The death of Thanksgiving?

[Pogo]

Labor IS a commodity, like hog bellies. It is a unit. Like any other unit of production. Businesses opening on Thanksgiving, and they are opening at 8PM long after the family arguments have bored or antagonized the family members out the door aren't influencing family togetherness, it is a response to the lack of family togetherness.

Cynicism has its place. But not as a tool to erode family tradition. Good luck in the Brave New World.

What you are not quite understanding is that all family traditions are not YOUR family traditions. You said that your position is the Norman Rockwell, idealized family get together. Very few families are really like that. Today, more than ever fewer families are families in that traditional sense. There was a time when "tradition" did not include either television or football. Now it does. People have to work to make that football game happen, not least of which are the players themselves. How many men get tickets for the big game and leave families who can't be bothered at home?

Tradition is extremely personal. It is YOUR tradition, and yours alone. It is not shared.

Left brain, meet right brain. Yawn.

 

[Nosmo King]

Labor IS a commodity, like hog bellies. It is a unit. Like any other unit of production. Businesses opening on Thanksgiving, and they are opening at 8PM long after the family arguments have bored or antagonized the family members out the door aren't influencing family togetherness, it is a response to the lack of family togetherness.

Cynicism has its place. But not as a tool to erode family tradition. Good luck in the Brave New World.

What you are not quite understanding is that all family traditions are not YOUR family traditions. You said that your position is the Norman Rockwell, idealized family get together. Very few families are really like that. Today, more than ever fewer families are families in that traditional sense. There was a time when "tradition" did not include either television or football. Now it does. People have to work to make that football game happen, not least of which are the players themselves. How many men get tickets for the big game and leave families who can't be bothered at home?

Tradition is extremely personal. It is YOUR tradition, and yours alone. It is not shared.

I have hope that there are more families like Ozzie and Harriet than like the Sopranos. For those families, Thanksgiving is more than football, shopping, arguing and dysfunctionality. God bless those unfortunate families who suffer under those unnecessary yokes and the likes of you and your attitude. Perhaps, just perhaps, you aren't so jaded about Christmas either.

 

[Nosmo King]

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to give thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Labor IS a commodity, like hog bellies. It is a unit. Like any other unit of production. Businesses opening on Thanksgiving, and they are opening at 8PM long after the family arguments have bored or antagonized the family members out the door aren't influencing family togetherness, it is a response to the lack of family togetherness.

Labor is people. People have rights. Hog bellies do not.

Once you come to the realization that people are more important than anything, you will realize that family is important to people, therefore family trumps profit.

Capitalism is lubricated with the blood of the oppressed. Every so often, it's important to shut that machine down and let the people breathe.

 

[syrenn]

The bottom line is, if the stores were not open on Thanksgiving Day, folks would not miss having those stores open. And would do something else that they might or might not enjoy doing more. But the fact that the stores do open and those in my family having a ball on those holiday shopping expeditions takes absolutely nothing away from those who prefer to stay home.

actually you have that backwards. The bottom line is.... if people did not shop in mass numbers on "holidays",the stores would not open.

 

[syrenn]

I don't know about you guys but I'm ready for all that Thanksgiving food!

Haha High, we already had our first T-day dinner, Sunday after church!!!

And it was awesome!

and i have my first 14 ponder of the season ready to go for this wednsday.

 

[syrenn]

I want turkey, collards, mashed potatoes, mushroom gravy, yams and rolls! lots of rolls!

[MENTION=4301]boedicca[/MENTION]


hear that..... rolls, lots of rolls.

 

[Pogo]

The bottom line is, if the stores were not open on Thanksgiving Day, folks would not miss having those stores open. And would do something else that they might or might not enjoy doing more. But the fact that the stores do open and those in my family having a ball on those holiday shopping expeditions takes absolutely nothing away from those who prefer to stay home.

actually you have that backwards. The bottom line is.... if people did not shop in mass numbers on "holidays",the stores would not open.

Aah... I'm pretty sure the store has to be open first.

Let's face it-- people are lemmings. They do what they're told. But I repeat myself.

 

[koshergrl]

Well you certainly are, at any rate.

 

[koshergrl]

But don't mistake your own reality for the reality of the world.

