The global warming thread. Is it for real?

[Trakar]

The slaughter of 400,000+ birds per year is A-OK with you so long as it's a windmill doing it but if a oil spill kills 300 that company needs to be punished?

Hey, keep your weirdo fantasies about mass bird killing to yourself. Don't be projecting them on to sane people. I can't help what you believe, but don't pretend I believe it.

By the way, do you agree with SSDD's claim that windmills kill 90% of all raptors? You'd think someone would have noticed such a decline.

(The modern usage of "decimate" refers to killing 90%. The original Roman version was killing 10%, but modern English reverses that to 90%.)

Causes of Bird Mortality
Causes of Bird Mortality « Sibley Guides

Some new studies are suggesting that cats both domestic and feral have been greatly more devastating to bird populations in the US than is estimated in earlier studies like the above.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.html

 

[skookerasbil]

The slaughter of 400,000+ birds per year is A-OK with you so long as it's a windmill doing it but if a oil spill kills 300 that company needs to be punished?

Hey, keep your weirdo fantasies about mass bird killing to yourself. Don't be projecting them on to sane people. I can't help what you believe, but don't pretend I believe it.

By the way, do you agree with SSDD's claim that windmills kill 90% of all raptors? You'd think someone would have noticed such a decline.

(The modern usage of "decimate" refers to killing 90%. The original Roman version was killing 10%, but modern English reverses that to 90%.)

Causes of Bird Mortality
Causes of Bird Mortality « Sibley Guides

Some new studies are suggesting that cats both domestic and feral have been greatly more devastating to bird populations in the US than is estimated in earlier studies like the above.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.html

Oh GAWD!!!


What the **** happens to people like that........ obsess about shit nobody else gives a rats ass about.

Fascinating.

 

[flacaltenn]

The slaughter of 400,000+ birds per year is A-OK with you so long as it's a windmill doing it but if a oil spill kills 300 that company needs to be punished?

Hey, keep your weirdo fantasies about mass bird killing to yourself. Don't be projecting them on to sane people. I can't help what you believe, but don't pretend I believe it.

By the way, do you agree with SSDD's claim that windmills kill 90% of all raptors? You'd think someone would have noticed such a decline.

(The modern usage of "decimate" refers to killing 90%. The original Roman version was killing 10%, but modern English reverses that to 90%.)

Causes of Bird Mortality
Causes of Bird Mortality « Sibley Guides

Some new studies are suggesting that cats both domestic and feral have been greatly more devastating to bird populations in the US than is estimated in earlier studies like the above.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.html

We did this one TWICE in the past year.. (pretty sure).. The real masses of victims are not birds ---- but bats.. They seem attracted to the fans and the sound pressure alone crushes their little hearts as they fly even NEAR the blades..

Not surprised the cat doesn't care about a few birds getting blended..

 

[percysunshine]

Crushing cute bats?

That is down right cruel.

 

[Trakar]

We did this one TWICE in the past year.. (pretty sure)..

Sounds about right, all the references are in my current file (random handful

http://www.cse.org.uk/downloads/file/common_concerns_about_wind_power.pdf

Bats and Wind Energy Cooperative (BWEC)

http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr191/Asilomar/pdfs/1029-1042.pdf

http://law.uoregon.edu/org/jell/docs/271/Mensing.pdf

 

[westwall]

Have you ever noticed the double standard with these so called environmentalists? The reality is they could care less about the environment, they care about power. The proof of this is demonstrated by dear old trakar here who will forgive any number of bird and bat kills to further his political goal.



"Dead bats are turning up beneath wind turbines all over the world. Bat fatalities have now been documented at nearly every wind facility in North America where adequate surveys for bats have been conducted, and several of these sites are estimated to cause the deaths of thousands of bats per year. This unanticipated and unprecedented problem for bats has moved to the forefront of conservation and management efforts directed toward this poorly understood group of mammals. The mystery of why bats die at turbine sites remains unsolved. Is it a simple case of flying in the wrong place at the wrong time? Are bats attracted to the spinning turbine blades? Why are so many bats colliding with turbines compared to their infrequent crashes with other tall, human-made structures?"

Bat Fatalities at Wind Turbines: Investigating the Causes and Consequences


"Researchers at the University of Calgary found that the vast majority of bats found dead at a wind farm in Southwest Alberta suffered severe injuries to their respiratory systems consistent with a sudden drop in air pressure – called barotrauma.1 The findings, published in the most recent issue of the journal Current Biology could potentially have far-reaching consequences on bat populations."

