The End of the Christian Right

[Dr.Drock]

Grandma, eat another sugar cookie and shut up. 3 of 4 Americans identify as Christian. Whether that are "really" Christian is not in your providence to decide. You made a weak-headed comment by somebody who should know better.

They may say they're christians but they are not. I can say I'm a supermodel, does my saying it make it so?

If you want to be a christian, fine, be one. But f you aren't a real one then you aren't one at all.

And there's probably some people who say they aren't, but are.

Can't use that argument to benefit one side of an equation.

 

[Grandma]

Actually America is not overwhelmingly christian.

There is a large number of christians, yes, but not overwhelming.

You see, many Americans are christian in name only, by such I mean that their parents claimed to be christian, but other than for weddings never set foot in a church, and while there may have been a Bible in the home, no one ever bothered reading it. There are in fact generations of so-called christians that are no more christian than they are communist Chinese.

A christian is defined by more than a belief in a single deity, one that is male. Several religions follow that belief, so simply declaring a belief in God is not enough. A christian is expected to attend services, at the very least on high holy days, such as Easter and Christmas, but many that claim to be christians do not go to church at all. A christian is expected to live in a prescribed manner, outlined by the Ten Commandments, the Book of Proverbs, and the teachings of Jesus, but they do not, in fact they have little knowledge of those guidelines.

Very few "christians" have any knowledge of any religion. Often their ideas of spiritual discipline are more closely related to other religions.

The claim to christianity by far too many is no more than superstition-based.

Religion, incidentally is defined as "spiritual discipline." Perhaps the path you follow is not the best path to train your individual soul.

Wow, a lot of bigotry, no information or supporting evidence.

Bigotry? I'm pointing out that many people are making false claims about their choice of spiritual discipline. If I said they were somehow "less than" as human beings that would validate your statement.

You want supporting evidence? Look up your own city's demographics. Note the number of people claiming to be christian. Subtract the number living in nursing homes. Go to every christian church and ask how many attended Christmas service. Add the numbers up. Subtract the total from the modified demographic total. Do it again right after Easter just to be sure.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If the USA were to practice absolute secularism, are extreme right Christians concerned more with the impact on their religion or their country?

If one wants to know the impact on the country that your agenda has, we need only look at North Korea.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I am aware of our history. In time, not tomorrow and not soon, one day the change will occur. This is, of course. my opinion.

Thanks Herr Marx! Keep the dream alive....

 

[Katzndogz]

I want to add here, that this business of predicting America's decline and fall as a result of the disappearance of the Christian right is a predictable fall-back position.

But here's another thing to consider. It's true (if IMO entirely coincidental) that the Western Roman Empire fell within 150 years after abandoning their traditional religion and embracing Christianity instead. But it is not true that, after the fall of the Western Empire, the traditional religion made a comeback. Today, Rome is the capital of the Italian Republic, a country that remains overwhelmingly Catholic Christian in its religious beliefs.

As evidence that this temporal proximity was purely coincidental, the Eastern Empire adopted Christianity at the same time as the West, and did not fall until 1453.

It's just pure unfiltered fearmongering.

Katz isn't bitching about morals going away, he's bitching that the group of people who's morals are different than his is growing.

So it's not his patriotic fear of the downfall of america, it's his incredible arrogance that unless everyone has the same morals as he does than they're all doomed.

I never said any such thing and I am NOT a "HE".

I am not bitching about anything. Merely pointing out that without a shared moral foundation, nations fracture and collapse. The people cease to care enough about each other to support the country. It is cultural alienation, not people whose morals are different. Democrats have no morals. If they had morals and violated them they would be immoral. They have none so they are amoral.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You forget you’re addressing a conservative, for whom the truth is irrelevant.

Unintentional irony is just the bestist kind!

Correct.

Indeed, the realization of a secular America means greater religious freedom for all, where the First Amendment is understood and implemented as intended by the Framers.

You have a dream of nice little camps where those who hold ideas not approved by the state can be concentrated to practice their religion as they please, away from the general public. As their labor requirements permit, of course.

 

[Grandma]

Exactly where do you get the idea that democrats are amoral? You are either gravely misinformed or lying.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Exactly where do you get the idea that democrats are amoral? You are either gravely misinformed or lying.

This forum is a good start.

