The global jihad is alive and well

[Anguille]

When Christian extremists bomb and abortion clinic, and radical fundamentalist Christians applaud, I judge those supporters to be supporters of terror. When Islamists attack the heart of a country's financial district with training and funds from Islamic countries, I judge those countries to be supporters of terror.


What percentage of Islamics do you believe are mainstream and liberal?

Look out!! Here come da Judge!

 

[catzmeow]

Those numbers don't surprise me. I would expect high numbers if you polled any religious youth group, younger people tend to be more fanatical.

So, you believe that if you polled college students in the U.S., 33% of Christians would tell you that it is acceptable to kill for their faith? REALLY. You really think this?

 

[Navy1960]

SURA 4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire;
so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

3.85: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

3.118: O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people; they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.

Tell me again of the liberal Islam I want to know where it is so that I may find in it a tolerant and accepting religion that does not make war against it's neighbor and send it's young people to do the bidding of old men into market places filled with innocents killing them all in the name of that religion. While these extremists are no better than dogs and the people they represent are no better than the scum of the earth and foster hatred around the world much to the pain of many innocent lives, do not suffer from the illusion that Islam is tolerant of anything other than Islam. While some nation states may be toleraant all in the name of being good members of the World community if you are not Muslim even in these so called liberal Islamic states you will find that your rights are limited there as well. When people begin to understand that religion should be allowed to be practiced freely and openly the world over without fear of judgement and forced upon others then perhaps one day parents will not have to hear of a childs death only because they made the decision to get on the wrong bus to go to school or visit a classmate.

 

[Amanda]

Very well said and on point.

Thank you. And I agree horrific things have been done in the name of Christianity. I think that many people have used Christianity (and many other religions) to justify their own agendas. I don't think Jesus would approve of many of the things done in his name in the past or even the present. But I'm only responsible for me, so I try really hard to be faithful to what I believe was the message Jesus wanted us to have.

 

[WillowTree]

So, you believe that if you polled college students in the U.S., 33% of Christians would tell you that it is acceptable to kill for their faith? REALLY. You really think this?

I'm listening carefully for her answer!

 

[catzmeow]

I'm listening carefully for her answer!

Gosh, I love a hopeless optimist. I predict she lets this one slide right by and responsds with some hippy dippy "all cultures are equally wonderful and beautiful" nonsense.

 

[FireGod]

There were centuries of peace before the English Empire decided to take over.

******* Brits just can't leave anything alone

 

[Amanda]

So, you believe that if you polled college students in the U.S., 33% of Christians would tell you that it is acceptable to kill for their faith? REALLY. You really think this?

Maybe. I dunno. I wonder if you polled US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan how many would say they are Christians. 33%? or maybe a little higher? I think a lot of it depends how you think of the question. I don't think you'd have any trouble at all getting numbers a lot higher than 33% if US Christians felt threatened by an outside power. I've heard the boys at church talk. Heck, I've heard my father and brothers talk. I know how strongly they feel. I don't have to seek out Muslims to hear fanatics talk about what they would like to do.

 

[Clay Buster]

For the most part, yes. If you can show me areas in which these types of activities are still occurring, I'll be happy to denounce them and urge christians to do the same.

Here are just five extremist Christian groups that have perpetrated acts of terrorism in the name of Jesus Christ in recent memory.

This list can go on, but I hope you get the point.

By this logic in this thread, I should denounce all of Christianity based on their actions and the lack of action from other Christians in denouncing these attrocities.



If these aren't enough groups, just let me know and I'll keep adding to the list.

• The Army of God is an anti-abortion terrorist organization which holds that their activity is lawful and theologically justified: using deadly force to end abortion in the United States.Their ultimate goal is to establish a Christian theocracy through violence, and the group claims that the murder of doctors who perform medical abortions is "justifiable homicide,” exemplifying the group’s evolving philosophy from violence against property to violence against individuals.

