The Globalization And Offshoring Of U.S. Jobs Have Hit Americans Hard

[fncceo]

Globalism is just another way for the rich to drain money from the poor.

Or a way for the rich to make products for less so poor folk can buy more stuff...

 

[JohnDB]

 

[DonGlock26]

Sounds like you're agreeing w/ me that the title of this thread is wrong and the fact is that there've been no loss of jobs. You mention income but you don't show any numbers to explain what you mean. When I look at real (adjusted for inflation) incomes I see years of increases.

Are you saying that the US has gained high paying manufacturing jobs over the last few decades?

What income figures you looking at and what does that have to do with manufacturing jobs that were sent overseas?

 

[Mac-7]

Is there some measurement of job quality or is that your personal take?

You dont have to look far

We are now in what many people call the Gig Economy

People working 2 or more part time jobs, often as self employed part time workers

Delivering hamburgers and fries in their POV for instance

 

[expat_panama]

You dont have to look far

We are now in what many people call the Gig Economy

People working 2 or more part time jobs, often as self employed part time workers

Delivering hamburgers and fries in their POV for instance

So you have an anecdote. Then again, when you come across a second anecdote you'll have "data"!

 

[Rambunctious]

That's pretty much the idea that Mac-7 was sharing and I'm still at a loss to understand how y'all are coming to that conclusion. If the pay is increasing and the hours are less and it's acceptable employment then why complain?

Pay is not keeping up with inflation and hours are only less so big fast food for example can have people work 39 hours and that way they can write them off as part time which gives them the ability to not pay min wage or provide benefits....
Somehow big mega corps. never get hit with government torpedo's...

 

[expat_panama]

Are you saying that the US has gained high paying manufacturing jobs over the last few decades?

Somehow it seems hard to believe that the high pay is running a punch-press all day long versus getting work as a doctor, lawyer, engineer...

What income figures you looking at and what does that have to do with manufacturing jobs that were sent overseas?

aw hell, anyone can google up a graph on real disposable income and see how salaries are up, same w/ a search on manufacturing employment. However, if your mind's made up then don't bother 'cause it won't make any difference.

 

[Kruska]

Sounds like you're agreeing w/ me that the title of this thread is wrong and the fact is that there've been no loss of jobs. You mention income but you don't show any numbers to explain what you mean. When I look at real (adjusted for inflation) incomes I see years of increases.

No - on the contra

Your employment/population ratio chart, clearly shows that the highest figure was in 1998, 65% (and that is also when China's economy kicks in) thus reducing the employment/population ratio in the USA, at present down to 61%. aka a job reduction % rate of Minus 6.1 %, which would make sense.

U.S. labor force 1990-2023 | Statista

This graph shows the civilian labor force in the United States from 1990 to 2023.

www.statista.com

According to STATISTA - the US employment figure in 1998 was 137 million and in 2024 was 163 million. + 25 million
- the US population in 1998 was 276 million and in 2024 was 345 million, + 69 million

However according to your presented figures (chart), 65% employment ratio in 1998 down to 61% in 2024 - simply doesn't add up.
Because 65% of 276 million in 1998 equates to 180 million employed (and not 137 million) - whilst 61% of 345 million in 2024 equates to 210 million employed ( and not to 162 million).

On the other hand,
137 million employed out of 276 million in 1998 equates to 50% employment/population ratio
163 million employed out of 345 million in 2024 equates to 47%
And 50% down to 47% would equate to a job reduction % of, Minus 6% - BINGO.

Now hopefully having clarified this issue correctly - the next matter holds the question as to (what qualification and thus income) do these 137 million to 163 million, aka those 36 million added jobs accumulated from 1998 to 2024 behold? e.g. low paid service industry or higher paid manufacturing industry? gardeners, vegetable pickers and valet parkers or IT programmers and construction workers.

Therefore - how many tax $$ and consumer buying power, did these 36 million added jobs factually provide/contribute?

Lastly - Trump and his tariff ideas:

Tariffs - no matter which country imposes these - they only make the consumer having to pay more and lastly never solve the issue.
Investment incentives are supposedly the magic word - Trump would need to come up with a multi US$ Trillion program (factually again being paid for by the consumer, aka taxpayer) in order to attract and as such to relocate US enterprises to the USA.