Come on, your party has waged a 50 year war on integrity and ethics. In counter-culture terms, "truth" is an utterance that serves the party. A democrat stating "the truth," in no way indicates that what they say is factual or accurate.

 

[Katzndogz]

Exactly where do you get the idea that democrats are amoral? You are either gravely misinformed or lying.

I cannot find a single issue on which democrats have exhibited any morality other than relative morality adjusted to suit the circumstances.

If anything, democrats prove they are amoral by taking the word Freedom, which requires a concommitant responsiblity, and conflating it with License that requires no responsibiity whatsoever.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I want to add here, that this business of predicting America's decline and fall as a result of the disappearance of the Christian right is a predictable fall-back position.

But here's another thing to consider. It's true (if IMO entirely coincidental) that the Western Roman Empire fell within 150 years after abandoning their traditional religion and embracing Christianity instead. But it is not true that, after the fall of the Western Empire, the traditional religion made a comeback. Today, Rome is the capital of the Italian Republic, a country that remains overwhelmingly Catholic Christian in its religious beliefs.

As evidence that this temporal proximity was purely coincidental, the Eastern Empire adopted Christianity at the same time as the West, and did not fall until 1453.

It's just pure unfiltered fearmongering.

Katz isn't bitching about morals going away, he's bitching that the group of people who's morals are different than his is growing.

So it's not his patriotic fear of the downfall of america, it's his incredible arrogance that unless everyone has the same morals as he does than they're all doomed.

I never said any such thing and I am NOT a "HE".

I am not bitching about anything. Merely pointing out that without a shared moral foundation, nations fracture and collapse. The people cease to care enough about each other to support the country. It is cultural alienation, not people whose morals are different. Democrats have no morals. If they had morals and violated them they would be immoral. They have none so they are amoral.

Oh i see, it's just hysterical partisan bullshit.

Neither the democrat party nor the republican party have any morals.

John McCain? Newt Gingrich? These men and their performances as husbands is what makes you think only one party has serious morality issues?

 

[Katzndogz]

John McCain?????

You still believe that lie?????

To democrats lying is about the most moral thing you can do. For all what he DID do, I never heard Gingrich deny he did anything.

Christians will NOT support a nation whose foundation is rotted into amorality. The divisions already quite deep and very wide, will get wider and deeper. This is what happens historically and one of the main reasons why civilizations that become degenerate collapse.

Liberals like to think they are in the majority. Just like OWS liked to think they represented the 99%. Neither is true. Hypothetically lets accept that. Liberals are in the majority, but it would be bare majority. When liberal issues come up for vote they always lose, but just for fun let's say they have a plurality. It isn't enough of a plurality to keep the country together as it collapses around them.,

You assume that Christians would fight to preseve same sex marriage, and pay with their lives to maintain the right of abortion, and all the other pet liberal projects. Nope, it's not going to happen. What has a greater chance of happening is that the Christians find an ally outside the United States and join them in bringing out the end of this once great, but no longer good nation,

 

[Dr.Drock]

John McCain?????

You still believe that lie?????

To democrats lying is about the most moral thing you can do. For all what he DID do, I never heard Gingrich deny he did anything.

Christians will NOT support a nation whose foundation is rotted into amorality. The divisions already quite deep and very wide, will get wider and deeper. This is what happens historically and one of the main reasons why civilizations that become degenerate collapse.

Liberals like to think they are in the majority. Just like OWS liked to think they represented the 99%. Neither is true. Hypothetically lets accept that. Liberals are in the majority, but it would be bare majority. When liberal issues come up for vote they always lose, but just for fun let's say they have a plurality. It isn't enough of a plurality to keep the country together as it collapses around them.,

You assume that Christians would fight to preseve same sex marriage, and pay with their lives to maintain the right of abortion, and all the other pet liberal projects. Nope, it's not going to happen. What has a greater chance of happening is that the Christians find an ally outside the United States and join them in bringing out the end of this once great, but no longer good nation,

Fine, I won't even push the John McCain infidelity that even Hannity admits happened.

I'm not the one making assumptions, you are. This entire post is nothing but assumptions. I have no idea why you're going off on a liberal tangent, I'm a million times more conservative than you. The republican party is lightyears too liberal for me.

My only point is republicans are given a group of candidates, and will likely pick the one with the worst morals (Newt) who breaks one of the 10 commandments every day (adultery). Jesus said divorce and remarriage is adultery, and Newt's done it twice.