 

[Pogo]

I don't know about you guys but I'm ready for all that Thanksgiving food!

Haha High, we already had our first T-day dinner, Sunday after church!!!

And it was awesome!

and i have my first 14 ponder of the season ready to go for this wednsday.

Wednesday?

Hmmm... Wednesday... ... of course, there's the answer!

Stores open Thursday? Move the holiday to Wednesday. Everybody gets what they want. Win-win.

 

[koshergrl]

No, win/win is to leave it exactly the way it is.

 

[koshergrl]

Micromanage your own calendar. Leave the rest of us alone.

 

[syrenn]

The bottom line is, if the stores were not open on Thanksgiving Day, folks would not miss having those stores open. And would do something else that they might or might not enjoy doing more. But the fact that the stores do open and those in my family having a ball on those holiday shopping expeditions takes absolutely nothing away from those who prefer to stay home.

actually you have that backwards. The bottom line is.... if people did not shop in mass numbers on "holidays",the stores would not open.

Aah... I'm pretty sure the store has to be open first.

Let's face it-- people are lemmings. They do what they're told. But I repeat myself.

for a shop to open... they have to feel pretty confident that they parent going to lose money paying people to work......

 

[Nosmo King]

Haha High, we already had our first T-day dinner, Sunday after church!!!

And it was awesome!

and i have my first 14 ponder of the season ready to go for this wednsday.

Wednesday?

Hmmm... Wednesday... ... of course, there's the answer!

Stores open Thursday? Move the holiday to Wednesday. Everybody gets what they want. Win-win.

I don't eat poultry. Not since 1962, but that's another story. But my brother is a gourmand. He loves to cook and eat, but not clean up afterward. He insists that a turkey must be brined before it gets cooked. Here's a recipe for brining your bird (which was an insult back in my college days, but times change):

My Favorite Turkey Brine | The Pioneer Woman Cooks | Ree Drummond

 

[Pogo]

actually you have that backwards. The bottom line is.... if people did not shop in mass numbers on "holidays",the stores would not open.

Aah... I'm pretty sure the store has to be open first.

Let's face it-- people are lemmings. They do what they're told. But I repeat myself.

for a shop to open... they have to feel pretty confident that they parent going to lose money paying people to work......

Yes they do.
One word:

"Marketing"

That's what I mean by "lemmings".

 

[Pogo]

Micromanage your own calendar. Leave the rest of us alone.

Sorry -- we already cast Unkotare in the role of Scrooge. You can be his understudy.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm no Scrooge, I LOVE Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

I have guests and everything.

 

[koshergrl]

In fact, I'm seriously considering renting facilities.....

I can get an enclosed gazebo/kitchen unit by the lake here for $75!!!!! I'm really considering it!

If I don't do it this year, I AM doing it next year.

 

[Pogo]

I'm no Scrooge, I LOVE Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

I have guests and everything.

Ah, you just play one on the internets.

Well, you do it well.

 

[Foxfyre]

The bottom line is, if the stores were not open on Thanksgiving Day, folks would not miss having those stores open. And would do something else that they might or might not enjoy doing more. But the fact that the stores do open and those in my family having a ball on those holiday shopping expeditions takes absolutely nothing away from those who prefer to stay home.

actually you have that backwards. The bottom line is.... if people did not shop in mass numbers on "holidays",the stores would not open.

No, I had it right. If the stores closed on Thanksgiving, all those who do shop on Thanskgiving would adjust quite nicely and would expect the stores to be closed on Thanksgiving just as they expect most places to be closed on Christmas. I'm probably quite a bit older than you and still remember when they rolled up the sidewalks and pretty well shut down the town on Saturday night and didn't open again until Monday morning. And certainly everything was shut up tighter than a drum on Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's Day. If we forgot something that we really needed, it was a real scavenger hunt trying to find something open anywhere where we could get it, or to find a shop owner who would take pity on us and let us slip in the back door for a minute.

But the point made, those who don't WANT to close on Thanksgiving and who WANT to shop on Thanksgiving are not crass, evil, greedy, selfish people or corrupting the morals of children just because they do that.

I say live and let live. Do Thanksgiving the way we prefer to do Thanksgiving, and don't get all bent out of shape if others want to do something different.