The downward death spiral of lassaize faire capitalism

[Red Dawn]

The final stake in the coffin of lassaize faire, “get government out of the way” ideology. The “free” market can't be trusted with deregulation, and it can’t be assumed that markets will either “Police” themselves or that markets are “self correcting”. Yeah, “self correction” while millions of people get fucked.

The FBI had evidence of massive mortgage fraud occurring (so much for the argument of bush supporters that it was just limited to “stupid people” who borrowed more than they could afford), yet the Bush administration decided not to make it a priority or provide the FBI more resources to address the problem.

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

The FBI was aware for years of "pervasive and growing" fraud in the mortgage industry that eventually contributed to America's financial meltdown, but did not take definitive action to stop it.

"It is clear that we had good intelligence on the mortgage-fraud schemes, the corrupt attorneys, the corrupt appraisers, the insider schemes," said a recently retired, high FBI official. Another retired top FBI official confirmed that such intelligence went back to 2002.
The problem, according to the two FBI retirees and several other current and former bureau colleagues, is that the bureau was stretched so thin that no one noticed when those lenders began packaging bad mortgages into bad securities.

Both retired FBI officials asserted that the Bush administration was thoroughly briefed on the mortgage fraud crisis and its potential to cascade out of control with devastating financial consequences, but made the decision not to give back to the FBI the agents it needed to address the problem. After the terrorist attacks of 2001, about 2,400 agents were reassigned to counterterrorism duties.

But Deputy Director Steve McMillin of the Bush White House's Office of Management and Budget told the P-I last year that even partially restoring the FBI crime-fighting capabilities was not a priority.

"The assumption that how it was pre- 9/11 is how it ought to be for all time is not the correct premise," he said.

The first retired FBI official said: "We made a direct pitch (for more agents) to the OMB even though we weren't supposed to and they said no." Instead, "we were looking at reductions, not additions…

FBI saw mortgage fraud early

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

Interesting theory. You seem to be asserting that comment as fact.

Is there any nation-state anywhere on the planet that has this unregulated, free market system you speak of, that would demonstrate what you're saying actually works?

IMO, what this story shows is that we need people in the government and the regulatory agencies who want to make government work, and to enforce our laws. When you put people in power who hate government, and think the markets are self-policing, they tend to do shit like this.....blow off FBI agents who tell them financial institutions are perpetrating massive mortgage frauds.

 

[Shogun]

WSJ capitalistas will look for any excuse to ignore the failure of their economic opinion. Then again, they are hardly ever part of the class of Americans who get to lose their job because of this "correction". Free Market capitalism doesn't work like these silly bastards insist. Any failure can be blamed on the slightest regulation or normalizing agency. Good riddance, I say. Let the bastards who gave us a wal mart economy choke on their foreign cars and other various cheap shit from china. I look forward to a day when we see economists have the BALLS to talk about trade deficits that do not favor our domestic situation wile the rest of the world uses our consumers like an economic tampon.

BRING ON THE TARRIFS!

 

[Truthmatters]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

Why do you do this?

It was so very obviously deregulation and massive war spending accompanied by tax cuts.

I just dont get people who stand by failed policy even when it makes them look like complete buttwinks?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

Interesting theory. You seem to be asserting that comment as fact.

Is there any nation-state anywhere on the planet that has this unregulated, free market system you speak of, that would demonstrate what you're saying actually works?

IMO, what this story shows is that we need people in the government and the regulatory agencies who want to make government work, and to enforce our laws. When you put people in power who hate government, and think the markets are self-policing, they tend to do shit like this.....blow off FBI agents who tell them financial institutions are perpetrating massive mortgage frauds.

No, there is no country that practices a free market system. You will also notice that all of the "great powers" in the world are currently in a recession.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

Why do you do this?

It was so very obviously deregulation and massive war spending accompanied by tax cuts.

I just dont get people who stand by failed policy even when it makes them look like complete buttwinks?

You're right about the massive war-spending, that certainly played it's part. Though it wasn't the main reason for our current economic situation. The Fed is the main perpetrator through inflation and artificially low interest rates. Then we made the situation worse by bailing out failed businesses, and we're working to make it even worse with the stimulus bill that passed the House last night.

You will notice none of those causes represents a free market in action.

 

[Truthmatters]

Yeah they are , due to deregulation

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yeah they are , due to deregulation

Well, that is incorrect... So I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Truthmatters]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

Why do you do this?

It was so very obviously deregulation and massive war spending accompanied by tax cuts.

I just dont get people who stand by failed policy even when it makes them look like complete buttwinks?

You're right about the massive war-spending, that certainly played it's part. Though it wasn't the main reason for our current economic situation. The Fed is the main perpetrator through inflation and artificially low interest rates. Then we made the situation worse by bailing out failed businesses, and we're working to make it even worse with the stimulus bill that passed the House last night.

You will notice none of those causes represents a free market in action.

artificially low interest rates



At least you got something right.