Therefore the only workable solution would be to revoke work-permits for around 20 million foreign workers within e.g. 3 years - if Americans then would be willing to work for an average of US$ 15/h.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

So you have an anecdote. Then again, when you come across a second anecdote you'll have "data"!

There are a multitude of anecdotes in the form of rust belt towns deteriorating all across the country. A sad, sad state of affairs.

 

[Mac-7]

So you have an anecdote. Then again, when you come across a second anecdote you'll have "data"!

I am not a professional researcher and you are not a star chamber that must be convinced

If you dont agree thats your problem

 

[DonGlock26]

Somehow it seems hard to believe that the high pay is running a punch-press all day long versus getting work as a doctor, lawyer, engineer...

aw hell, anyone can google up a graph on real disposable income and see how salaries are up, same w/ a search on manufacturing employment. However, if your mind's made up then don't bother 'cause it won't make any difference.

This thread is about manufacturing jobs not professions. People without good paying manufacturing jobs won't be able to afford a doctor, lawyer, or the things designed by engineers.

Post your sources here.

 

[expat_panama]

Pay is not keeping up with inflation and hours are only less so big fast food for example can have people work 39 hours and that way they can write them off as part time which gives them the ability to not pay min wage or provide benefits....
Somehow big mega corps. never get hit with government torpedo's...

Seems we've reached an impasse.

I'm looking at real incomes which are nominal incomes adjusted for inflation for a 40 hour work week. These are incomes/hours for a couple hundred workers in the U.S.. You're looking at something else and we'll have to leave it at that.

 

[expat_panama]

This thread is about manufacturing jobs not professions...

Huh. Somehow I got off course when I read the title of the thread "The Globalization And Offshoring Of U.S. Jobs Have Hit Americans Hard".

 

[DonGlock26]

Huh. Somehow I got off course when I read the title of the thread "The Globalization And Offshoring Of U.S. Jobs Have Hit Americans Hard".

Did you get so far off course that you didn't read the first paragraph?

 

[expat_panama]

No - on the contra

Your employment/population ratio chart, clearly shows that the highest figure was in 1998...

You're absolutely right, here's the graph again w/ the numbers...

--and it shows how we're down from the '98 peak of 64.6% but it also shows we're up from the covid dip of just 51.2%. The bottom line I'm looking at is most of the time we were lower than we are now. That means that the thread's title of "The Globalization And Offshoring Of U.S. Jobs Have Hit Americans Hard" is off the mark.

 

[Kruska]

You're absolutely right, here's the graph again w/ the numbers...


View attachment 1065221
--and it shows how we're down from the '98 peak of 64.6% but it also shows we're up from the covid dip of just 51.2%. The bottom line I'm looking at is most of the time we were lower than we are now. That means that the thread's title of "The Globalization And Offshoring Of U.S. Jobs Have Hit Americans Hard" is off the mark.

Obviously you didn't read through my post - but only picked out the obvious 65% contra 60% - shown on that chart of yours.

What your "questionable" chart also shows without any doubt is that from the late 40'ies to the end of Carters presidency (the average E-PR was 56%) Meaning that between e.g. 1948 to 1978 (30 years) - the E-PR never increased on average beyond that of 1948. - Why?

Then there is this sudden leap upwards from 1983 to 2000 aka from 56% to an average of 63% - Why?
Followed by a sudden and continuous decline from 2000 to 2024, from an average of 63% to a present E-PR of 60% - Why? (and never mind COVID), since this effected every country on the globe economically more or less on equal terms.

So three Why's - and thus the respective answers will tell you, what factually really happened with the USA's E-PR and it's economy.
And most important - presenting a plain E-PR statistic doesn't mean - nor proves anything.

Those three Why's, are impacted by three main factors

1. Inflation - and thus constant rising cost's of living
2. The influx of HUGE national debts
3. Rising International competition - certainly not just due to China - aka the USA lost it's international competitiveness across the board.
Remember Bush. sen. economic war against Japan and also Europe??

As such the thread's title of "The Globalization And Offshoring Of U.S. Jobs Have Hit Americans Hard" is NOT off the mark.- but a substantial factor in regards to the decline of the USA's economic strength and thus it's US$ BUYING power.

 

[expat_panama]

Obviously you didn't read through my post ..

You're absolutely right, it's a habit of mine for example when I find I'm being painted as the bad guy I slow things down to avoid having the convo get to far out of hand.