Study Finds Wind Turbines Killing Bats Without Even Hitting Them | CleanTechnica

There is concern for a number of other bat species as well. The Eastern small-footed myotis (Myotis leibii) is a state threatened species in Pennsylvania that no summer studies have focused on. In 2003 three bats of this type in New Hampshire were shown to make extensive use of ridge tops for foraging and roosting during a significant portion of the night. Also of concern is the large number of red bats (Lasiurus borealis), hoary bats (Lasiurus cinereus), and tri-colored bat (Perimyotis subflavus) reported dead at wind farm facilities in West Virginia. It is difficult to gauge the vitality of these elusive species. Without any realistic solution for minimizing impacts to migratory animals, an increase of wind plants in the future will contribute to their decline.

Indiana Bats and Wind Farms

Driving a species to extinction for a political goal is evil personified....

 

[Saigon]

Flac -

And yet you still have not answered my question about the environmental problems with traditional forms of energy production.

It is one thing to rightly point out the issues with hydro or tidal - another to keep dodging the much more severe problems with coal or even nuclear.

 

[westwall]

Flac -

And yet you still have not answered my question about the environmental problems with traditional forms of energy production.

It is one thing to rightly point out the issues with hydro or tidal - another to keep dodging the much more severe problems with coal or even nuclear.

Windfarms kill orders of magnitude more every year than all the critter deaths caused by big oil for it's whole history. When are you going to address that?

 

[Trakar]

Have you ever noticed the double standard with these so called environmentalists? The reality is they could care less about the environment, they care about power. The proof of this is demonstrated by dear old trakar here who will forgive any number of bird and bat kills to further his political goal.



"Dead bats are turning up beneath wind turbines all over the world. Bat fatalities have now been documented at nearly every wind facility in North America where adequate surveys for bats have been conducted, and several of these sites are estimated to cause the deaths of thousands of bats per year. This unanticipated and unprecedented problem for bats has moved to the forefront of conservation and management efforts directed toward this poorly understood group of mammals. The mystery of why bats die at turbine sites remains unsolved. Is it a simple case of flying in the wrong place at the wrong time? Are bats attracted to the spinning turbine blades? Why are so many bats colliding with turbines compared to their infrequent crashes with other tall, human-made structures?"

Bat Fatalities at Wind Turbines: Investigating the Causes and Consequences


"Researchers at the University of Calgary found that the vast majority of bats found dead at a wind farm in Southwest Alberta suffered severe injuries to their respiratory systems consistent with a sudden drop in air pressure – called barotrauma.1 The findings, published in the most recent issue of the journal Current Biology could potentially have far-reaching consequences on bat populations."

Study Finds Wind Turbines Killing Bats Without Even Hitting Them | CleanTechnica

There is concern for a number of other bat species as well. The Eastern small-footed myotis (Myotis leibii) is a state threatened species in Pennsylvania that no summer studies have focused on. In 2003 three bats of this type in New Hampshire were shown to make extensive use of ridge tops for foraging and roosting during a significant portion of the night. Also of concern is the large number of red bats (Lasiurus borealis), hoary bats (Lasiurus cinereus), and tri-colored bat (Perimyotis subflavus) reported dead at wind farm facilities in West Virginia. It is difficult to gauge the vitality of these elusive species. Without any realistic solution for minimizing impacts to migratory animals, an increase of wind plants in the future will contribute to their decline.

Indiana Bats and Wind Farms

Driving a species to extinction for a political goal is evil personified....

None of these links provide anything contradictory to the links I gave which explain these issues in detail, the proper quantification of these impacts and the steps already in place to address these issues and minimize their environmental impacts,...even when such wild-life casualties were a more serious issue the kill rates for wind turbines was still much lower than the kill rates of other human impacts and sources of energy.

 

[westwall]

Have you ever noticed the double standard with these so called environmentalists? The reality is they could care less about the environment, they care about power. The proof of this is demonstrated by dear old trakar here who will forgive any number of bird and bat kills to further his political goal.



"Dead bats are turning up beneath wind turbines all over the world. Bat fatalities have now been documented at nearly every wind facility in North America where adequate surveys for bats have been conducted, and several of these sites are estimated to cause the deaths of thousands of bats per year. This unanticipated and unprecedented problem for bats has moved to the forefront of conservation and management efforts directed toward this poorly understood group of mammals. The mystery of why bats die at turbine sites remains unsolved. Is it a simple case of flying in the wrong place at the wrong time? Are bats attracted to the spinning turbine blades? Why are so many bats colliding with turbines compared to their infrequent crashes with other tall, human-made structures?"

Bat Fatalities at Wind Turbines: Investigating the Causes and Consequences


"Researchers at the University of Calgary found that the vast majority of bats found dead at a wind farm in Southwest Alberta suffered severe injuries to their respiratory systems consistent with a sudden drop in air pressure – called barotrauma.1 The findings, published in the most recent issue of the journal Current Biology could potentially have far-reaching consequences on bat populations."

