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The Federal Government needs to be put back on its Constitutional leash.

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That seems to be a right wing talking point. My politician buddy who now has to defend pro life (when he was always pro choice), is now telling us that we need to read the constitution.

Ha! As if you idiots have. And even if you have, you are interpreting it weird. You are reading it like radical right wing nutjobs.

Ok then. We'll try it your way for awhile. See how it works out. You just killed a bunch of woman to save some seeds. Creeps.
Those who claim to be defending the Constitution are not standing in from of the Constitution, protecting it. They are hiding behind it, hoping people do not notice how weak their arguments are.

I never use Constitutional arguments. Instead I explain why what I advocate is reasonable.
 

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Correct. Most Americans are statists. Have been for generations. That doesnt mean its right.
There should be NO shortcuts for a centralized government. Do people not know our(human) history?
Goddamn, our Founders died in vain.
The "Founders" were old, rich, white, dead men. Many owned slaves. At the time the Constitution was ratified the population of the U.S. was a fraction of what it is now. Those over rated Founders were intelligent, and well educated for their time. We should not assume that they could predict what is best for us now.
 

TNHarley

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The "Founders" were old, rich, white, dead men. Many owned slaves. At the time the Constitution was ratified the population of the U.S. was a fraction of what it is now. Those over rated Founders were intelligent, and well educated for their time. We should not assume that they could predict what is best for us now.
They were dead? lol
Of course they couldnt. Thats why they made an amendment process.
 

sealybobo

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Nope. You should try reading it sometime.

Section. 8.​

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I bet you imposts and excises are not uniform throughout the United States.



The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

I bet they exceed $10 today. That's UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!!!!

Oh no!!!!

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

That means if a woman goes to Georgia or California for an abortion, she can be forced to go back to Arkansas to stand tried and be executed for murder.
 

TNHarley

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I bet you imposts and excises are not uniform throughout the United States.
They should be
I bet they exceed $10 today. That's UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!!!
ummm slavery is over, dingbat
That means if a woman goes to Georgia or California for an abortion, she can be forced to go back to Arkansas to stand tried and be executed for murder.
:lol: That is about fleeing prosecution. Not going to get a legal abortion in another state.
 

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They were dead? lol
Of course they couldnt. Thats why they made an amendment process.
The amendment process is too slow to micromanage everything the voters want the government to do.
 
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gmeyers1944

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The United States Constitution was written and signed by rich white men who wished to keep power in the hands of rich white men. The Constitution has lasted as long as it has because interpretations have changed in response to changes in popular opinion.

Is the Constitution a "living document?" That depends on how "living document" is defined. I am opposed to the United States Supreme Court inventing rights that were not intended by the original authors and which are unpopular at the time of their invention. The right of blacks to attend integrated schools was one of these rights. The right to an abortion is another of these rights.

My interpretation of the Constitution is fairly simple: unless the Constitution clearly says something, We should assume that the Constitution is silent on the matter, and leave it up to the voters.
I disagree with the statement that you claim that the writers/signers of the Constitution wanted power to remain in the hands of rich white men. Many of these men opposed slavery but realized that they needed the support of slave supporters for the sake of the nation. They knew that slavery would be dealt with later. It was. After the Civil War Amendments XIII thru XV were passed. Amendment XIII ended slavery. Amendment XIV established that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside......". Amendment XV established "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied.......".

The right to an abortion is an invented right. The right of any citizen to attend a school or vote (among others) is not invented. They are the rights of all citizens.
 

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They should be

ummm slavery is over, dingbat

:lol: That is about fleeing prosecution. Not going to get a legal abortion in another state.
I thought they were talking about immigrants. LOL. Didn't know that was about slaves. Oops.

IDK about this one though.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

To me I can see Arkansas saying it's murder even if you took the baby to California and aborted it. I'm not buying your argument. I say Arkansas will say you took that baby across state lines to murder it. And with this new Supreme Court, they will also make that a federal crime for crossing state lines. Don't be naive.
 

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sealybobo

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They should be

ummm slavery is over, dingbat

:lol: That is about fleeing prosecution. Not going to get a legal abortion in another state.
You know what? I sort of agree with the Supreme's and conservatives that we've gotten away from the constitution. The more I listen to you guys, the more I'm in favor of us going back to being STRICT constitutionalists. To roll back bad policies that are quite frankly, probably unconstitutional.

Like I don't like the Supreme's taking the EPA's power away. I think that's a bad decision. But honestly? The power they have, only congress should have that power. What if it were an agency I didn't like and it had too much power? Just because I like the EPA doesn't mean it's right to give them more power than they should have.

