The Construction of an American Political lie

[harmonica]

Until our leaders start fessing up to what has been done in the name of protecting America, we as the true overseers of this government need to start becoming a more informed citizenry.

Soleimani
Tue Jan 7th 2020 by abagond



Qasem Soleimani (1957-2020), also spelled “Suleimani”, was the Iranian general the US killed last week in Baghdad, on January 2nd 2020 at 22:00 UTC (it was one in the morning the next day in Iraq).

In the US almost no one knew who he was, but now the press is saying he was a Horrible Terrible Person, worse than Osama bin Laden (the head of Al Qaeda) or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (the head of ISIS), both of whom the US also assassinated.

As CNBC, a supposedly serious news outlet, tweeted, in its own voice:

“America just took out the world’s no. 1 bad guy”

And that was not even Fox News on the far-right!

If Soleimani was that terrible, why did the press say so little about him before he was killed? He has been a general in Iran since the 1980s – he was hardly hiding under a rock.

Before and after: Compare the Wikipedia before and after his death:

On December 27th, the second paragraph:

“Soleimani hailed from a humble background. He began his military career since the beginning of the Iran–Iraq War of the 1980s, during which he commanded the 41st Division. He was later involved in extraterritorial operations, providing military assistance to anti-Saddam Shia and Kurdish groups in Iraq, and later Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian territories. In 2012, Soleimani helped bolster the Syrian government, a key Iranian ally, during the Syrian Civil War. Soleimani also assisted in the command of combined Iraqi government and Shia militia forces that advanced against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in 2014–2015.[19]”

On January 7th, today:

“Soleimani began his military career at the start of the Iran–Iraq War during the 1980s, eventually commanding the 41st Division. He was later involved in extraterritorial operations, providing military assistance to Hezbollah in Lebanon. In 2012, Soleimani helped bolster the government of Bashar al-Assad, a key Iranian ally, during Iran’s operations in the Syrian Civil War and helped to plan the Russian military intervention in Syria.[20] Soleimani oversaw the Kurdish and Shia militia forces in Iraq, and assisted the Iraqi forces that advanced against ISIL in 2014–2015.[21][22] Soleimani was one of the first to support Kurdish forces, providing them with arms.[23][24] He maintained a low profile during most of his career.”

Compare: Both paragraphs might be perfectly true – they are not logically contradictory. But notice the change in emphasis: two good things about him have been taken out (humble origins, anti-Saddam) and two bad ones added (pro-Assad, helps Russia). Good and bad, that is, from a US point of view! Just over half the edits made to the English-language Wikipedia come from the US.

Demonization: Soleimani, as you might expect, fought both for and against US enemies. He was, be it noted, a general for Iran, not the US. And Iran, be it further noted, is not some rebel province of the US empire. But now that President Trump has killed him, Soleimani is being demonized, flattened into a Hollywood “bad guy”. Why?

Soleimani

you people LOVE criminals --I'm not surprised you LOVE terrorists also

 

[daveman]

Yemen
Drone Strikes: Yemen
Pakistan
Drone Strikes: Pakistan
obama
Obama’s covert drone war in numbers: ten times more strikes than Bush

Until our leaders start fessing up to what has been done in the name of protecting America, we as the true overseers of this government need to start becoming a more informed citizenry. What about Obama is no good here, because I am talking about the actions of EVERY administration since the end of WW2 and that includes this one.

So you can stop sucking trumps thang about this and start demanding that our government stop doing this shit.

So, government does bad things -- so the obvious solution is even more government.

 

[fncceo]

we as the true overseers of this government need to start becoming a more informed citizenry.

Funny how you only want to be more informed when there is a Republican in The White House.

 

[georgephillip]

The only way to avoid a war was to hand over south Korea to the Soviet Bloc

which would have been an unforgivable crime against humanity

You're conflating two different historical events: the 1950 invasion of South Korea by the DPRK, and the event that made that action inevitable, namely the US Army refusing to allow free elections in 1945.

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The Imperial Japanese authorities requested that a government be established to ensure the safety of their persons and property after the occupation ended.

"Under the leadership of Lyuh Woon-Hyung, the newly formed Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence (CPKI) organized people's committees throughout the country to coordinate the transition to independence."

