The emerging police state in this country

[SuperDemocrat]

I got into this argument with my conservative relatives. What if you were walking home one night and a cop stopped you and asked what you were doing. These are standard questions they would ask someone who is suspicious and I realize that this is necessary for cops to catch criminals but what if the cop wouldn't let you go and held you there for two hours or more? Wouldn't this be a little unfair considering that you haven't done anything illegal in the first place? I have had this happen to me before and cooperated with the police but it just seemed a little 'police state' like since I wasn't even doing anything illegal (such as jay walking) in the first place.

Now we have Snowden who seems to be hated by everyone but I am one person who thinks that this guy is a hero because he might be exposing something that our government is doing without our consent or knowledge. It would be one thing if we all thought it was a good idea for out government to go snooping through our communications without our consent and actually asked our politicians to do so. They then pass a law authorizing them to do so but one has to ask why is our government doing this in secret? They claim that this is legitimate and that the people support them but if that was the case why can't they at least get our permission first and do it out in the open? No one would mind if the people truly supported these actions.

There are other situations such as the war on drugs. In many cases, a person can be punished if they happen to be riding with someone who has drugs with them. That person may not have known about the other person's connection to drugs yet they can be thought of as an accessory. It doesn't seem fair to punish someone who had no idea they were breaking the law.

Another thing to think of is that you can be punished for illegal activity even if you were completely unaware that the law even existed. I don't know why claiming ignorance of the law can't be a legitimate defense in some cases.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

OJ simpson was another example of this. He got away with murder and people said justice wasn't done but it was. He used all the rights given to him in his case to defend himself and these rights exist for everyone. Without them every innocent person accused of a crime would have no chance of defending themselves from the government.

 

[Care4all]

I think their argument is that they did get permission from congress to do such spying, but they are under no obligation to let all of congress know what it is that they are actually doing....they just need to let the House and Senate Select Intelligence Committee members know.

And also their argument would probably be, that telling all of congress and telling all of us as you wish could happen, is ALSO telling all of the Terrorists what the Intelligence communities are doing to find them, which could lead to terrorists, and would be terrorists, to find a way around it.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

I think their argument is that they did get permission from congress to do such spying, but they are under no obligation to let all of congress know what it is that they are actually doing....they just need to let the House and Senate Select Intelligence Committee members know.

And also their argument would probably be, that telling all of congress and telling all of us as you wish could happen, is ALSO telling all of the Terrorists what the Intelligence communities are doing to find them, which could lead to terrorists, and would be terrorists, to find a way around it.

I don't have a problem with specific cases being kept secret. I'm talking about how far do they go in getting information for these cases. THe law and the constitution provides limits and I wonder are they telling people that they only go to the legal limit in getting this information or do they go beyond what they are legally allowed. It is difficult to know if no one knows what is going on in these cases. If they say they only go this far but actually go much farther then they are doing so without our permission.

 

[Care4all]

Was anything found out in the Snowden/Wikileaks?

 

[SuperDemocrat]

Was anything found out in the Snowden/Wikileaks?

I'm not really sure but how can we know for sure if it is done in secret and how can we debate an action our government is taking if we are completely unaware of what those actions are? It is like they are short circuiting the democratic process.

 

[Care4all]

Was anything found out in the Snowden/Wikileaks?

I'm not really sure but how can we know for sure if it is done in secret and how can we debate an action our government is taking if we are completely unaware of what those actions are? It is like they are short circuiting the democratic process.

Well, they are not...I don't remember what President it was, maybe Roosevelt or maybe Truman or Eisenhower, but they created a national security act and put in rules that they could hide things from us...I'm pretty certain it has been challenged in the courts over the decades and apparently is constitutional....but I am not 100% sure...