The Common Denominator: Islam

[JoeB131]

[

It becomes a world problem when half the population of Syria have become Refugees either inside of Syria 6 million and over 3 million outside of Syria............

The spark that lit it.........was the beheading of our people and other countries people.......which is causing the strikes........

But here's the thing. If they hadn't beheaded those guys, we would not give a shit. Just like we haven't given a shit for the last few years this has dragged on.

Instead, we gave ISIL exactly what it wanted. Our involvement, so they people they are fighting can be seen as tools of the "Great Satan".

 

[Esmeralda]

[

It becomes a world problem when half the population of Syria have become Refugees either inside of Syria 6 million and over 3 million outside of Syria............

The spark that lit it.........was the beheading of our people and other countries people.......which is causing the strikes........

But here's the thing. If they hadn't beheaded those guys, we would not give a shit. Just like we haven't given a shit for the last few years this has dragged on.

Instead, we gave ISIL exactly what it wanted. Our involvement, so they people they are fighting can be seen as tools of the "Great Satan".

When people react, as the right wing on this board are doing, to the terrorism of ISIS, including the beheadings and other violence, the verbalizations about forming an Islamic state, etc., how they are going to be 'in' the US and Europe soon, etc., when people react to this with belief and fear, they are falling right into the hands of the terrorists; they are doing just what is wanted. The purpose of terrorism is to create terror. Most of the rightwingers I see on this board are doing exactly what ISIS wants.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Got a stat on how many murders are committed in the name of a major religion?

Only if you want to be selective? Do you want to blame Andrea Yates drowning her five kids on Christianity? Of course not. She did that because she was crazy.

Could you remind me of the passage in the Bible that offered her a reward in the afterlife for doing so?

No much for your absurd post.

Hmmm... Let's look at that.

Holmes said Rusty Yates considered child care a woman's responsibility and refused to help his wife tend the children. "I'm not saying he didn't play with them or enjoy them, but as far as care for them, he didn't," Holmes said. "If the kids' faces or hands were dirty, he'd say, 'Wait till your mother comes.' "

Therapist Earline Wilcott counseled Andrea Yates for months in a Christian center. The only time she met Rusty Yates, he quoted from the Bible: Wives must submit to their husbands. "Sense of [Andrea Yates] being overwhelmed and trapped with no alternative," Wilcott jotted in her notes.

"I hoped she could have more support from him in terms of helping with home school and having more time off," the therapist testified Thursday.

The religious tracts apparently wielded a heavy influence over the family's lifestyle. They were written by Michael Woroniecki, a preacher who roams college campuses with a message: "You are going to hell."

During his undergraduate years, Rusty Yates met Woroniecki on the grounds of Auburn University and the two struck up a friendship. They stayed in touch, and the preacher's wife exchanged letters with Andrea Yates.

The leaflets said women have a biblical duty to endure natural childbirth as a "humbling" rite of passage. Andrea Yates gave birth to all five of her children without the aid of medication.

Religious Zeal Infused Yates Lives Testimony Shows - Los Angeles Times

 

[eagle1462010]

[

It becomes a world problem when half the population of Syria have become Refugees either inside of Syria 6 million and over 3 million outside of Syria............

The spark that lit it.........was the beheading of our people and other countries people.......which is causing the strikes........

But here's the thing. If they hadn't beheaded those guys, we would not give a shit. Just like we haven't given a shit for the last few years this has dragged on.

Instead, we gave ISIL exactly what it wanted. Our involvement, so they people they are fighting can be seen as tools of the "Great Satan".

Of course they wanted to use it as a tool of recruitment...........But by doing so we are now raining death upon their heads and they are losing the initiative on the battle field that they were winning without our involvement.........It is an inept battle plan if that is their strategy........Our air power will greatly affect their ability to win the Civil War there.............They are probably hoping for a blunder by Assad and cause us to hit him instead, which has been the stated policy of Obama and this administration which will not end this conflict.

You are correct that the world has allowed this to escalate to the point of insanity as it is today.........The world decided to bring in Humanitarian relief without means of protection and it has caused nationals from many countries to be taken as hostages to be used as pawns in this conflict.........and used to cause world involvement by beheading foreigners to incite anger and blow back by the Western powers..............

In a nut shell it a damned mess.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The region is better off with Assad even though he's a dictator.......but the stated policy of Obama is his removal........as we hit ISIS who are his enemies while arming the FSA who are his enemies...........

I don't agree with arming any of the groups.............but I do agree with a pound of flesh for beheading our people.