Lyuh is still venerated in South and North Korea; he might well have been elected president in 1945 if the US military had not prevented free elections by force of arms.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Soleimani was a hero to American blacks. He killed American whites so they had something in common.

 

[miketx]

Until our leaders start fessing up to what has been done in the name of protecting America, we as the true overseers of this government need to start becoming a more informed citizenry.

Soleimani
Tue Jan 7th 2020 by abagond



Qasem Soleimani (1957-2020), also spelled “Suleimani”, was the Iranian general the US killed last week in Baghdad, on January 2nd 2020 at 22:00 UTC (it was one in the morning the next day in Iraq).

In the US almost no one knew who he was, but now the press is saying he was a Horrible Terrible Person, worse than Osama bin Laden (the head of Al Qaeda) or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (the head of ISIS), both of whom the US also assassinated.

As CNBC, a supposedly serious news outlet, tweeted, in its own voice:

“America just took out the world’s no. 1 bad guy”

And that was not even Fox News on the far-right!

If Soleimani was that terrible, why did the press say so little about him before he was killed? He has been a general in Iran since the 1980s – he was hardly hiding under a rock.

Before and after: Compare the Wikipedia before and after his death:

On December 27th, the second paragraph:

“Soleimani hailed from a humble background. He began his military career since the beginning of the Iran–Iraq War of the 1980s, during which he commanded the 41st Division. He was later involved in extraterritorial operations, providing military assistance to anti-Saddam Shia and Kurdish groups in Iraq, and later Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian territories. In 2012, Soleimani helped bolster the Syrian government, a key Iranian ally, during the Syrian Civil War. Soleimani also assisted in the command of combined Iraqi government and Shia militia forces that advanced against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in 2014–2015.[19]”

On January 7th, today:

“Soleimani began his military career at the start of the Iran–Iraq War during the 1980s, eventually commanding the 41st Division. He was later involved in extraterritorial operations, providing military assistance to Hezbollah in Lebanon. In 2012, Soleimani helped bolster the government of Bashar al-Assad, a key Iranian ally, during Iran’s operations in the Syrian Civil War and helped to plan the Russian military intervention in Syria.[20] Soleimani oversaw the Kurdish and Shia militia forces in Iraq, and assisted the Iraqi forces that advanced against ISIL in 2014–2015.[21][22] Soleimani was one of the first to support Kurdish forces, providing them with arms.[23][24] He maintained a low profile during most of his career.”

Compare: Both paragraphs might be perfectly true – they are not logically contradictory. But notice the change in emphasis: two good things about him have been taken out (humble origins, anti-Saddam) and two bad ones added (pro-Assad, helps Russia). Good and bad, that is, from a US point of view! Just over half the edits made to the English-language Wikipedia come from the US.

Demonization: Soleimani, as you might expect, fought both for and against US enemies. He was, be it noted, a general for Iran, not the US. And Iran, be it further noted, is not some rebel province of the US empire. But now that President Trump has killed him, Soleimani is being demonized, flattened into a Hollywood “bad guy”. Why?

Soleimani

 

[Mac-7]

The only way to avoid a war was to hand over south Korea to the Soviet Bloc

which would have been an unforgivable crime against humanity

You're conflating two different historical events: the 1950 invasion of South Korea by the DPRK, and the event that made that action inevitable, namely the US Army refusing to allow free elections in 1945.

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The Imperial Japanese authorities requested that a government be established to ensure the safety of their persons and property after the occupation ended.

"Under the leadership of Lyuh Woon-Hyung, the newly formed Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence (CPKI) organized people's committees throughout the country to coordinate the transition to independence."

Lyuh is still venerated in South and North Korea; he might well have been elected president in 1945 if the US military had not prevented free elections by force of arms.

You are ignoring the reality that the communists in the north were absolutely not interested in a democratic government that represented the views of non communists

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

 

[georgephillip]

You are ignoring the reality that the communists in the north were absolutely not interested in a democratic government that represented the views of non communists

In 1950 that statement was true.
It was not true in 1945:

"DECEMBER 31, 2002
A Pop Quiz on Korea
by GARY LEUPP

"5. In accordance with a wartime agreement that the USSR would enter the war with Japan following the German surrender, Soviet forces invaded Korea in August, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10. They could easily have occupied the whole peninsula. What did they do?