• The anti-federalist, extremist tax-resistance movements, seditious beliefs, religious and racial hatred of the American militia movement and other contemporary white supremacist organizations in association with the broader Christian Patriot movement actively incorporate Christian scripture and biblical liturgy to justify and support violent activities. Timothy McVeigh who, along with his accomplice Terry Nichols, carried out the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, has admitted to a belief in Christian Patriotism and involvement in Patriot activities.

• On July 26, 2007, 17 Christians from Poso, Indonesia, were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law. Fourteen year sentences were given to two of the seventeen for their main roles in the killings, while ten were sentenced to twelve year terms. Five were convicted in separate hearings and received eight year sentences for their part in the "acts of terrorism by the use of violence."

• The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) is a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India. The NLFT were declared a terrorist organization under the Indian Prevention of Terrorism Act in 2002. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.

• The Nagaland Rebels is a coalition of rebel groups operating in Nagaland, North-East India. The largest of these is the National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM), which is fighting for the establishment of a "Nagaland for Christ".The NSCN-IM have carried out numerous acts of terrorism against the Indian Army, other ethnic groups, and opponents within their own ethnic group.

 

[Gord]

By these same standards, Christianity is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism the world has ever seen.

From its earliest days, Christianity was all about killing people. From the Crusades to the Inquisition, history is filled with hate and destruction fueled in the name of a Christian God.

Fast forward to modern Christianity and you encounter the Reformation.

Fast forward some more and Christians are blowing up abortion clinics and shooting doctors.

ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD.

Ironic isn't it?

I will glady denounce all of Islam for the actions of a few when many on this board denounce all of Christianity and it's brutal history because of the actions of a few.

I graduated college with minor in history and I made it a point to take as many "History of Christianity" classes as I could.

Not because I am a big believer, but because the Christians always killed a ton of people which made reading all that crap interesting.

For a religion of peace and love, Christians are some evil mothers.

Secular mass murderers: book Death by Government R.J. Rummel

Josef Stalin 42,672,000
Mao Zedong 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo 3,990,000
Pol Pot 2,397,000


How many people have Christians killed?

 

[catzmeow]

Here are just five extremist Christian groups that have perpetrated acts of terrorism in the name of Jesus Christ in recent memory.

How many people have they killed, in comparison to Islamic terrorists?

 

[Clay Buster]

Secular mass murderers: book Death by Government R.J. Rummel

Josef Stalin 42,672,000
Mao Zedong 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo 3,990,000
Pol Pot 2,397,000


How many people have Christians killed?

That's hard to say. Would you like to venture a guess?

It only encompasses two thousand years of killing so it should be easy to come up with an answer.

And are you saying that being killed by someone claiming they are doing it in the name of God is better than being killed by someone who simply is killing you for their own evil reason?

I love the argument that, "Well they killed more than we did."

How many killings are OK?

At what point does the value of life actually kick in?

 

[Clay Buster]

How many people have they killed, in comparison to Islamic terrorists?

Once again, when does the value of a human life kick in?

Is it OK to kill 100, but not 1,000?

At what point do you become a terrorist?

If I kill 5 people in the name of a Christian God is that terrorism?

What if I kill 1 person in the name of Allah? Is that terrorism?

 

[WillowTree]

That's hard to say. Would you like to venture a guess?

It only encompasses two thousand years of killing so it should be easy to come up with an answer.

And are you saying that being killed by someone claiming they are doing it in the name of God is better than being killed by someone who simply is killing you for their own evil reason?

I love the argument that, "Well they killed more than we did."

How many killings are OK?

At what point does the value of life actually kick in?

we surely don't know "It's above our paygrade."

 

[Amanda]

Gosh, I love a hopeless optimist. I predict she lets this one slide right by and responsds with some hippy dippy "all cultures are equally wonderful and beautiful" nonsense.

So? Did I surprise you or no?

 

[Gord]

That's hard to say. Would you like to venture a guess?

It only encompasses two thousand years of killing so it should be easy to come up with an answer.