Study Finds Wind Turbines Killing Bats Without Even Hitting Them | CleanTechnica

There is concern for a number of other bat species as well. The Eastern small-footed myotis (Myotis leibii) is a state threatened species in Pennsylvania that no summer studies have focused on. In 2003 three bats of this type in New Hampshire were shown to make extensive use of ridge tops for foraging and roosting during a significant portion of the night. Also of concern is the large number of red bats (Lasiurus borealis), hoary bats (Lasiurus cinereus), and tri-colored bat (Perimyotis subflavus) reported dead at wind farm facilities in West Virginia. It is difficult to gauge the vitality of these elusive species. Without any realistic solution for minimizing impacts to migratory animals, an increase of wind plants in the future will contribute to their decline.

Indiana Bats and Wind Farms

Driving a species to extinction for a political goal is evil personified....

None of these links provide anything contradictory to the links I gave which explain these issues in detail, the proper quantification of these impacts and the steps already in place to address these issues and minimize their environmental impacts,...even when such wild-life casualties were a more serious issue the kill rates for wind turbines was still much lower than the kill rates of other human impacts and sources of energy.

Please give us a total animal kill for all of the oil spills over the last 50 years. And please provide links.

 

[Saigon]

I think it's fairly clear to any honest person that the issues with wind and tidal and wildlife are more teething problems than anything game changing.

With tidal I understand the issues are close to being resolved, and also with wind there are few problems in areas that do not have majaor bat populations.

 

[Trakar]

Have you ever noticed the double standard with these so called environmentalists? The reality is they could care less about the environment, they care about power. The proof of this is demonstrated by dear old trakar here who will forgive any number of bird and bat kills to further his political goal.



"Dead bats are turning up beneath wind turbines all over the world. Bat fatalities have now been documented at nearly every wind facility in North America where adequate surveys for bats have been conducted, and several of these sites are estimated to cause the deaths of thousands of bats per year. This unanticipated and unprecedented problem for bats has moved to the forefront of conservation and management efforts directed toward this poorly understood group of mammals. The mystery of why bats die at turbine sites remains unsolved. Is it a simple case of flying in the wrong place at the wrong time? Are bats attracted to the spinning turbine blades? Why are so many bats colliding with turbines compared to their infrequent crashes with other tall, human-made structures?"

Bat Fatalities at Wind Turbines: Investigating the Causes and Consequences


"Researchers at the University of Calgary found that the vast majority of bats found dead at a wind farm in Southwest Alberta suffered severe injuries to their respiratory systems consistent with a sudden drop in air pressure – called barotrauma.1 The findings, published in the most recent issue of the journal Current Biology could potentially have far-reaching consequences on bat populations."

Study Finds Wind Turbines Killing Bats Without Even Hitting Them | CleanTechnica

There is concern for a number of other bat species as well. The Eastern small-footed myotis (Myotis leibii) is a state threatened species in Pennsylvania that no summer studies have focused on. In 2003 three bats of this type in New Hampshire were shown to make extensive use of ridge tops for foraging and roosting during a significant portion of the night. Also of concern is the large number of red bats (Lasiurus borealis), hoary bats (Lasiurus cinereus), and tri-colored bat (Perimyotis subflavus) reported dead at wind farm facilities in West Virginia. It is difficult to gauge the vitality of these elusive species. Without any realistic solution for minimizing impacts to migratory animals, an increase of wind plants in the future will contribute to their decline.

Indiana Bats and Wind Farms

Driving a species to extinction for a political goal is evil personified....

None of these links provide anything contradictory to the links I gave which explain these issues in detail, the proper quantification of these impacts and the steps already in place to address these issues and minimize their environmental impacts,...even when such wild-life casualties were a more serious issue the kill rates for wind turbines was still much lower than the kill rates of other human impacts and sources of energy.

Please give us a total animal kill for all of the oil spills over the last 50 years. And please provide links.

Are oil spills the only form of harm that fossil fuel energy sources display with regard to environmental impact? What about soot, sulfur emissions, CO2 (per USSC ruling), radionuclides, etc.,.

Here are a few (of many) comparisons, for those that might actually be interested in the subject:

The Avian and Wildlife Costs of Fossil Fuels and Nuclear Power by Benjamin K. Sovacool :: SSRN

Wildlife and pollution - MarineBio.org

www.napa.vn

Many more available for the interested.

 

[Saigon]

Wall of Spam -

"potential" environmental effects of fracking (when there have been none documented in over 30 years)

An investigation is underway into why a natural gas well in Wyoming County began spewing highly pressurized fracking wastewater for hours last week.

More than a quarter million gallons came out of the well before it was successfully capped.