Don't get the wrong idea, I don't care much about the private lifestyle of leaders. If my boss cheats on his wife but runs a good company i'll take it, same with the president.

I vote neither D nor R.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually America is not overwhelmingly christian.

There is a large number of christians, yes, but not overwhelming.

You see, many Americans are christian in name only, by such I mean that their parents claimed to be christian, but other than for weddings never set foot in a church, and while there may have been a Bible in the home, no one ever bothered reading it. There are in fact generations of so-called christians that are no more christian than they are communist Chinese.

A christian is defined by more than a belief in a single deity, one that is male. Several religions follow that belief, so simply declaring a belief in God is not enough. A christian is expected to attend services, at the very least on high holy days, such as Easter and Christmas, but many that claim to be christians do not go to church at all. A christian is expected to live in a prescribed manner, outlined by the Ten Commandments, the Book of Proverbs, and the teachings of Jesus, but they do not, in fact they have little knowledge of those guidelines.

Very few "christians" have any knowledge of any religion. Often their ideas of spiritual discipline are more closely related to other religions.

The claim to christianity by far too many is no more than superstition-based.

Religion, incidentally is defined as "spiritual discipline." Perhaps the path you follow is not the best path to train your individual soul.

Wow, a lot of bigotry, no information or supporting evidence.

Bigotry? I'm pointing out that many people are making false claims about their choice of spiritual discipline. If I said they were somehow "less than" as human beings that would validate your statement.

You want supporting evidence? Look up your own city's demographics. Note the number of people claiming to be christian. Subtract the number living in nursing homes. Go to every christian church and ask how many attended Christmas service. Add the numbers up. Subtract the total from the modified demographic total. Do it again right after Easter just to be sure.

Ok, that's unmitigated claptrap, besides being bigoted.

What does the number of Christmas service attendees and nursing home residents have to do with false Christianity?

 

[Dragon]

I am not bitching about anything. Merely pointing out that without a shared moral foundation, nations fracture and collapse.

The decline of the Christian right means we DO have a shared moral foundation. Just not the one you, personally, believe in. If the Christian right were still strong, it would mean we DIDN'T have a shared moral foundation, because our moral/religious/cultural regime would still be in dispute.

 

[Gadawg73]

And the Founders were the ones that started this moral Christian nation.
Those dudes that were smugglers, drank liquor at a rate per capita higher than any other time in this country, owned the largest breweries in the land, were tax evaders, owned- bred- bought and sold slaves, fucked their own slaves and kept some and sold others and were very good customers of the ladies of the night.
The good and moral Christian right men they were.

Are you saying they didn't found a great nation, with great principles?

Please find me a nation, in the history of man, that has been more successful, more free.

It's funny it's the non-Christians who have this warped notion that only "pure" people have good ideas. What's up with that?

It is funny how you continue to label anyone and everyone a "non Christian" for offering an opinion other than yours.

 

[Gadawg73]

How am I non Christian in any way?

 

[Katzndogz]

I am not bitching about anything. Merely pointing out that without a shared moral foundation, nations fracture and collapse.

The decline of the Christian right means we DO have a shared moral foundation. Just not the one you, personally, believe in. If the Christian right were still strong, it would mean we DIDN'T have a shared moral foundation, because our moral/religious/cultural regime would still be in dispute.

It is in dispute which is where the divisions in this country come from. Surely you can't be saying that we are a strong and united nation! That's more than delusional.

We are more divided today than we were during either the Civil War or the Revolutionary war.

If you want to personally think that Divided we Stand, the fall will come as a complete surprise.

 

[Dragon]

It is in dispute which is where the divisions in this country come from. Surely you can't be saying that we are a strong and united nation! That's more than delusional.

Our divisions aren't about morality anymore. In that sense, we are a strong and united nation. We still have very strong divisions, but they are political and economic, not moral or spiritual.

 

[Uncensored2008]

How am I non Christian in any way?

Yeah!

I mean, you're no more anti-Christian than Sunni Man is anti-Jew.....

 

[koshergrl]

How am I non Christian in any way?

I was fairly convinced you weren't Christian based upon your statements in threads discussing Christianity. Do you believe Christ is the risen son of God?

If so, obviously, you're a Christian.