The Core Problem

[bendog]

For many outside the United States, Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory in the West Bank is considered illegal. On Wednesday, Iceland’s ambassador to the United Nations, Greta Gunnarsdottir, cited what she called “the core problem” underlying the current violence.

“It is the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, that affects all aspects of the daily life of Palestinians, that violates their human rights,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/w...n-israel-americans-hold-out-support.html?_r=0

It is a core problem. The Pales realize Israel doesn't really want to negotiate a peace. Nevertheless, Hamas's real goal is to destroy a Jewish state. You can't have peace with Hamas. In a sense Likud and Hamas need each other like the Hatfields and McCoys.

 

[Daniyel]

For many outside the United States, Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory in the West Bank is considered illegal. On Wednesday, Iceland’s ambassador to the United Nations, Greta Gunnarsdottir, cited what she called “the core problem” underlying the current violence.

“It is the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, that affects all aspects of the daily life of Palestinians, that violates their human rights,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/w...n-israel-americans-hold-out-support.html?_r=0

It is a core problem. The Pales realize Israel doesn't really want to negotiate a peace. Nevertheless, Hamas's real goal is to destroy a Jewish state. You can't have peace with Hamas. In a sense Likud and Hamas need each other like the Hatfields and McCoys.

The comparison between Likud and Hamas is impossible, plus its not only Likud, its 97% of the population in Israel against Hamas.
The FULL responsibility for zero peace negotiation tied with the preconditions just for negotiating, the Pals only try to squeeze and evade peace, it was before, and it will be in the future unless something will change, and I agree Hamas are incapable of peace, but the only way to change it is by eliminating Hamas off the equation and helping the Pals reach the bright 'Arab Spring' future, all past negotiation failed because of the Pals refusal not Israel.
Last 9 month negotiation Israel agreed for a preconditions froze the settlements and released 350 terrorists (convicted killers as well) and that peace talk reached no where, Abbas refused to continue without more preconditions again, and blew it up, later on he made pact with Hamas.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

For many outside the United States, Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory in the West Bank is considered illegal. On Wednesday, Iceland’s ambassador to the United Nations, Greta Gunnarsdottir, cited what she called “the core problem” underlying the current violence.

“It is the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, that affects all aspects of the daily life of Palestinians, that violates their human rights,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/w...n-israel-americans-hold-out-support.html?_r=0

It is a core problem. The Pales realize Israel doesn't really want to negotiate a peace. Nevertheless, Hamas's real goal is to destroy a Jewish state. You can't have peace with Hamas. In a sense Likud and Hamas need each other like the Hatfields and McCoys.

The comparison between Likud and Hamas is impossible, plus its not only Likud, its 97% of the population in Israel against Hamas.
The FULL responsibility for zero peace negotiation tied with the preconditions just for negotiating, the Pals only try to squeeze and evade peace, it was before, and it will be in the future unless something will change, and I agree Hamas are incapable of peace, but the only way to change it is by eliminating Hamas off the equation and helping the Pals reach the bright 'Arab Spring' future, all past negotiation failed because of the Pals refusal not Israel.
Last 9 month negotiation Israel agreed for a preconditions froze the settlements and released 350 terrorists (convicted killers as well) and that peace talk reached no where, Abbas refused to continue without more preconditions again, and blew it up, later on he made pact with Hamas.

Although Hebrew is your native language, I get the gist of what you're saying. People here will attack you on your grammar, and not on the points you made.

 

[bendog]

For many outside the United States, Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory in the West Bank is considered illegal. On Wednesday, Iceland’s ambassador to the United Nations, Greta Gunnarsdottir, cited what she called “the core problem” underlying the current violence.

“It is the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, that affects all aspects of the daily life of Palestinians, that violates their human rights,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/w...n-israel-americans-hold-out-support.html?_r=0

It is a core problem. The Pales realize Israel doesn't really want to negotiate a peace. Nevertheless, Hamas's real goal is to destroy a Jewish state. You can't have peace with Hamas. In a sense Likud and Hamas need each other like the Hatfields and McCoys.

