The godawful truth and irony about the deficit.

[Godboy]

I pay 24% on my meager income.

Elmo pays 0.4% on his multiple billions.

Who needs to be taxed?

Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2 Billion of U.S. Income in 2024

Tesla reported $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 but paid zero federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million.

itep.org

 

[BlackSand]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

.

Hey ... What if we created a Department of Government Efficiency ...
And had some folks figure out where a bunch of waste and fraud is ... And in comparison to our tax dollars?

Then ... What if we took the money we saved doing that ... And started paying it against the debt ...
Instead of cutting checks back to the taxpayers ... Or figuring out another way to spend the savings ...
Thus ... Making it so we don't have to start raising taxes just yet?

Wow ... That would almost make sense ... Until you add a bunch of Assclowns in charge of everything ...
Thrown in with a bunch People who are more greedy than anything else ...
Hand it all to a bunch of snake oil hawkers in the media ...
And when they're all more worried about the politics than anything reasonable.

Yeah ... They'll probably just raise your taxes ... And try to convince you that it is for your own good ...
Not just more of their uncontrolled spending ...

.​

 

[Foxfyre]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

When taxes are lowered in a way that generates economic health and prosperity for all, we get more taxpayers and more revenue into the treasury. That was true under Reagan. That was true under Clinton. That was true under Bush 43. That was true under Trump 45. And I'm pretty sure that will be true of Trump 47.

On the other hand when George HW Bush raised taxes on the rich, he decimated the private boat and plane industries, cost thousands of jobs as a result of that, drove the high end jewelry industry off shore. The U.S. treasury benefited not at all. And it cost him his re-election in 1992.

You cannot punish the rich because you despise their wealth without punishing the non rich much more.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

Except rich insider Govt employees helped themselves to it. We need to prosecute and claw back. Not raise taxes

 

[task0778]

This country has a debt/deficit problem that is fueled by gov't overspending, and there is no way in hell we can raise taxes and tariffs enough to balance the budget. If you don't believe that then you are an ideological and fiscal fool. If I'm not mistaken, the TCJA ends this year and those tax cuts go away unless that Act gets extended. It'll be interesting to see what happens in Congress about that.

 

[Woodznutz]

yes, thx for the clarification Woodz.......so to my <limited> understanding we can assume as much debt as other nations are willing to buy.....~S

The public and the government hold about 80 percent of the debt. About $2Trillion is owed to Social Security.

 

[Foxfyre]

This country has a debt/deficit problem that is fueled by gov't overspending, and there is no way in hell we can raise taxes and tariffs enough to balance the budget. If you don't believe that then you are an ideological and fiscal fool. If I'm not mistaken, the TCJA ends this year and those tax cuts go away unless that Act gets extended. It'll be interesting to see what happens in Congress about that.

I'm fairly confident the current Congress will make TCIA permanent. They are debating now ways to add to/improve it. As it was, for the rank and file American, that was the most beneficial tax reform ever passed by Congress. Both Biden and Harris pledged to end it this year.

But it definitely needs to be made permanent. And it most likely can be improved.

That and reducing government down to its necessities/constitutional purpose and eliminating most likely trillions in unnecessary spending could give us our best shot at balancing the budget and then start paying down the debt. I can't imagine anything that would produce a better economy.

 

[80zephyr]

Lots of help from the government in the form of shelters like lower rates for capitol gains and other loopholes that aren't available to average people. Then there's the creative accounting and such, since he knows he will never be audited properly.

He gets no special tax breaks. Every American can get them. When you run a business you can get you taxes deferred(not forgiven) if you plow the money back into your business. There are two reasons to do this.

1) By allowing the money to be re-invested, it helps to grow the economy.

2) Reinvestment means more taxes, because reinvesting means more profits.

Our country does not forgive taxes, but it does defer them. And thats to our benefit.

