The Great Abortion Compromise!

[Gunny]

I'll give you credit for at least being able to cut to the chase on the abortion issue. You just don't like being told what to do.

I think you might be on to something ....

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, if you guys can come up with a better procedure, I'm sure the medical fraternity would love to know it...

 

[dilloduck]

And yet the post from Gunny following this one (I am replying to) suggests otherwise (check out his first answer to her)

I understand--the sideshows are much more interesting to debate but trust me. It's all about power and feminism.

 

[MtnBiker]

Well, if you guys can come up with a better procedure, I'm sure the medical fraternity would love to know it...

In cases that both mother and baby are healthy a better procedure would be child birth.

 

[Dr Grump]

I understand--the sideshows are much more interesting to debate but trust me. It's all about power and feminism.

Yeah, I can see it now. A woman almost bleeding to death on the operating table crying out about woman power and that's what she needs the abortion for...

 

[Dr Grump]

In cases that both mother and baby are healthy a better procedure would be child birth.

Read my link....

 

[MtnBiker]

Read my link....

I did.

 

[Dr Grump]

I did.

Then why are you saying delivery the healthy baby? The doctor (that your original link used as a source) said it is carried out under tragic circumstances? You think the guy is lying in front of the committee? He has published many books on teh subject, has a lot more knowledge than you or I, and unless he is some sort of Joseph Mengele character, doesn't seem to have some morbid reason for carrying out the procedure.

 

[Gunny]

Well, if you guys can come up with a better procedure, I'm sure the medical fraternity would love to know it...

Clarification: as a means of medical necessity, I understand that such operations need to take place at times, just like any other.

As a means of convenience/birth control, partial birth abortion amounts to nothing more or less than murder, IMO.

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah, I can see it now. A woman almost bleeding to death on the operating table crying out about woman power and that's what she needs the abortion for...

you're arguing exceptions and extremes. That's not what this issue is all about. It's about women who don't want to be told what to do---did you know that it was even a man that invented that uncomfortable bra to wear?

 

[Dr Grump]

As a means of convenience/birth control, partial birth abortion amounts to nothing more or less than murder, IMO.

And if you read my link the doctor provided facts and figures and is not used for convenience. I agree, for convenience, it is a terrible thing to do. I'd be surprised if any doctor would do it for such reasons..could do, but I would be surprised...

 

[Gunny]

And yet the post from Gunny following this one (I am replying to) suggests otherwise (check out his first answer to her)

Which "her"?

If you mean Jillian, you and she jumped into the middle of this feet first without a clue. The argument with nt250 was about the procedure itself.

 

[MtnBiker]

Then why are you saying delivery the healthy baby? The doctor (that your original link used as a source) said it is carried out under tragic circumstances? You think the guy is lying in front of the committee? He has published many books on teh subject, has a lot more knowledge than you or I, and unless he is some sort of Joseph Mengele character, doesn't seem to have some morbid reason for carrying out the procedure.

I'm am being intellectually honest, yes I'm sure that the majority of PBA where performed in extreme cases that envolved tragic circumstances, could you try to be intellectually honest and agree that PBA could have been performed in cases that did not envolve any extraordinary circumstances?

 

[Gunny]

And if you read my link the doctor provided facts and figures and is not used for convenience. I agree, for convenience, it is a terrible thing to do. I'd be surprised if any doctor would do it for such reasons..could do, but I would be surprised...

I wasn't really arguing facts and figures. IIRC, partial birth abortion for anything other than medical necessity is against the law. I know very few people, right or left, who are proponents of partial birth abortion for any reason other than medical necessity, so , I wasn't accusing anyone of anything accept nt250 of not knowing what the Hell she was talking about.

 

[Dr Grump]

Which "her"?

If you mean Jillian, you and she jumped into the middle of this feet first without a clue. The argument with nt250 was about the procedure itself.

Not I. NT said the procedure was rare, MB posted his link and I responded to that..

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm am being intellectually honest, yes I'm sure that the majority of PBA where performed in extreme cases that envolved tragic circumstances, could you try to be intellectually honest and agree that PBA could have been performed in cases that did not envolve any extraordinary circumstances?

Absolutely possible...

 

[MtnBiker]

Why was there a ban on PBA if it is only done in extreme medical circumstances?

 

[UnAmericanYOU]

In cases that both mother and baby are healthy a better procedure would be child birth.

"Better procedure"? Parial-birth abortion exists because there's no chance of an "oops" abortion, i.e., a live birth.

It's always effective and sometimes elective:

There is currently no statistical information available on why "dilation and extraction" abortions are performed.

In a widely-publicized interview with The New York Times in 1997, Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, estimated that in the majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother and healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along in development.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5168163

Words don't always reflect reality.

Patients coming in for very late abortion - over 26 menstrual weeks' gestation - are almost always seeking services for termination of a desired pregnancy that has developed serious complications. This usually means the discovery of a catastrophic fetal anomaly or genetic disorder that guarantees death, suffering, or serious disability for the baby that would be delivered if the pregnancy were to continue to term. Occasionally a woman presents at this stage for pregnancy termination because of her own severe medical illness or a psychiatric indication.

A CO clinic that will do a pba in the third trimester, no referral needed.

http://www.drhern.com/medicalprocedures.asp

Last sentence is tantamount to abortion on demand, your precious Doctor Hern's own website.

 

[MissileMan]

I'm am being intellectually honest, yes I'm sure that the majority of PBA where performed in extreme cases that envolved tragic circumstances, could you try to intellectually honest and agree that PBA could have been performed in cases that did not envolve any extraordinary circumstances?

I would find it difficult to believe that any doctor would perform a PBA on a healthy fetus in a healthy mother...not saying it hasn't happened, but it would be very hard to believe. If it did occur, the SOB should be strung up.

 

[jillian]

Why was there a ban on PBA if it is only done in extreme medical circumstances?

The ban was struck down. And it's not real hard to explain. The religious right is a very powerful group and they wanted it.