And are you saying that being killed by someone claiming they are doing it in the name of God is better than being killed by someone who simply is killing you for their own evil reason?

I love the argument that, "Well they killed more than we did."

How many killings are OK?

At what point does the value of life actually kick in?

My list only includes the last hundred years. Any measures before the Age of Enlightenment would not be of much use because pretty much everyone killed everyone. That was the way of the world for the most part. But even if you go back to the Inquisition of the 15 and 1600's only about 1,000 people were executed.

So where does that leave us? Well I know of no modern day Christian mass murderers, so Christians seemed to have learned a lesson from history that secularists and Islam have not.

 

[dilloduck]

Maybe. I dunno. I wonder if you polled US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan how many would say they are Christians. 33%? or maybe a little higher? I think a lot of it depends how you think of the question. I don't think you'd have any trouble at all getting numbers a lot higher than 33% if US Christians felt threatened by an outside power. I've heard the boys at church talk. Heck, I've heard my father and brothers talk. I know how strongly they feel. I don't have to seek out Muslims to hear fanatics talk about what they would like to do.

Our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are not killing for their faith.

 

[Amanda]

Our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are not killing for their faith.

I didn't say they were. I'm saying I bet most of them are Christian and they are there to do killing if it's deemed necessary. I don't think it's a big stretch to imagine they would do the same for their faith. God comes before country where I'm from, maybe it's different in other places.

 

[Clay Buster]

My list only includes the last hundred years. Any measures before the Age of Enlightenment would not be of much use because pretty much everyone killed everyone. That was the way of the world for the most part. But even if you go back to the Inquisition of the 15 and 1600's only about 1,000 people were executed.

So where does that leave us? Well I know of no modern day Christian mass murderers, so Christians seemed to have learned a lesson from history that secularists and Islam have not.

So once again we are back to the "this religion doesn't kill quite as many as that religion does" argument.

Interesting stance but do you think the families of the "dozens" of people killed by Christian terrorists feel any better about it than the families of the "thousands" killed by Islamic terrorists?

Look, I understand that there are more people being killed by Islamic radicals than Christian radicals at this moment in time.

But my point is religious whack jobs, of all shades, are all just that, whack jobs.

I would like to think that we as a people can form a more educated opinion on the matter and realize that nothing in this world is a simple black and white issue.

To say billions of Muslims are complacent and secretly cheering these vile terrorist acts is simply crap.

If this was true, I would think with so many Muslims in the world there would actually be more terrorist attacks than there are.

If your "bible" says you must kill those who do not believe, and all Muslims believe this, I would think the number of casualties would be much higher.

So I guess the majority of the Muslim world will not get their virgins in paradise since they are not all rampaging killers.

 

[Gord]

So once again we are back to the "this religion doesn't kill quite as many as that religion does" argument.

Interesting stance but do you think the families of the "dozens" of people killed by Christian terrorists feel any better about it than the families of the "thousands" killed by Islamic terrorists?

Look, I understand that there are more people being killed by Islamic radicals than Christian radicals at this moment in time.

But my point is religious whack jobs, of all shades, are all just that, whack jobs.

I would like to think that we as a people can form a more educated opinion on the matter and realize that nothing in this world is a simple black and white issue.

To say billions of Muslims are complacent and secretly cheering these vile terrorist acts is simply crap.

If this was true, I would think with so many Muslims in the world there would actually be more terrorist attacks than there are.

If your "bible" says you must kill those who do not believe, and all Muslims believe this, I would think the number of casualties would be much higher.

So I guess the majority of the Muslim world will not get their virgins in paradise since they are not all rampaging killers.

Look I understand that you really want to find a way to paint Christianity as being morally equivalent to secularism or Islam, but the numbers don't support you. Christianity has been a peaceful religion for centuries. Secularism and Islam are not remotely comparable. Just those on the list I posted murdered a total of 122,000,000 people. Chistianity is not even in that league...