"a. They accepted the Japanese surrender, provided arms to local communist forces led by Kim Il-sung, and withdrew within the year.

"b. They consulted with their American allies, who requested that they stop their advance at the 38th parallel, so that U.S. forces could in the next month occupy the rest of Korea. The Soviets agreed to the U.S. proposal."

 

[georgephillip]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

 

[The Original Tree]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

Don't you have to go run along and shave Ayatollah Asshollah's ass hairs?
Or maybe you need to shave Kim Dumb Wong's balls. Yes...that's it

 

[georgephillip]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

Don't you have to go run along and shave Ayatollah Asshollah's ass hairs?
Or maybe you need to shave Kim Dumb Wong's balls. Yes...that's it
View attachment 301704

President Snowflake: Trump Needs a Safe Space in Europe

 

[The Original Tree]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

Don't you have to go run along and shave Ayatollah Asshollah's ass hairs?
Or maybe you need to shave Kim Dumb Wong's balls. Yes...that's it
View attachment 301704

President Snowflake: Trump Needs a Safe Space in Europe

 

[Mac-7]

You are ignoring the reality that the communists in the north were absolutely not interested in a democratic government that represented the views of non communists

In 1950 that statement was true.
It was not true in 1945:

"DECEMBER 31, 2002
A Pop Quiz on Korea
by GARY LEUPP

"5. In accordance with a wartime agreement that the USSR would enter the war with Japan following the German surrender, Soviet forces invaded Korea in August, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10. They could easily have occupied the whole peninsula. What did they do?

"a. They accepted the Japanese surrender, provided arms to local communist forces led by Kim Il-sung, and withdrew within the year.

"b. They consulted with their American allies, who requested that they stop their advance at the 38th parallel, so that U.S. forces could in the next month occupy the rest of Korea. The Soviets agreed to the U.S. proposal."

Did we “request” that the soviets stop at the 38th parallel or DEMAND it?

its was that the communists dared not cross in 1945 when the US was so militarily powerful

but by 1950 we had stood down most of the WWII war machine and even foolishly publicly implied that south korea was not a vital national interest

that was like a green light for the communists to invade

 

[Mac-7]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

The soviets would never allow a non communist government in their half of korea

the Peoples Republic of Korea was never recognized by any nation on earth

 

[georgephillip]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

Don't you have to go run along and shave Ayatollah Asshollah's ass hairs?
Or maybe you need to shave Kim Dumb Wong's balls. Yes...that's it
View attachment 301704

President Snowflake: Trump Needs a Safe Space in Europe

What's he afraid of?

 

[The Original Tree]

your revisionist history that the soviets would have embraced any non communist government is fantasy

You are the one who's revising history.
In 1945 Koreans were ready to hold national elections to decide how they would administer their country without any outside interference. The Soviets had no problems.

The US responded with a military occupation of a war time ally and banned the upcoming elections organized by the People's Republic of Korea (PRK).

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …'

"'guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women;'

"'labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England [sic], and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2].65–6[3].88'"

Don't you have to go run along and shave Ayatollah Asshollah's ass hairs?
Or maybe you need to shave Kim Dumb Wong's balls. Yes...that's it
View attachment 301704

President Snowflake: Trump Needs a Safe Space in Europe

What's he afraid of?

what r u afraid of?

 

[georgephillip]

You are ignoring the reality that the communists in the north were absolutely not interested in a democratic government that represented the views of non communists

In 1950 that statement was true.
It was not true in 1945:

"DECEMBER 31, 2002
A Pop Quiz on Korea
by GARY LEUPP

"5. In accordance with a wartime agreement that the USSR would enter the war with Japan following the German surrender, Soviet forces invaded Korea in August, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10. They could easily have occupied the whole peninsula. What did they do?

"a. They accepted the Japanese surrender, provided arms to local communist forces led by Kim Il-sung, and withdrew within the year.

"b. They consulted with their American allies, who requested that they stop their advance at the 38th parallel, so that U.S. forces could in the next month occupy the rest of Korea. The Soviets agreed to the U.S. proposal."