And ultimately, if the congress isn't cleaning up the planet, it's up to us to vote them out and put in politicians who will pass pro EPA type laws that will clean up the planet.
 

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The amendment process is too slow to micromanage everything the voters want the government to do.
Thats why states had all the power.
Unchecked power arises tyranny.
Like the general welfare clause; if we go by what statists THINKS it means, Congress could do whatever it wanted. Of course, that phrase actually means they can promotoe a general welfare by just using the powers granted(keeping the states in check, roads etc)... But what if Congress decided the "general welfare" of the people would be to kill off all old people because they were a fiscal drain? Or did like China, and make parents only bare one child?
All of this was for a reason.
 

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I thought they were talking about immigrants. LOL. Didn't know that was about slaves. Oops.

IDK about this one though.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

To me I can see Arkansas saying it's murder even if you took the baby to California and aborted it. I'm not buying your argument. I say Arkansas will say you took that baby across state lines to murder it. And with this new Supreme Court, they will also make that a federal crime for crossing state lines. Don't be naive.
The key word is "charged" Which would mean they are fleeing prosecution.
 

sealybobo

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The key word is "charged" Which would mean they are fleeing prosecution.
Well all they have to do is charge them.
This is so sad. It's so obvious that poor women are the only ones who are going to be affected by this bad decision. Women with $2000 will take a trip to another state. So we aren't stopping anyone with money from getting an abortion. And do we really want these poor women to have more babies?

What are we doing???
 
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gmeyers1944

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This is the Tenth Amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

The Supreme Court has had the good sense to ignore the Tenth Amendment. A reactionary Supreme Court could use the Tenth Amendment to overturn much of the popular legislation passed since the inauguration of Teddy Roosevelt in 1902.
No amendment should be ignored. Either enforce it or pass another amendment to repeal it as in prohibition. Much of the legislation passed since the inauguration of Teddy Roosevelt is unconstitutional.
 

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Well all they have to do is charge them.
This is so sad. It's so obvious that poor women are the only ones who are going to be affected by this bad decision. Women with $2000 will take a trip to another state. So we aren't stopping anyone with money from getting an abortion. And do we really want these poor women to have more babies?

What are we doing???
I agree with the ruling, on a strict Constitutional basis. It should be left up to the states. The SC just made up that "right"
If Congress wanted to codify it, they should have, instead of using it as fear porn for campaign season.
 
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gmeyers1944

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The "Founders" were old, rich, white, dead men. Many owned slaves. At the time the Constitution was ratified the population of the U.S. was a fraction of what it is now. Those over rated Founders were intelligent, and well educated for their time. We should not assume that they could predict what is best for us now.
That is why they allowed the Constitution to be amended!
 

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The right to an abortion is an invented right. The right of any citizen to attend a school or vote (among others) is not invented. They are the rights of all citizens.
I agree that everyone in the United States should have access to free public school education. The Constitution says nothing about that however. When it was ratified there were only private schools. If your parents did not have the money to send you to private school, you probably remained illiterate all of your life.

As far as integrated schools are concerned, I feel an ambivalence for them I feel for many issues and political leaders. I like ambivalence. It prevents fanaticism. Blacks never made up as much as five percent of the student bodies of any of the schools I attended. That gave me an unrealistically benign image of them. I have heard from whites who attended black majority public schools. The schools were dangerous places where little learning happened. They were particularly dangerous for the whites and Asians who attended.

When blacks represent a small minority most try to behave. When they are in the majority most behave the way they want to behave. Many do not want to behave well.

At any rate, and contrary to the Brown vs Board of Education Supreme Court Decision of 1954, there is nothing in the Constitution that mandates racially integrated schools.

Currently, schools are nearly as segregated as as they were before the Brown decision. That is not an accident. It is because white parents do not want their children to attend schools with lots of blacks in them. This is true of liberal white parents too.
 

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The amendment process is deliberately slow so that hopefully most (if not all) unadvised but popular changes can be prevented!
We do not have time for every single law passed by Congress to become a Constitutional amendment.
 
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gmeyers1944

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Well all they have to do is charge them.
This is so sad. It's so obvious that poor women are the only ones who are going to be affected by this bad decision. Women with $2000 will take a trip to another state. So we aren't stopping anyone with money from getting an abortion. And do we really want these poor women to have more babies?

What are we doing???
You haven't been paying attention! Many states have proposed, or already passed, laws to pay for poor people to travel to obtain an abortion.
 

TNHarley

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We do not have time for every single law passed by Congress to become a Constitutional amendment.
Why do so many laws come have to come from the fed gov? Wouldnt states do it better? People in TN live different than people in NY etc.
 

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