The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

[boedicca]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the rights to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right to Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

 

[ChrisL]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

the right and priviledge to practice your religious beliefs is a basic constitutional right. It applies to all religions, atheists, and tree huggers. denying the practice of religious beliefs is discrimination

Nobody is preventing you from practicing your religion. The thing is, if you open a business, you cannot discriminate against others based upon that because that too is discrimination. Making any sense to you yet?

 

[boedicca]

Gays are the ultimate hate group.

Look, we get it. You hate the gays.

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

I would take my business elsewhere. See? Ain't Liberty Grand?

 

[The Rabbi]

If you can't sit in the front of the bus, move to the back. It's the law!

Please, if you are going to address my posts, make some kind of sense and don't waste my time.

Sorry, I mistook you from someone with at least 3 functioning brain cells.
Your constant bleating about "it's the law, it's the law" ignores the long tradition of civil disobedience against unjust laws in this country. Rosa Parks is remembered as a hero precisely because she broke the law. The lunch counter sit ins were heroic precisely because they broke the law.
Christian opposition to coerced business transactions is the new civil rights movement of our era.
That cleaer?

It is not an "unjust" law. It applies to everyone. These laws are to make sure the Rosa Parks incidents never happen again in our country. It doesn't just apply to gay people, it applies to you too.

LOL! Sure thing.
Of course it is unjust and oppressive.
Rosa Parks involved a city bus. That's a public institution. You get that, right?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. Try to be more clear. It sounds as if you agree that the Rosa Parks incident was unjust??? That it was wrong to discriminate against her in that way?

If you don't want to associate with gay people or whomever in your personal life, that is fine. You just cannot carry that over into your business practice when you go into a business that serves the public.

Now, what is your objection to gay marriage or baking a cake?

OK I can tell I am not dealing with a PhD here. So I'll explain it using words of 2 syllables or less.
A city bus is owned by the city. It is not a private business. It has no right to discriminate on who it carries or where they can sit.
A private business is just that--private. People should not have to give up their rights of religious freedom and free association just because they offer goods and services to the public. That is tyranny and an offense against private property.
Is that clear enough for your tiny brain?

 

[ChrisL]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

 

[Redfish]

Gays are the ultimate hate group.

Look, we get it. You hate the gays.

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

why would a hetero couple want a gay baker to make their cake? Why would they want to force him, if he objected due to his sexual orientation? The gay baker should be free to only provide his products to other gays if he chooses to so limit his customers.

 

[ChrisL]

Look, we get it. You hate the gays.

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

I would take my business elsewhere. See? Ain't Liberty Grand?

You are entitled to do that, but discrimination in business practices is still against the law. It is a secular law based upon fair business practice, so that we don't have businesses discriminating against individuals, regardless of their belief system.

 

[The Rabbi]

Gays are the ultimate hate group.

Look, we get it. You hate the gays.

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

Only if I complained. Which I wouldn't. I would find a baker who wanted to work with me. And then I would take to the internet and tell everyone I know that this baker discriminated against me and people shouldnt use him.
You understand that I am in favor of people's ability to discriminate in business, even if that means they discriminate against me, right?

 

[ChrisL]

Look, we get it. You hate the gays.

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

why would a hetero couple want a gay baker to make their cake? Why would they want to force him, if he objected due to his sexual orientation? The gay baker should be free to only provide his products to other gays if he chooses to so limit his customers.

Maybe he makes delicious cakes?

Nope, can't do that. It's against the law.

 

[boedicca]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

 

[The Rabbi]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

If you're forced to engage i an activity you would not do otherwise then someone is controlling your life. How do you not see that?

 

[ChrisL]

Look, we get it. You hate the gays.

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

Only if I complained. Which I wouldn't. I would find a baker who wanted to work with me. And then I would take to the internet and tell everyone I know that this baker discriminated against me and people shouldnt use him.
You understand that I am in favor of people's ability to discriminate in business, even if that means they discriminate against me, right?

That's your prerogative. It has nothing to do with the law though. Your personal feelings and beliefs are not what our laws are based upon. Our laws are based upon fair and just business practices that do not discriminate against a certain sector of the public.

 

[JoeB131]

[
neither were the gay couple a religious institution, so what?

what should have happened is:

gay couple: we would like for you to bake us a wedding cake

baker: I do not want to do that because I do not believe in gay marriage, however, Tom the baker down the street is gay and he would be pleased to bake your cake

gay couple: thanks, we respect your beliefs and will go see Tom, have a nice day.

gay couple: we would like for you to bake us a wedding cake

baker: I do not want to do that because I do not believe in gay marriage, however, Tom the baker down the street is gay and he would be pleased to bake your cake

gay couple: Sorry, dude, you are a public accommodation and under the laws of the state of Oregon, you have to serve us.

