would be to the left of Biden?

What ideology?

The ideology of real politics. The understanding that politics isn't about getting everything you want when you win an election, but rather that it gives you a better bargaining position to attain some of your ideological goals. In a constant give and take. As the primary goal.

Actually achieving those ideological goals as a secondary goal.

 

[Mac1958]

forkup

Mac, what you posted is aspirational... not an answer to my question. Since you aren't really stating an acceptable compromise but simply your opinion, and most important directly contradicts the premise of the OP.

You are suggesting as an answer to immigration, funding the emergence of another player in globalization. The exact thing the premise of your OP says the left should be "less combative", about. And is a direct and probably core reason for the resurgence of the extreme right.

It doesn't matter that it makes sense. It doesn't matter that you like it. I was asking what you think would be an acceptable compromise and you come back with a suggestion that is both politically totally unacceptable to the right. But is considerably to the left of what the Democratic establishment would dare suggest.

As I said. The difficulty you experience in coming up with an acceptable compromise should be a big hint to the fact that there is no compromise the right will accept. Invalidating your premise that there's a point to "being less combative" on the left.

I don't have an acceptable compromise, because that would be up to the collaborative process. The idea I posted is just an idea. A germ. A seed.

A business doesn't enter into a collaborative process knowing what the outcome will be, does it? It doesn't try to predict what innovation will create, does it? It wants a solution.

I'm the first to admit that I really don't understand politics, and this conversation is a perfect example. I don't understand the goals of the behaviors. I thought it was about improving things.

 

[Darkwind]

Can anyone explain why Macron is calling for new elections?

He is a radicalized progressive who refuses to accept the outcome of any election that does not keep his party in power.

BTW, there is no 'far right'. The alleged, 'far right' is really centrist liberals from the 1980s. The problem is that the left is radical and far, far, far, left. Paticularly in Europe.

 

[forkup]

I don't have an acceptable compromise, because that would be up to the collaborative process. The idea I posted is just an idea. A germ. A seed.

A business doesn't enter into a collaborative process knowing what the outcome will be, does it? It doesn't try to predict what innovation will create, does it? It wants a solution.

I'm the first to admit that I really don't understand politics, and this conversation is a perfect example. I don't understand the goals of the behaviors. I thought it was about improving things.

The first goal in every collaboration, be it political, personal, or business. Is to establish a coherent premise. That's my goal here.

The problem that I've been experiencing with you over the last couple of days. And I want to reiterate that I feel no malice whatsoever here. I think, and I hope you think, we are simply having an honest conversation. Is that you have started and discussed several post were you've identified hyper partisanship from both sides as the reason for the current political climate.

I disagree with that "both sides" premise. Not that I will claim the left is free of sin. What I will claim is a category difference. And I also disagree with the impression you give, (maybe inadvertently) that your proposed solution is that the left compromises, without asking any such thing from the right.

 

[forkup]

He is a radicalized progressive who refuses to accept the outcome of any election that does not keep his party in power.

BTW, there is no 'far right'. The alleged, 'far right' is really centrist liberals from the 1980s. The problem is that the left is radical and far, far, far, left. Paticularly in Europe.

Lol. Voluntarily giving up power, because your party got trounced in an election, because you don't feel you have a mandate anymore is refusing to accept the outcome of an election.

How do you square that hole?

 

[jc456]

It would be (very) wrong to look at other important parts of the world right now, and not draw some possible parallels.

Seems (to me) that those parallels are pretty clear: A pushback against what is perceived as anti-nationalism (or, the dilution of nations by immigration and cultural norms). And to get more specific, it's immigration without expectation/requirements of assimilation. There are other issues as well, mostly centering around cultural topics.

We can pretend this isn't happening, or we can consider the possibility that there is a significant number of people who feel this way. To ignore it would be a mistake. To mock it would be a mistake. To attack and punish it would CONTINUE to be a mistake.

Seems to me the concerns are reasonable, even if they are advanced in (very) counterproductive ways. THIS is REAL.

Thoughts?