The comparison between Likud and Hamas is impossible, plus its not only Likud, its 97% of the population in Israel against Hamas.
The FULL responsibility for zero peace negotiation tied with the preconditions just for negotiating, the Pals only try to squeeze and evade peace, it was before, and it will be in the future unless something will change, and I agree Hamas are incapable of peace, but the only way to change it is by eliminating Hamas off the equation and helping the Pals reach the bright 'Arab Spring' future, all past negotiation failed because of the Pals refusal not Israel.
Last 9 month negotiation Israel agreed for a preconditions froze the settlements and released 350 terrorists (convicted killers as well) and that peace talk reached no where, Abbas refused to continue without more preconditions again, and blew it up, later on he made pact with Hamas.

Likud needs Hamas to legitimize its claim that there can be no two state solution. All Israel ever agrees to is 'temporary halts to settlements." I don't believe all Israelis are committed to ethnically cleansing the west bank or establishing an apartheid regiem, but Likud's coaltion does. Hamas needs Likud to show the Palestinians there can be no peace with Zionists.

However, even without Likud, and a return to actually trying to form a demilitarized Pale state in the west bank, Hamas would be undeterred. Which is why the vast maj of Israelis support the gaza military operation.

I don't see Israel as ever being able to rid itself of Hamas without ending the appropriation of land, and committing to a pale state in the west bank, with Jordan.

But, hell, lets just end it. Israel's already taken the land. Let's stop pretending you're capable of honest dialogue

http://www.ticklethewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/west_bank__gaza_map_2007_settlements.gif

 

[Daniyel]

It is a core problem. The Pales realize Israel doesn't really want to negotiate a peace. Nevertheless, Hamas's real goal is to destroy a Jewish state. You can't have peace with Hamas. In a sense Likud and Hamas need each other like the Hatfields and McCoys.

The comparison between Likud and Hamas is impossible, plus its not only Likud, its 97% of the population in Israel against Hamas.
The FULL responsibility for zero peace negotiation tied with the preconditions just for negotiating, the Pals only try to squeeze and evade peace, it was before, and it will be in the future unless something will change, and I agree Hamas are incapable of peace, but the only way to change it is by eliminating Hamas off the equation and helping the Pals reach the bright 'Arab Spring' future, all past negotiation failed because of the Pals refusal not Israel.
Last 9 month negotiation Israel agreed for a preconditions froze the settlements and released 350 terrorists (convicted killers as well) and that peace talk reached no where, Abbas refused to continue without more preconditions again, and blew it up, later on he made pact with Hamas.

Likud needs Hamas to legitimize its claim that there can be no two state solution. All Israel ever agrees to is 'temporary halts to settlements." I don't believe all Israelis are committed to ethnically cleansing the west bank or establishing an apartheid regiem, but Likud's coaltion does. Hamas needs Likud to show the Palestinians there can be no peace with Zionists.

However, even without Likud, and a return to actually trying to form a demilitarized Pale state in the west bank, Hamas would be undeterred. Which is why the vast maj of Israelis support the gaza military operation.

I don't see Israel as ever being able to rid itself of Hamas without ending the appropriation of land, and committing to a pale state in the west bank, with Jordan.

But, hell, lets just end it. Israel's already taken the land. Let's stop pretending you're capable of honest dialogue

http://www.ticklethewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/west_bank__gaza_map_2007_settlements.gif