Hoover should be your new nick name

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Why do you do this?

It was so very obviously deregulation and massive war spending accompanied by tax cuts.

I just dont get people who stand by failed policy even when it makes them look like complete buttwinks?

You're right about the massive war-spending, that certainly played it's part. Though it wasn't the main reason for our current economic situation. The Fed is the main perpetrator through inflation and artificially low interest rates. Then we made the situation worse by bailing out failed businesses, and we're working to make it even worse with the stimulus bill that passed the House last night.

You will notice none of those causes represents a free market in action.

artificially low interest rates



At least you got something right.

Hoover should be your new nick name

No thanks. Hoover intervened as much as FDR did to try and avoid the Great Depression. I'm a free marketeer, not an interventionist.

 

[Truthmatters]

You are right about the fact the Hoover started the ideas but he was way too timmid and and FDR expanded them enough to start the ball rolling.

You are really worse than Hoover because you want to continue most of the polices that created the mess.


Deregulation is now a dead idea. the only people who cling to this unworkable policy are prone to fantasy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You are right about the fact the Hoover started the ideas but he was way too timmid and and FDR expanded them enough to start the ball rolling.

You are really worse than Hoover because you want to continue most of the polices that created the mess.


Deregulation is now a dead idea. the only people who cling to this unworkable policy are prone to fantasy.

Well Hoover was as much an interventionist as FDR was, and it's only a myth that he sat around twiddling his thumbs. Also, the New Deal prolonged the Great Depression so I wouldn't be too over-excited about it if I were you.

I do not want to continue the policies that created this mess in the least. I want to abolish the federal reserve, I want the government to cut taxes, and I want government to cut it's own spending, I want to implement a non-interventionist foreign policy which would save us trillions of dollars. Those would be examples of how you help the economy right now.

 

[Shogun]

it's going to be a loooong four years for WSJ capitalistas.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

it's going to be a loooong four years for WSJ capitalistas.

It's been a long 96 years for us free marketeers.

 

[Truthmatters]

FDRs polices did not prolong the depression, that is just a talking point of people who want us to continue this stupidity that the republicans have been giving us for 30 years now. There is no fact to it ,its a scewed theory.


No Hoover had some of the same ideas and did them in a timid ass way.


Tax cuts are the same damned thing.

What is the plan for the chaos that no fed will bring?

What you are requesting is all fun on paper but would produce utter chaos for years to come.

 

[editec]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

That theory is very nearly as preposertous as suggesting that the reason there is crime is becuase there are laws to prevent it, my friend.

Perhaps you ought to take off your idealistic blinders and reread what was actually presented.

People were committing crimes, crimes that existed as such because of regulations designed to prevent precisely the sort of economic melt down we're currently enjoying.

However due to the fact that the FBI had other things to do, no follow-up to do something about this ongoing RICO type criminal behavior was done.

Crime can happen in whatever type of economy exists be it lassaize faire capitalism or Stalinist communism.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

FDRs polices did not prolong the depression, that is just a talking point of people who want us to continue this stupidity that the republicans have been giving us for 30 years now. There is no fact to it ,its a scewed theory.


No Hoover had some of the same ideas and did them in a timid ass way.


Tax cuts are the same damned thing.

What is the plan for the chaos that not fed will bring?

What you are requesting is all fun on paper but would produce utter chaos for years to come.

It's been proven by many economists that FDR's New Deal did in fact prolong the Great Depression. I am not a Republican so I have no reason to simply want to push their policies over Democrat policies.

Chaos that no Fed will bring? The dollar has lost 95 or so percent of it's value since the Fed has gone into creation, and it's brought about the Great Depression, the stagflation of the 70's, the tech-bubble, and our current crisis. That sounds like chaos to me.

 

[Shogun]

it's going to be a loooong four years for WSJ capitalistas.

It's been a long 96 years for us free marketeers.

yea, dude.. because your talons have had NO influence on American economics at all!





Looks liek you should take thyself to the French Guyana like the last cult that didn't get domestic support for their nutty bullshit. don't drink the Grape Flavor Aid though.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually this financial crisis shows that government intervention in the markets is a bad thing. Free markets could not have caused this crisis, because we had anything but a free market before it hit. The fact that the Federal Reserve exists is the antithesis of a free market.

That theory is very nearly as preposertous as suggesting that the reason there is crime is becuase there are laws to prevent it, my friend.

Perhaps you ought to take off your idealistic blinders and reread what was actually presented.

People were committing crimes, crimes that existed as such because of regulations designed to prevent precisely the sort of economic melt down we're currently enjoying.

However due to the fact that the FBI had other things to do, no follow-up to do something about this ongoing RICO type criminal behavior was done.

Crime can happen in whatever type of economy exists be it lassaize faire capitalism or Stalinist communism.

And there are laws against fraud. That doesn't mean that the free market or laissez-faire economics created our current crisis.