On the other side of the spectrum the world has an obligation to attempt to stop Genocide which is clearly going on inside of Syria and has been going on for many years.............While it is a by product of War......we cannot turn a blind eye to it when we are literally talking about the fate of nearly 10 million people.

Okay. Are you willing to have someone you care about go over there and die in an attempt to stop it.

I'm not.

Are you willing to have a draft, to ration gasoline, to raise taxes, to live in a police state to catch those bad old terrorists PC thinks are hiding under her bed, in order to stop this bad old Genocide.

I'm not.

If the people of that region can't get together and agree that ISIL is so beyond the pale that they all need to team up and take them out with the Billions of Dollars in military hardware we and the Russians have been providing them, then I really don't see how that's our problem.

 

[bodecea]

Isn't it like them blaming all Westerners? And just as mature?

 

[eagle1462010]

[

It becomes a world problem when half the population of Syria have become Refugees either inside of Syria 6 million and over 3 million outside of Syria............

The spark that lit it.........was the beheading of our people and other countries people.......which is causing the strikes........

But here's the thing. If they hadn't beheaded those guys, we would not give a shit. Just like we haven't given a shit for the last few years this has dragged on.

Instead, we gave ISIL exactly what it wanted. Our involvement, so they people they are fighting can be seen as tools of the "Great Satan".

When people react, as the right wing on this board are doing, to the terrorism of ISIS, including the beheadings and other violence, the verbalizations about forming an Islamic state, etc., how they are going to be 'in' the US and Europe soon, etc., when people react to this with belief and fear, they are falling right into the hands of the terrorists; they are doing just what is wanted. The purpose of terrorism is to create terror. Most of the rightwingers I see on this board are doing exactly what ISIS wants.

You confuse fear with anger on the beheadings, and Genocide and rape of the people there in that country.

We don't fear ISIS on the battlefield as they are an inept fighting force against our military. But we are fing tired of fighting this chit and they know it. As it has now dragged on for over a decade...............

So we want to stop the insanity and at the same time are simply tired of having to deal with it at all.

We are damned if we do and damned if we don't...........which is why the middle east is quicksand..........No one has figured out how to end this chit from the world to date.......No one has the real solution.

Do we let the carnage continue......the genocide............until it takes its course or do we make it go away sooner by destroying many of them........and by doing so are we helping Assad, but but but we want him gone as well..............So we end up taking everyone out and leave a vacuum ensuring the thing never ends.............

It's all hell in a hand bag material.

 

[eagle1462010]

[

The region is better off with Assad even though he's a dictator.......but the stated policy of Obama is his removal........as we hit ISIS who are his enemies while arming the FSA who are his enemies...........

I don't agree with arming any of the groups.............but I do agree with a pound of flesh for beheading our people.

On the other side of the spectrum the world has an obligation to attempt to stop Genocide which is clearly going on inside of Syria and has been going on for many years.............While it is a by product of War......we cannot turn a blind eye to it when we are literally talking about the fate of nearly 10 million people.

Okay. Are you willing to have someone you care about go over there and die in an attempt to stop it.

I'm not.

Are you willing to have a draft, to ration gasoline, to raise taxes, to live in a police state to catch those bad old terrorists PC thinks are hiding under her bed, in order to stop this bad old Genocide.

I'm not.

If the people of that region can't get together and agree that ISIL is so beyond the pale that they all need to team up and take them out with the Billions of Dollars in military hardware we and the Russians have been providing them, then I really don't see how that's our problem.

That is a straw man argument......and a pound of flesh doesn't mean I want troops on the ground in Syria.......We pound ISIS and actually help Assad take the country back, but that isn't or current policy is it...................is it...............Obama is making it worse by pushing for the FSA to win the whole dang thing.

I don't like Assad, but he would be the lesser of evils in the end if he could restore order to the country........but too much blood has been spilled and the sides are going to fight to the bitter end so it is only going to end with the destruction of one or the other......No other way around it.

 

[JoeB131]

[

That is a straw man argument......and a pound of flesh doesn't mean I want troops on the ground in Syria.......We pound ISIS and actually help Assad take the country back, but that isn't or current policy is it...................is it...............Obama is making it worse by pushing for the FSA to win the whole dang thing.

I don't like Assad, but he would be the lesser of evils in the end if he could restore order to the country........but too much blood has been spilled and the sides are going to fight to the bitter end so it is only going to end with the destruction of one or the other......No other way around it.

Okay, but what do you think Assad is going to do to the Sunni and Kurd populations in Syria that were trying to overthrow him? Send them all a nice Fruit Basket?

No, he's going to murder the shit out of anyone who supported ISIL or any other anti-Assad faction.