Here again you compare Likud to Hamas, Likud won the primaries and posses the biggest part of the departments but nothing like Hamas which posses ALL of the government in Gaza,Here you can see the Knesset (Israeli Parliament)
Hamas did not won a legitimate government election, and considered the "only" faction ruling Gaza, and declared all over the world as Terrorist Organization(US: No negotiation with Terror remember?)
With this being said, I want to list all hostile terrorist organization/groups except Hamas:
PIJ,PLO,PFLP,TPRC,DFLP,PLF,ALF,VPLW,PPSF,PAF,Fatah,Tanzim,Fatah-SOG,Force-17,AAR-Brigade,BSO,AAM-Brigades,PFLP-GC,Fatah AI,Jund Ansar Allah,AOI,Jaljalat,Jahafil Filastin,Hezbullah,ISIS,ISIL - And god knows what else..so we don't need them, in fact the world would be a better place without them.
Another point is that Hamas always win, dead kids photos or victory spoils to political support in Gaza, we don't need them, trust me.
So far Israel is always considered apartheid by the pro-Pals, but I never heard any reason why so, the "ethnically cleansing" is just a poor de-legitimization nothing beyond that, the West Bank is Israeli territory - not Palestinian, the fact Palestinians living in the West Bank at this very moment is absurd but they posses West Bank ID which means they are allowed to stay there but not enter the rest of Israel without valid permits, and the same way I can't go to the US and live without a Visa - same for them, and its the same all over the world, Israel also evacuate Israeli settlements - do you know that?
Israel has right and left wingers with freedom of speech and all rights plus special rights for declared minorities, 97% is also Israeli Arabs for example, and this also include the left wing, all your claims come from lack of knowledge about Israel and lack of knowledge about the Palestinians, lets not mention the entire conflict, So I don't see why you bother analyze the situation or even compare..but hell, you are a pro-Palestinians so lets stop pretending you even capable of a honest dialogue.

 

[Ropey]

“Yes,” Ging replied. ““The armed groups are firing their rockets into Israel from the vicinity of U.N. facilities and residential areas, absolutely.”

UN Official admits Hamas firing rockets ?from the vicinity of UN facilities?

 

[toastman]

I think that you need to learn to read...

You will see, if you can be bothered, that I made it VERY clear that I was no longer neutral...

The blockade as you call it ensures that Gaza and the people of Gaza live in extremely poor conditions... It's called oppression... You as a Jew should know all about oppression and the effects of oppression...

The core problem IS occupation... End of story... And until that changes there will never be peace...

If you occupied my land I would kick your ass to get out out. No difference!

Oh right the blockade again, I DON'T CARE THEY HAVE TO LIVE POOR AND MISERABLE BECAUSE THE OTHER OPTION MEANS WE WON'T LIVE AT ALL!
And since they started it, we had to kick their ass out of Israel, period.

That's like saying the Native Americans started the conflict with the European settlers.

The Palestinian Christians and Muslims did not start anything. They were living peacefully in Palestine before the European Zionists arrived and eventually evicted them.

The European Jews started the conflict, that's just a basic fact.

No, it's not a fact. The Palestinian Arabs starting attacking the Jews, jot the other way around.
Also, the main part of the conflict was a result of the 1949 war, which started when 5 Arab armies invaded Palestine and attacked Israel while trying to invade Israel.
The surrounding Arab states as well as the Palestinians, are the worst enemy of the Palestinians.

 

[Ropey]

How has "world opinion" impacted events in Syria? 9,0000 children dead and not a word of outcry from Hamas because they support that slaughter. As a matter of a fact, the Palestinians are fighting over there. They have Hezbollah supporting them in Gaza while they send their own fighters to fight with the Sunni and attacking their (Hezbollah) supporters (Shia Assad) while Iran supports both Hebzollah and Hamas.

What a murderous ideology.

As if "world opinion" is going to deter Hama or change the political equation so that Mahmoud Abbas -- whose efforts to make hudna have been far more possible and he may be able to negotiate successfully for Palestinian statehood if they can stop Hamas from setting them up to be killed so that their dead & inflated 'civilian' numbers can be used for media fodder.

 

[montelatici]

Oh right the blockade again, I DON'T CARE THEY HAVE TO LIVE POOR AND MISERABLE BECAUSE THE OTHER OPTION MEANS WE WON'T LIVE AT ALL!
And since they started it, we had to kick their ass out of Israel, period.

That's like saying the Native Americans started the conflict with the European settlers.

The Palestinian Christians and Muslims did not start anything. They were living peacefully in Palestine before the European Zionists arrived and eventually evicted them.