Germany's far-right makes strong gains in EU vote despite scandals

The far-right Alternative for Germany shrugged off a string of scandals to make solid gains and take second place in Sunday's EU election, according to first exit polls, a result that, if conmfirmed, would underscore the party's resilience ahead of next year's federal election. The forecast...

www.yahoo.com

French President Macron calls a snap legislative election after defeat in EU vote

French President Emmanuel Macron said Sunday he was dissolving the National Assembly and calling a snap legislative election after his party suffered a heavy defeat in elections for the European Parliament.

apnews.com

EU nightmare over fresh right-wing surge with Scholz humiliated at election

Right-wing forces across the continent are expecting to make gains on their liberal and Left-wing rivals.

www.express.co.uk

far right blah, blah, blah, blah. You can't even define far right.

 

[SweetSue92]

Do most of them even want to buy a house? My daughter is 29 makes more a year than either the wife or I and she has no desire at all to buy a house. She likes being mobile, likes being able to go where the job takes her.

Owning has some benefits, but also has negatives.

Yes. They both would.

 

[WelfareQueen]

It would be (very) wrong to look at other important parts of the world right now, and not draw some possible parallels.

Seems (to me) that those parallels are pretty clear: A pushback against what is perceived as anti-nationalism (or, the dilution of nations by immigration and cultural norms). And to get more specific, it's immigration without expectation/requirements of assimilation. There are other issues as well, mostly centering around cultural topics.

We can pretend this isn't happening, or we can consider the possibility that there is a significant number of people who feel this way. To ignore it would be a mistake. To mock it would be a mistake. To attack and punish it would CONTINUE to be a mistake.

Seems to me the concerns are reasonable, even if they are advanced in (very) counterproductive ways. THIS is REAL.

Thoughts?

Germany's far-right makes strong gains in EU vote despite scandals

The far-right Alternative for Germany shrugged off a string of scandals to make solid gains and take second place in Sunday's EU election, according to first exit polls, a result that, if conmfirmed, would underscore the party's resilience ahead of next year's federal election. The forecast...

www.yahoo.com

French President Macron calls a snap legislative election after defeat in EU vote

French President Emmanuel Macron said Sunday he was dissolving the National Assembly and calling a snap legislative election after his party suffered a heavy defeat in elections for the European Parliament.

apnews.com

EU nightmare over fresh right-wing surge with Scholz humiliated at election

Right-wing forces across the continent are expecting to make gains on their liberal and Left-wing rivals.

www.express.co.uk

The development of the Nation State has been one of the greatest achievements in history. Why end it? What is the better alternative?

 

[jc456]

The ideology of real politics. The understanding that politics isn't about getting everything you want when you win an election, but rather that it gives you a better bargaining position to attain some of your ideological goals. In a constant give and take. As the primary goal.

Actually achieving those ideological goals as a secondary goal.

well since demofks don't negotiate, how does that square?

 

[jc456]

I don't have an acceptable compromise, because that would be up to the collaborative process. The idea I posted is just an idea. A germ. A seed.

A business doesn't enter into a collaborative process knowing what the outcome will be, does it? It doesn't try to predict what innovation will create, does it? It wants a solution.

I'm the first to admit that I really don't understand politics, and this conversation is a perfect example. I don't understand the goals of the behaviors. I thought it was about improving things.

it's very stupid. It assumes someone's political opinion of something that isn't real.

We do know the globalists are attempting a take over like Hitler wanted to do. And they have convinced many more stupid fkers to follow along their path to overall control. Wuhan was step one! Climate is step two.

 

[forkup]

well since demofks don't negotiate, how does that square?

Oh really. The last immigration bill the Democrats sponsored was written by a hardline immigration REPUBLICAN.

Republicans tanked it.

So what further "negotiations" do you suggest. Limiting the amount of crocodiles in the moat on the Southern border to "only" 5 per square feet.

I think when you let the other side write the text, you are willing to negotiate.

 

[jc456]

The first goal in every collaboration, be it political, personal, or business. Is to establish a coherent premise. That's my goal here.

The problem that I've been experiencing with you over the last couple of days. And I want to reiterate that I feel no malice whatsoever here. I think, and I hope you think, we are simply having an honest conversation. Is that you have started and discussed several post were you've identified hyper partisanship from both sides as the reason for the current political climate.