 

[PoliticalChic]

[

It becomes a world problem when half the population of Syria have become Refugees either inside of Syria 6 million and over 3 million outside of Syria............

The spark that lit it.........was the beheading of our people and other countries people.......which is causing the strikes........

But here's the thing. If they hadn't beheaded those guys, we would not give a shit. Just like we haven't given a shit for the last few years this has dragged on.

Instead, we gave ISIL exactly what it wanted. Our involvement, so they people they are fighting can be seen as tools of the "Great Satan".

When people react, as the right wing on this board are doing, to the terrorism of ISIS, including the beheadings and other violence, the verbalizations about forming an Islamic state, etc., how they are going to be 'in' the US and Europe soon, etc., when people react to this with belief and fear, they are falling right into the hands of the terrorists; they are doing just what is wanted. The purpose of terrorism is to create terror. Most of the rightwingers I see on this board are doing exactly what ISIS wants.

Post #558 is not just for ErroneousJoe's edification.....but for yours, as well.

 

[PoliticalChic]

[

Got a stat on how many murders are committed in the name of a major religion?

Only if you want to be selective? Do you want to blame Andrea Yates drowning her five kids on Christianity? Of course not. She did that because she was crazy.

Could you remind me of the passage in the Bible that offered her a reward in the afterlife for doing so?

No much for your absurd post.

Hmmm... Let's look at that.

Holmes said Rusty Yates considered child care a woman's responsibility and refused to help his wife tend the children. "I'm not saying he didn't play with them or enjoy them, but as far as care for them, he didn't," Holmes said. "If the kids' faces or hands were dirty, he'd say, 'Wait till your mother comes.' "

Therapist Earline Wilcott counseled Andrea Yates for months in a Christian center. The only time she met Rusty Yates, he quoted from the Bible: Wives must submit to their husbands. "Sense of [Andrea Yates] being overwhelmed and trapped with no alternative," Wilcott jotted in her notes.

"I hoped she could have more support from him in terms of helping with home school and having more time off," the therapist testified Thursday.

The religious tracts apparently wielded a heavy influence over the family's lifestyle. They were written by Michael Woroniecki, a preacher who roams college campuses with a message: "You are going to hell."

During his undergraduate years, Rusty Yates met Woroniecki on the grounds of Auburn University and the two struck up a friendship. They stayed in touch, and the preacher's wife exchanged letters with Andrea Yates.

The leaflets said women have a biblical duty to endure natural childbirth as a "humbling" rite of passage. Andrea Yates gave birth to all five of her children without the aid of medication.

Religious Zeal Infused Yates Lives Testimony Shows - Los Angeles Times

Could you remind me of the passage in the Bible that offered her a reward in the afterlife for doing so?

 

[eagle1462010]

[

That is a straw man argument......and a pound of flesh doesn't mean I want troops on the ground in Syria.......We pound ISIS and actually help Assad take the country back, but that isn't or current policy is it...................is it...............Obama is making it worse by pushing for the FSA to win the whole dang thing.

I don't like Assad, but he would be the lesser of evils in the end if he could restore order to the country........but too much blood has been spilled and the sides are going to fight to the bitter end so it is only going to end with the destruction of one or the other......No other way around it.

Okay, but what do you think Assad is going to do to the Sunni and Kurd populations in Syria that were trying to overthrow him? Send them all a nice Fruit Basket?

No, he's going to murder the shit out of anyone who supported ISIL or any other anti-Assad faction.

Which part of one side being destroyed to end this didn't you understand. That is War..........In all it's barbarity...........And one side will not fair thee well in the outcome......................

To our current policy............Obama's............The place is on fire..........He fights the fire with ISIS with fire..............Then pours GASOLINE on the other side of the equation by arming the FSA and wanting Assad gone.................

I'm asking you POINT BLANK..............Is Obama WRONG ON HIS CURRENT STRATEGY.......................

 

[JWBooth]

Common Denominator?

Involvement around the globe by the blind bull in a china shop, US foreign policy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Isn't it like them blaming all Westerners? And just as mature?

What happens to Westerners who embrace Islam, you know....the religion of peace?

"Following Ayatollah Khomeini's 14 February 1989 death fatwa against author Salman Rushdie, convert to Islam and recording artist Yusuf Islam, previously known as Cat Stevens, made statements that were interpreted [Liberal obfuscation!] as endorsing the killing of Rushdie."
Cat Stevens comments about Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at
Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."
Philadelphia Inquirer, 24 February 1989, p.5A



"LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.... He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.''
Cat Stevens Gives Support To Call for Death of Rushdie



Please do go on about how one should not blame all adherents to Islam.....