The European Jews started the conflict, that's just a basic fact.

No, it's not a fact. The Palestinian Arabs starting attacking the Jews, jot the other way around.
Also, the main part of the conflict was a result of the 1949 war, which started when 5 Arab armies invaded Palestine and attacked Israel while trying to invade Israel.
The surrounding Arab states as well as the Palestinians, are the worst enemy of the Palestinians.

The settlers started the hostilities in the late 1800s early 1900s as reported by Ahad Ha'am in one of his essays:

They had not learned from experience as a minority, but, like a slave who has become king, "behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, infringe upon their boundaries, hit them shamefully without reason, and even brag about it".

David Goldberg: The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region's enmity | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

[Ropey]

 

[Ropey]

It's not as though Hamas are pretending they're not doing this.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/baby-killers-of-hamas/

 

[Indeependent]

Israel just laid siege to and blockaded Gaza in 2005, what are you talking about. Learn some history before you spout nonsense.

Are you now going to revise the state of Aza when it was handed over?
The blockade was a reaction to the WBJs destroying the infrastructure and screaming Death To The Jews!
It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who constantly revises modern and contemporary events.

Israel never relinquished control of Gaza's land border, air space or territorial sea after removing its troops. You are a typical Israel propagandist attempting to change facts based on current events which I can easily debunk.


"In September 2005, Israel completed the "disengagement plan," which included the dismantling of all the Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip, the evacuation of their residents to Israeli territory, and the withdrawal of all Israeli army forces from the area. After the plan was completed, Israel issued an order declaring the end of the military government in the Gaza Strip. The changes following the disengagement resulted in some improvement in the ability of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to run their lives. Most importantly, they are now able to move about freely in most of the territory. However, Israel continues to hold decisive control over important elements of Palestinian life in the Gaza Strip, as follows:

Crossing of people: Israel continues to maintain complete control of its border crossings with the Gaza Strip, and the air and sea space of the Gaza Strip."

The scope of Israeli control in the Gaza Strip | B'Tselem

True or False:
You just stated that a nation should have no control over it's border.

 

[Indeependent]

It's not as though Hamas are pretending they're not doing this.

Baby Killers of Hamas | FrontPage Magazine

That's how Muslims celebrate birthdays.

 

[montelatici]

Are you now going to revise the state of Aza when it was handed over?
The blockade was a reaction to the WBJs destroying the infrastructure and screaming Death To The Jews!
It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who constantly revises modern and contemporary events.

Israel never relinquished control of Gaza's land border, air space or territorial sea after removing its troops. You are a typical Israel propagandist attempting to change facts based on current events which I can easily debunk.


"In September 2005, Israel completed the "disengagement plan," which included the dismantling of all the Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip, the evacuation of their residents to Israeli territory, and the withdrawal of all Israeli army forces from the area. After the plan was completed, Israel issued an order declaring the end of the military government in the Gaza Strip. The changes following the disengagement resulted in some improvement in the ability of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to run their lives. Most importantly, they are now able to move about freely in most of the territory. However, Israel continues to hold decisive control over important elements of Palestinian life in the Gaza Strip, as follows:

Crossing of people: Israel continues to maintain complete control of its border crossings with the Gaza Strip, and the air and sea space of the Gaza Strip."

The scope of Israeli control in the Gaza Strip | B'Tselem

True or False:
You just stated that a nation should have no control over it's border.

But not another nation's border.

 

[Ropey]

One of the Hamas terrorists involved in the attack described her reaction and the Muslim reaction.

“While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another, they said on the radio that there had been a martyrdom attack at the Sbarro restaurant, and that three people were killed. I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said ‘three dead,’ I said: ‘Allah be praised.’”

“Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn’t. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.”

Ahlam Tamimi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the core problem remains. The Palestinians want to kill Jews more than they want the safety of their own people.

Once they start protecting their people with their weapons instead of their using their weapons with their people as human shields, they will have a chance to find the peace some say they seek.

I'm not so sure they seek peace. I think they seek the deaths of Jews.