 

[task0778]

Explicit federal debt results from past funding shortfalls under government policies. Annual deficits trigger borrowing from the public through Treasury securities. The government must use future receipts to pay interest and the principal. Each deficit year increases debt, requiring new securities to roll over maturing ones. Larger explicit debt means more future receipts devoted to debt service, reducing funds for public goods and services. The CBO reports explicit debt held by the public was $26.2 trillion at the end of 2023, rising to $28.2 trillion in 2024. [Current real time US Natl Debt is $36.5 Trillion]
.
.
Implicit debt refers to projected shortfalls in receipts compared to non-interest expenditures under current policies. Unlike explicit debt, implicit debt is non-contractual but still a firm government obligation. [We're primarily talking about SSA/Medicare] These programs' expenditures are determined by eligibility policies and depend on factors like age structure, retirement decisions, and health. Revenues depend on employment and earnings in covered occupations.
The shortfall, including taxes and benefits for current and future individuals, equals $65.7 trillion for those alive today.

Complete Measures of U.S. National Debt — Penn Wharton Budget Model

Treasury debt held by the public is an explicit pay-as-you-go obligation. The government also runs implicit pay-as-you-go obligations, such as Social Security and Medicare Part A, which are twice as large. Both types of obligations require tax increases and spending cuts to balance the budget over t

budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu

So, the reality is that under current laws and policies, the real debt is over $100 trillion and heading north. What's it going to be in 10, 20, or 50 years from now?

 

[Independent thinker]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

I'm saying that everyone who receives government benefits should pay the most taxes.

 

[Foxfyre]

The public and the government hold about 80 percent of the debt. About $2Trillion is owed to Social Security.

That is true. But if everybody called in their markers at the same time we are at a point it would bankrupt us. Just moving the money around isn't sustainable forever. It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Crepitus]

The rich are captives of the tax code as well.

No. They are the beneficiaries of it.

 

[Crepitus]

Thanks for the warning, but we can small you coming from a mile off.

 

[Moonglow]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

Just mine some bitcoins and pay off the debt.

 

[Crepitus]

He gets no special tax breaks.

Well that's a lie.

 

[Moonglow]

The rich are captives of the tax code as well. They must continue to invest in long-term investments in order to get the lower rates.

When even small businesses were faced with 39 percent tax rate on profits, they had no choice but to reinvest those profits in company growth. Lower business tax rates have meant that many small businesses pay the tax rather than reinvest them as they have no need or desire to expand. This means more revenue for the gov't.

"Normal" people are normal because they choose to be. Anyone who is 'intact' mentally and physically can become well-off in America if they choose to.

Not Jesus Christ.

 

[Rawley]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

2019 budget was $4.4T.
2024 budget was $6.8T

Why can' we just go back to 2019 spending levels and save two and a half trillion dollars?

 

[Anathema]

Regardless of money spent on foreign aid Americans are the main beneficiaries of government largess. They/we should be paying for these benefits through higher taxes. When our taxes are lowered (to buy votes) the government borrows the money for these benefits and pays interest on the loans. As taxes remain insufficient to repay these loans they are simply renewed, and more money is borrowed for yet more benefits and to maintain previous programs. The irony is that repayment of these loans is guaranteed by "the full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which is the power to levy taxes on the people to pay debts.

We should do that.

I’ve got a better idea…

Stop laying out money to Americans just like we should not be paying out money to foreign governments. There are VERY few Americans who should EVER see a single cent of money from the Frdersl Government.

 

[Woodznutz]

I pay 24% on my meager income.

Elmo pays 0.4% on his multiple billions.

Who needs to be taxed?

Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2 Billion of U.S. Income in 2024

Tesla reported $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 but paid zero federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million.

itep.org

I assume that you are including SS and Medicare deductions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I pay 24% on my meager income.

Elmo pays 0.4% on his multiple billions.

Who needs to be taxed?

Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2 Billion of U.S. Income in 2024

Tesla reported $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 but paid zero federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million.

itep.org

Elmo pays 0.4% on his multiple billions.

He doesn't pay 0.4% on his income.