After Fracking Wastewater Spill, Residents and Regulators Believe Water is Safe | StateImpact Pennsylvania

Known Liar-


Yeah? So? What happened? The Earth naturally spews out orders of magnitude more crud than that...every day... How many hundreds of thousands of birds were killed? How many hundreds of thousands of bugs were killed? Once again your grasp of reality is called into question.

Wall of Spam -

I think the honest response from you here would have been "I am wrong about their not having been any major environmental problems with fracking - my mistake".

And you wonder why so many posters ignore you?

 

[Old Rocks]

Flac -

And yet you still have not answered my question about the environmental problems with traditional forms of energy production.

It is one thing to rightly point out the issues with hydro or tidal - another to keep dodging the much more severe problems with coal or even nuclear.

Windfarms kill orders of magnitude more every year than all the critter deaths caused by big oil for it's whole history. When are you going to address that?

Why should anyone try to address that stupidity?

 

[mamooth]

I'm seeing some record fast backpedaling on the "wind farms decimate raptors!" stupidity. Same old story. Denialists spout hysterical crap, get called on it, and so spout more crap as a smokescreen to cover their retreat.

Oh, the cat/bird studies are some major junk science, making wild claims about each cat killing hundreds of birds each year. They list tallies of _billions_ of birds killed each year, something like about half the total bird population of North America. Yes, supposedly around half of the birds in the USA are eaten by cats each year. It's just crazy.

See, birds fly. That makes them really hard for a cat to catch. Oh, the cats try, but rarely succeed, and usually end up having to eat grasshoppers and cicadas. My cat tries her best to get those birds, and gets about 2 a year. And those are worthless invasive house sparrows, the killing of which is a good thing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Flac -

And yet you still have not answered my question about the environmental problems with traditional forms of energy production.

It is one thing to rightly point out the issues with hydro or tidal - another to keep dodging the much more severe problems with coal or even nuclear.

You have been badgering me and trolling me incessantly here.. I went LAST on this arc..

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7413787-post118.html

Not even interested in being cross-examined by someone who trolls and ignores others..

BTW: when you quote me.. DON"T EDIT THE QUOTE.. Makes it look like YOURE DOING MORE WORK, then you really are...
And that's another dishonest practice you have here..

 

[westwall]

I think it's fairly clear to any honest person that the issues with wind and tidal and wildlife are more teething problems than anything game changing.

With tidal I understand the issues are close to being resolved, and also with wind there are few problems in areas that do not have majaor bat populations.

You are batshit ******* crazy if you think that. Windmills, in a SINGLE year have killed more animals than ALL OF THE MAN MADE OIL SPILLS EVER! And you think it's a teething problem....

You are not interested in saving anything except your collectivist state. YOU are only interested in who you can control.


You have now proven beyond doubt that you too are nothing more than a troll. A mindless internet twerp with no ******* brains, just a MS DOS program that you run whenever your controller presses the ENTER key.

 

[westwall]

Flac -

And yet you still have not answered my question about the environmental problems with traditional forms of energy production.

It is one thing to rightly point out the issues with hydro or tidal - another to keep dodging the much more severe problems with coal or even nuclear.

Windfarms kill orders of magnitude more every year than all the critter deaths caused by big oil for it's whole history. When are you going to address that?

Why should anyone try to address that stupidity?

Prove me wrong asshat.

 

[westwall]

I'm seeing some record fast backpedaling on the "wind farms decimate raptors!" stupidity. Same old story. Denialists spout hysterical crap, get called on it, and so spout more crap as a smokescreen to cover their retreat.

Oh, the cat/bird studies are some major junk science, making wild claims about each cat killing hundreds of birds each year. They list tallies of _billions_ of birds killed each year, something like about half the total bird population of North America. Yes, supposedly around half of the birds in the USA are eaten by cats each year. It's just crazy.

See, birds fly. That makes them really hard for a cat to catch. Oh, the cats try, but rarely succeed, and usually end up having to eat grasshoppers and cicadas. My cat tries her best to get those birds, and gets about 2 a year. And those are worthless invasive house sparrows, the killing of which is a good thing.

Nobody has backtracked anything asshat. Keep on dreaming your little dream.

EDIT: Actually, check that...the WARMISTS have backtracked a whole bunch lately. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[westwall]

Flac -

And yet you still have not answered my question about the environmental problems with traditional forms of energy production.

It is one thing to rightly point out the issues with hydro or tidal - another to keep dodging the much more severe problems with coal or even nuclear.

You have been badgering me and trolling me incessantly here.. I went LAST on this arc..

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7413787-post118.html

Not even interested in being cross-examined by someone who trolls and ignores others..

BTW: when you quote me.. DON"T EDIT THE QUOTE.. Makes it look like YOURE DOING MORE WORK, then you really are...
And that's another dishonest practice you have here..

saggy is a lying troll of the first order.