Did we “request” that the soviets stop at the 38th parallel or DEMAND it?

its was that the communists dared not cross in 1945 when the US was so militarily powerful

but by 1950 we had stood down most of the WWII war machine and even foolishly publicly implied that south korea was not a vital national interest

that was like a green light for the communists to invade

Did we “request” that the soviets stop at the 38th parallel or DEMAND it?

its was that the communists dared not cross in 1945 when the US was so militarily powerful

What do you think the US would have done if the Soviets had liberated all of Korea, go to war against an ally who had just defeated Hitler?

Division of Korea - Wikipedia

"With the American government fearing Soviet expansion, and the Japanese authorities in Korea warning of a power vacuum, the embarkation date of the US occupation force was brought forward three times.[5]

"On 7 September 1945, General Douglas MacArthur announced that Lieutenant General John R. Hodge was to administer Korean affairs, and Hodge landed in Incheon with his troops the next day.

"The Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea, which had operated from China, sent a delegation with three interpreters to Hodge, but he refused to meet with them.[25]

"Likewise, Hodge refused to recognize the newly formed People's Republic of Korea and its People's Committees, and outlawed it on 12 December."

A majority of Koreans supported the PRK in 19445; how do you justify a US general denying that expression of popular sovereignty?

 

[LaDairis]

Rather be a democrat than a klan member

Robert KKKing of Pork Byrd was both....

 

[georgephillip]

but by 1950 we had stood down most of the WWII war machine and even foolishly publicly implied that south korea was not a vital national interest

that was like a green light for the communists to invade

Does it matter to you a majority of Koreans never wanted the US military occupation of their country in the first place?

United States Army Military Government in Korea - Wikipedia

"The United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK) was the official ruling body of the southern half of the Korean Peninsula from September 8, 1945 to August 15, 1948...."

"Popular discontent stemmed from the U.S. Military Government's support of the Japanese colonial government; then once removed, keeping the former Japanese governors on as advisors; by ignoring, censoring and forcibly disbanding the functional and popular People's Republic of Korea (PRK); and finally by supporting United Nations elections that divided the country.[1]"

 

[Mac-7]

You are ignoring the reality that the communists in the north were absolutely not interested in a democratic government that represented the views of non communists

In 1950 that statement was true.
It was not true in 1945:

"DECEMBER 31, 2002
A Pop Quiz on Korea
by GARY LEUPP

"5. In accordance with a wartime agreement that the USSR would enter the war with Japan following the German surrender, Soviet forces invaded Korea in August, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10. They could easily have occupied the whole peninsula. What did they do?

"a. They accepted the Japanese surrender, provided arms to local communist forces led by Kim Il-sung, and withdrew within the year.

"b. They consulted with their American allies, who requested that they stop their advance at the 38th parallel, so that U.S. forces could in the next month occupy the rest of Korea. The Soviets agreed to the U.S. proposal."

Did we “request” that the soviets stop at the 38th parallel or DEMAND it?

its was that the communists dared not cross in 1945 when the US was so militarily powerful

but by 1950 we had stood down most of the WWII war machine and even foolishly publicly implied that south korea was not a vital national interest

that was like a green light for the communists to invade

Did we “request” that the soviets stop at the 38th parallel or DEMAND it?

its was that the communists dared not cross in 1945 when the US was so militarily powerful

What do you think the US would have done if the Soviets had liberated all of Korea, go to war against an ally who had just defeated Hitler?

Division of Korea - Wikipedia

"With the American government fearing Soviet expansion, and the Japanese authorities in Korea warning of a power vacuum, the embarkation date of the US occupation force was brought forward three times.[5]

"On 7 September 1945, General Douglas MacArthur announced that Lieutenant General John R. Hodge was to administer Korean affairs, and Hodge landed in Incheon with his troops the next day.

"The Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea, which had operated from China, sent a delegation with three interpreters to Hodge, but he refused to meet with them.[25]

"Likewise, Hodge refused to recognize the newly formed People's Republic of Korea and its People's Committees, and outlawed it on 12 December."

A majority of Koreans supported the PRK in 19445; how do you justify a US general denying that expression of popular sovereignty?

Who says a majority of koreans supported the communist front group?

but you asked me a question

what would America have done if the soviets occupied all of korea?

I think we would have reacted the same way we did in 1950

it would have been war