I think you are a bit confused as to why we have public accommodation laws.

All of us pay for that bakery to be in business. Or as a wise man said, "You didn't build that".

We pay for the police protection, the fire protection, the roads, the utilities, the currency system, and so on. You would not be able to have a business if the rest of us didn't contribute to those bits of civilization that make commerce possible.

Therefore, we show up at your door looking for the service you advertised as providing, you provide that service.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

Only if I complained. Which I wouldn't. I would find a baker who wanted to work with me. And then I would take to the internet and tell everyone I know that this baker discriminated against me and people shouldnt use him.
You understand that I am in favor of people's ability to discriminate in business, even if that means they discriminate against me, right?

That's your prerogative. It has nothing to do with the law though. Your personal feelings and beliefs are not what our laws are based upon. Our laws are based upon fair and just business practices that do not discriminate against a certain sector of the public.

No offense but you're becoming redundant

 

[ChrisL]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

 

[boedicca]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

If you're forced to engage i an activity you would not do otherwise then someone is controlling your life. How do you not see that?

For Social Justice Snowflakes, tolerance is not enough. They want to force complete Acceptance and Participation in whatever their Cause De Tweet is.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

Only if I complained. Which I wouldn't. I would find a baker who wanted to work with me. And then I would take to the internet and tell everyone I know that this baker discriminated against me and people shouldnt use him.
You understand that I am in favor of people's ability to discriminate in business, even if that means they discriminate against me, right?

That's your prerogative. It has nothing to do with the law though. Your personal feelings and beliefs are not what our laws are based upon. Our laws are based upon fair and just business practices that do not discriminate against a certain sector of the public.

No offense but you're becoming redundant

Me???? I'm just trying to explain American secular law to you. You still don't seem to get it though. We are not Iran. We don't prefer religious practices over fair business practices when it comes to doing business in America.

 

[boedicca]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

That is a CROCK. You are buying into the Prog agenda of voiding Property Rights and Individual Liberty.

One person's liberty stops at the boundary of someone else's. A bakery not wanting to bake a cake for someone doesn't prevent the gay couple from getting a cake elsewhere.

Where does this end? Isn't it discrimination to not provide a cake to people with no money? Because that is where this is headed.

Lol. Okay. If you cannot see the value of anti-discrimination laws, I can't help you. If you don't understand that American laws are not based upon any one particular religious principal, then I can't help you.

If you can't see the value in Constitutionally Protected Individual Liberty, then I can't help you.

Anti-discrimination laws should not be yokes one can use to enslave people who have different beliefs.

 

[Redfish]

Another lie from you.

Oh please. I think it would be you who is lying here. You like the gays then?

Name another group that conspires to force businesses to close, threatens to "out" politicians unless the vote the right way, and wages nasty social media campaigns against CEOs for their personal beliefs. Yeah, we know.

It would be the same if a gay baker discriminated against you because you were a heterosexual. Then, they would be fined and perhaps driving out of business. Do you see that?

why would a hetero couple want a gay baker to make their cake? Why would they want to force him, if he objected due to his sexual orientation? The gay baker should be free to only provide his products to other gays if he chooses to so limit his customers.

Maybe he makes delicious cakes?

Nope, can't do that. It's against the law.

damn, I thought you were coming around, now you have reverted to being as dumb as a sack of frog feet.

 

[ChrisL]

Denying people rights and privileges the same as what you have IS discrimination. Hello?

Whose rights should prevail? Does one person's right to a gay marriage void someone else's right to just be left alone?

No. It doesn't. The rights in The Constitution are essentially negative rights - meaning they are the right to be left alone to manage one's own life. Forcing someone to employ his skills and resources AGAINST HIS WILL his a clear violation of his Liberty.

For every bakery that doesn't want to make Gay Wedding Cakes, there will be others that will happily provide the business. The right go Gay Marriage should not be construed as a right to FORCE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE in one's wedding.

Nobody is controlling your life. Gay marriage is not controlling your life. The thing is, if you open a business, you are not allowed to discriminate against anyone. If you cannot manage that, then you don't open a business because you will be breaking a law.

If you're forced to engage i an activity you would not do otherwise then someone is controlling your life. How do you not see that?

For Social Justice Snowflakes, tolerance is not enough. They want to force complete Acceptance and Participation in whatever their Cause De Tweet is.

This is just more paranoia. Nobody is out to get you. Really. You are still free to practice your religion. You just cannot apply those beliefs (discriminatory) to a business. A business is not allowed to discriminate against anyone, and this protects all of us from being discriminated against. That's all there is to it really.

I'm not gay, and I don't feel threatened at all by gay people. Although I may not always agree with their tactics, I can understand why they would feel disenfranchised.