Hi NT,
An excellent and well argued post. I will not post again until a bit later due to the fact that I am racing in a regatta in your fair country.
Originally posted by NightTrain
Where are they [WMD] now? I don't know. You can bet that Israel is actively trying to find that out - they want to know where they went probably more than we do.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that Saddam didn't have his WMD playtoys - otherwise, why would he play the games he played? It wasn't just the USA that said he had them - every nation involved in the UNSC knew they had them, and demanded that he comply with resolutions for inspections. The whole world watched that cat-and-mouse game.
Besides, another fact that seems to get overlooked is that he had them and used them in the past. Documented fact. No country that I'm aware of has ever acquired WMDs and later washed its hands of them.
I agree with most of what you are saying. I have no doubt that Iraq once had WMD. His chemical program was well known prior to the gulf war and I know he used them on the Kurdish population to the North as well as, if memory serves, Iran during the Iran and Iraq war. Use of WMD is abhorrent in my mind as well as I would imagine the vast majority of Canadians in any circumstance. However, the US did invade Iraq once in what i would say was a completely just war and the US did dismantle much of that program. It is truly a shame that your country did not remove Saddam and that Ba'athists at that moment, but that is a completely seperate and unrelated matter to discuss.
Does the fact that he did have them logically insist that he has them now? Well the only answer can be no, since althought the past is an excellent indicator of the future, it is not magical orb that can see into it. In a lot of ways, the whole question and debate will be stalemated for at least the foreseable future. I don't think at this moment you can truly say without a doubt that yes, Saddam had WMD at the time of the invastion, but nor can I say that he did not. History will undoubtably prove one of us right someday and then we will indeed see if the pretext was warrented.
So I guess the next question I will ask to you is whether the Iraq war will make the US any more secure or the lives of Iraqis any better. Perhaps, it is too soon to lay judgement or even speculate for that matter, but as a pure gut feeling with perhaps some context in history I would say that the US certainly fanned the flames of anti-americanism not only in the middle-east or with muslims, but also will fellow allies. Regardless of right or wrong, the US's decision to go at it without international cooperation from the majority of its main allies, leaves its in an akward strategic situation.
In a lot of sense it has polarized the western world. On one hand you have France, Germany and Russia who seemed to have formed a bond around opposing the US action, then there's Britain, who's people are, as i understand, mostly against the invasion, althought their government-elect is not. Then there are countries like Canada who admittedly are sitting on the fence. On the ideological side, we are much like the Europeans, opposed to the war based on principle (which I can go into if you do not understand), but then again our bond with America is longlasting and all encompasing. Essentially the Iraq war took all what was stable in the world, tossed in up, and created a new world dynamic.
I won't even go into the revenge attacks by extremists that will no doubtably increase. So i guess in a nutshell, i think war will make things worse for america in the long run, but i am looking forward to what you think. And yes, i have forgotten to mention the Iraqi people, but time is running short.
Was Iraq a greater threat than Iran? Yep. But, they're still dirty, and everyone knows it. With any luck, the democracy next door will take care of the Iran problem from within.
North Korea? I don't know. There wasn't evidence that I'm aware of with NK conspiring with known terrorists - let alone one that ended up flying an airliner into the WTC. However, NK is going to require a little bit different of an approach, for obvious reasons. It's a more dangerous animal, to be sure, and they haven't been forgotten. They're under a microscope, and have been ever since they admitted they'd been lying about their nuclear program.
Why not the other 'evil' countries? One at a time
Well, I simply disagree what you think your greatest threat is, but then again, I am not american. This is especially due to the fact that i truly don't believe Iraq had a "significant" terrorist link. If you guys are truly worried about terrorism, go after the anti-american Theocracies such as Iran. That's not to mention the radical anti-americanism that is taught to many lower-class Saudi Arabians is government funded (though not always controlled) schools.
As far as your EPA argument goes.. I've always been of the opinon that things are always more fair all the way around when dealt with on a local level. If there's an industry that's being irresponsible, then there is room for improvement in State laws - which are almost always implemented faster than the Federal beauracracy can manage.
A differing opinion than mine, but i see where you're coming from and i agree in many situations (ie watershed issues, forestation), but in my opinion some controls, especially environmental regulations with area/region effects should be controlled federally.
Amen.
But I don't see any other course of action that's feasible other than the course we're on right now. We didn't ask for the mission to eradicate militant muslims, it landed in our lap. Literally. There's only one language those animals understand, and that's brute force.
Eight years of a weak President led up to this, and now we're paying for his weakness in spades. [/B]
Just remember, every cause has an effect and though i find militant muslim terrorists (or christian, jewish, hindu and sikh) abhorrent, though sometime force is required, the US must find away to not only treat the symptoms of terrorisms, but the US and the world in general for that matter, must find away to root out the cause of terrorism.
And once again... forgive my spelling and grammar... i simply must sleep. Cheers