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't it like them blaming all Westerners? And just as mature?

What happens to Westerners who embrace Islam, you know....the religion of peace?

"Following Ayatollah Khomeini's 14 February 1989 death fatwa against author Salman Rushdie, convert to Islam and recording artist Yusuf Islam, previously known as Cat Stevens, made statements that were interpreted [Liberal obfuscation!] as endorsing the killing of Rushdie."
Cat Stevens comments about Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at
Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."
Philadelphia Inquirer, 24 February 1989, p.5A



"LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.... He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.''
Cat Stevens Gives Support To Call for Death of Rushdie



Please do go on about how one should not blame all adherents to Islam.....

One shouldn't because nothing in your post even comes close to making all Muslims blameworthy.

Hitler blamed all the Jews, so I guess at least we have precedent for this manner of assigning blame.

 

[eagle1462010]

It appears I hit a raw nerve ending with Joe.........His opinions posted do not match the Obama policy on Syria...........Which is why I asked him the Point Blank Question.

Will he answer, or leave the debate because his opinions just ditched the one he praises all the time.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Common Denominator?

Involvement around the globe by the blind bull in a china shop, US foreign policy.

For clarity....is it your position that there would be no violence from Islam sans American foreign policy?

Is that your position?


You might want to consider this before you respond:

1.According to Robert Davis, between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 19th centuries
Davis, Robert. "Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500–1800"



2. In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they inquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran,that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.

He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

"American Peace Commissioners to John Jay," March 28, 1786, "Thomas Jefferson Papers," Series 1. General Correspondence. 1651–1827, Library of Congress. LoC: March 28, 1786 (handwritten).
^ Making of America Project; Philip Gengembre Hubert (1872). The Atlantic monthly. Atlantic Monthly Co.. p. 413 (typeset) (some sources confirm this wording,[15][16] other sources report this quotation with slight differences in wording

 

[PoliticalChic]

Isn't it like them blaming all Westerners? And just as mature?

What happens to Westerners who embrace Islam, you know....the religion of peace?

"Following Ayatollah Khomeini's 14 February 1989 death fatwa against author Salman Rushdie, convert to Islam and recording artist Yusuf Islam, previously known as Cat Stevens, made statements that were interpreted [Liberal obfuscation!] as endorsing the killing of Rushdie."
Cat Stevens comments about Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at
Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."
Philadelphia Inquirer, 24 February 1989, p.5A



"LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.... He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.''
Cat Stevens Gives Support To Call for Death of Rushdie



Please do go on about how one should not blame all adherents to Islam.....

One shouldn't because nothing in your post even comes close to making all Muslims blameworthy.

Hitler blamed all the Jews, so I guess at least we have precedent for this manner of assigning blame.

Another nugatory post from a nugatory individual.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't it like them blaming all Westerners? And just as mature?

What happens to Westerners who embrace Islam, you know....the religion of peace?

"Following Ayatollah Khomeini's 14 February 1989 death fatwa against author Salman Rushdie, convert to Islam and recording artist Yusuf Islam, previously known as Cat Stevens, made statements that were interpreted [Liberal obfuscation!] as endorsing the killing of Rushdie."
Cat Stevens comments about Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at
Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."
Philadelphia Inquirer, 24 February 1989, p.5A



"LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.... He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.''
Cat Stevens Gives Support To Call for Death of Rushdie



Please do go on about how one should not blame all adherents to Islam.....

One shouldn't because nothing in your post even comes close to making all Muslims blameworthy.

Hitler blamed all the Jews, so I guess at least we have precedent for this manner of assigning blame.

Another nugatory post from a nugatory individual.

Do you disagree that Hitler blamed all Jews? Was that a good idea, in principle?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't it like them blaming all Westerners? And just as mature?

What happens to Westerners who embrace Islam, you know....the religion of peace?

"Following Ayatollah Khomeini's 14 February 1989 death fatwa against author Salman Rushdie, convert to Islam and recording artist Yusuf Islam, previously known as Cat Stevens, made statements that were interpreted [Liberal obfuscation!] as endorsing the killing of Rushdie."
Cat Stevens comments about Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at
Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."
Philadelphia Inquirer, 24 February 1989, p.5A



"LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.... He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.''
Cat Stevens Gives Support To Call for Death of Rushdie



Please do go on about how one should not blame all adherents to Islam.....

One shouldn't because nothing in your post even comes close to making all Muslims blameworthy.

Hitler blamed all the Jews, so I guess at least we have precedent for this manner of assigning blame.

Another nugatory post from a nugatory individual.

Isn't the common denominator of evil North Korea that they're all Koreans?