I disagree with that "both sides" premise. Not that I will claim the left is free of sin. What I will claim is a category difference. And I also disagree with the impression you give, (maybe inadvertently) that your proposed solution is that the left compromises, without asking any such thing from the right.

dude the evidence is being shown just yesterday when Morakas was asked why Xiden didn't do whatever this border thing is he just did sooner. And Mayorkas blamed republicans that aren't in control of the border. Sorry, I laugh at the stupid of demofks who think their base is so stupid as to believe that crap. The sad part is they actually do. So all you demofks don't go away mad, just go away. Fk!

MSN

 

[jc456]

Oh really. The last immigration bill the Democrats sponsored was written by a hardline immigration REPUBLICAN.

Republicans tanked it.

So what further "negotiations" do you suggest. Limiting the amount of crocodiles in the moat on the Southern border to "only" 5 per square feet.

I think when you let the other side write the text, you are willing to negotiate.

what was the demofks negotiating point of it?

 

[Mac1958]

The first goal in every collaboration, be it political, personal, or business. Is to establish a coherent premise. That's my goal here.

The problem that I've been experiencing with you over the last couple of days. And I want to reiterate that I feel no malice whatsoever here. I think, and I hope you think, we are simply having an honest conversation. Is that you have started and discussed several post were you've identified hyper partisanship from both sides as the reason for the current political climate.

I disagree with that "both sides" premise. Not that I will claim the left is free of sin. What I will claim is a category difference. And I also disagree with the impression you give, (maybe inadvertently) that your proposed solution is that the left compromises, without asking any such thing from the right.

Yes, I appreciate your civility and (most of all) your curiosity.

And no, I absolutely think the Right should drop all its ridiculous paranoia about collaboration. They have been convinced by the voices they trust that ANY communication, ANY cooperation, ANY collaboration is tantamount to abject surrender. And right now, I think the Left is better-equipped intellectually and mentally to collaborate and innovate. At this moment, if one end of the spectrum has more capacity to be "the adult in the room", it's the Left. But it has to get past being wary of doing it. Before the 2016 elections, I would have said "neither" side had the capacity.

I think the reason for the current political climate is a political/electoral "system" that incentivizes and rewards the very worst impulses of its participants. As with any relationship (business, personal, political, marital), the end of communication starts the clock on the end, period.

 

[forkup]

what was the demofks negotiating point of it?

You guys get everything regarding immigration. In exchange for not holding up the aid to Ukraine and Israel. Neither position is very popular with the left wing of the Democrats.

 

[Curried Goats]

The ideology of real politics. The understanding that politics isn't about getting everything you want when you win an election, but rather that it gives you a better bargaining position to attain some of your ideological goals. In a constant give and take. As the primary goal.

Actually achieving those ideological goals as a secondary goal.

Real politics. Who doesn't understand the limits of political power? I'm not here to compromise for comprises sake. It depends on what we're compromising on. Mac1958 thinks the left should compromise with the right on things like LGTBQ rights but there is no compromise to be had with bigots who want to define the limits of others rights based on their bigotry and hatred.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I despise the Stain for killing the Country late 2019 by launching, spreading and using Fauchi virus to cheat 2020 Election. Nothing you criminals wont stoop to.

Covid had nothing to do with Trump running up massive debt. This has been discussed repeatedly. Stop lying about it.

 

[jc456]

You guys get everything regarding immigration. In exchange for not holding up the aid to Ukraine and Israel. Neither position is very popular with the left wing of the Democrats.

you can't explain why we need to give money to ukraine?

 

[jc456]

Real politics. Who doesn't understand the limits of political power? I'm not here to compromise for comprises sake. It depends on what we're compromising on. Mac1958 thinks the left should compromise with the right on things like LGTBQ rights but there is no compromise to be had with bigots who want to define the limits of others rights based on their bigotry and hatred.

what the fk does that mean. What is it you mean? say it in English!

What is it you think they deserve?

Why do you think everyone has to agree with them? what kind of morbidity are you selling

 

[Curried Goats]

what the fk does that mean. What is it you mean? say it in English!

I can't fix your kind of stupid. That's beyond even my considerable capabilities....