The college scam

[gipper]

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The reason why many foreigners think it's valuable is because the education in other countries isn't so good.

But other countries might be catching up, or at least directing their students towards skills that are necessary.

DIRECTING STUDENTS TOWARDS WHAT IS NECESSARY. That is essentially my point, But schools in the US are not focused on silly courses; however, humanities and art courses are essential. What good is engineering, medicine, dentistry, business when we have no sense of art and culture? Students need to choose good schools and good professors; they need to work hard and understand their own goals. You people think that education is like trade school, just preparing people for a job. Education, a good edcuation, is far more than that.

You are dreaming.

 

[gipper]

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The point is that we have some of the best universities in the world. And generally speaking, better than most around the world. It is what you put into it. My nephew, an American, is a dentist now with a successful practice, making a very good income. He went to an average state school that gets more recognition of sports than academics, but he worked hard. He's not extremely intelligent, but he put in what was needed and works hard at his career. Success is what you put into things, not what is spoon fed you.

No one disputes that we have some of the best universities in the world. Why the straw man argument?

This does not in any way, disprove that many of our colleges and universities are not very good and nearly all are cost prohibitive.

On average, our college and universities are better than most in the world. That is the truth.

Again...so what?

You continue to state a straw man argument.

 

[Votto]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The point is that we have some of the best universities in the world. And generally speaking, better than most around the world. It is what you put into it. My nephew, an American, is a dentist now with a successful practice, making a very good income. He went to an average state school that gets more recognition of sports than academics, but he worked hard. He's not extremely intelligent, but he put in what was needed and works hard at his career. Success is what you put into things, not what is spoon fed you.

Yep, nothing but the best, kinda like Butler that is offering this Anti-Trump coarse.

Anti-Trump course at Butler University offers 'strategies for resistance'

Students paying roughly $36,000 in tuition have signed up for a “Special Topics” class titled “Trumpism & U.S. Democracy.” The course, which begins in August and runs until December, explicitly charges the Republican with “perpetuating sexism, white supremacy, xenophobia, nationalism, nativism, and imperialism.”

 

[Esmeralda]

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The reason why many foreigners think it's valuable is because the education in other countries isn't so good.

But other countries might be catching up, or at least directing their students towards skills that are necessary.

DIRECTING STUDENTS TOWARDS WHAT IS NECESSARY. That is essentially my point, But schools in the US are not focused on silly courses; however, humanities and art courses are essential. What good is engineering, medicine, dentistry, business when we have no sense of art and culture? Students need to choose good schools and good professors; they need to work hard and understand their own goals. You people think that education is like trade school, just preparing people for a job. Education, a good edcuation, is far more than that.

You are dreaming.

Dreaming am I? I'm the one with 30 years direct experience in this area.

 

[Esmeralda]

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The point is that we have some of the best universities in the world. And generally speaking, better than most around the world. It is what you put into it. My nephew, an American, is a dentist now with a successful practice, making a very good income. He went to an average state school that gets more recognition of sports than academics, but he worked hard. He's not extremely intelligent, but he put in what was needed and works hard at his career. Success is what you put into things, not what is spoon fed you.

No one disputes that we have some of the best universities in the world. Why the straw man argument?

This does not in any way, disprove that many of our colleges and universities are not very good and nearly all are cost prohibitive.

On average, our college and universities are better than most in the world. That is the truth.

Again...so what?

You continue to state a straw man argument.

Apparently you don't understand what a strawman argument is.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The reason why many foreigners think it's valuable is because the education in other countries isn't so good.

But other countries might be catching up, or at least directing their students towards skills that are necessary.

DIRECTING STUDENTS TOWARDS WHAT IS NECESSARY. That is essentially my point, But schools in the US are not focused on silly courses; however, humanities and art courses are essential. What good is engineering, medicine, dentistry, business when we have no sense of art and culture? Students need to choose good schools and good professors; they need to work hard and understand their own goals. You people think that education is like trade school, just preparing people for a job. Education, a good edcuation, is far more than that.

Art is actually very important. How many things require art?

Lots and lots and lots. You have to remember the Chinese are rising and there's as much creativity in China as in your little finger, they're bleeding kids dry at school with math, English, Chinese, Science homework, and beating any creativity out of their bones.

 

[Windparadox]

If you think only for-profit colleges are the problem. You are incapable of thinking.

`
Read. I didn't say they were the only abusers, I said they were the "biggest" abusers.

 

[gipper]

If you think only for-profit colleges are the problem. You are incapable of thinking.

`
Read. I didn't say they were the only abusers, I said they were the "biggest" abusers.

Prove it.

 

[gipper]

Does this look sustainable? Is it fair? Is it right? Thank a LWNJ college professor or administrator, if you think so. Thank big government too.

Of Two Minds - How Higher Education Became an Obscenely Profitable Racket That Enriches the Few at the Expense of the Many (Student Debt-Serfs)

While the higher-ed status quo is failing the students, it's enriching itself immensely. Assistant deans of student loans and thousands of other administrators who we managed to do without a generation ago are raking in huge salaries and fat benefits/pensions.

Meanwhile, over in the financial racket that's enabled functionaries to skim $200,000 a year for doing essentially nothing remotely related to students actually learning anything remotely applicable in the real-world economy, student loan lenders are skimming tens of billions in profits guaranteed by the taxpayers. Yes, tens of billions: $140 billion in pure guaranteed profit has been skimmed off the hapless student debt-serfs herded into the shearing machine known as higher education.

There is something Kafka-esque and Orwellian about calling this vast machine for reaping taxpayer-guaranteed obscene profits "higher education."

 

[gipper]

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The point is that we have some of the best universities in the world. And generally speaking, better than most around the world. It is what you put into it. My nephew, an American, is a dentist now with a successful practice, making a very good income. He went to an average state school that gets more recognition of sports than academics, but he worked hard. He's not extremely intelligent, but he put in what was needed and works hard at his career. Success is what you put into things, not what is spoon fed you.

No one disputes that we have some of the best universities in the world. Why the straw man argument?

This does not in any way, disprove that many of our colleges and universities are not very good and nearly all are cost prohibitive.

On average, our college and universities are better than most in the world. That is the truth.

Again...so what?

You continue to state a straw man argument.

Apparently you don't understand what a strawman argument is.

Yet you clearly made one.

You are arguing something no one disputes. See? Now you know what a straw man argument is?

 

[deanrd]

I just loled...

You're probably a nobody and a high school drop out. Takes nerve.

Colleges produce our
-doctors
-Executives in the business world.
-scientist
-engineers
-Computer techs like me
-Chemist
-Meteorologist
-Geologist
-and the list can go on for the another 100 thousand words.


I am betting that you're one of those religious fuckers that believes one shouldn't understand anything besides the bible. lol

Being a Truck Driver is a good job. Some Truck Driver's really enjoy their profession. They drive and sing and listen to music and look at the scenery.

Others find it gives them so much time to think, they convince themselves that life isn't fair and they are failures. And the things they failed at must be bad because that's why they failed.

 

[deanrd]

What's especially funny is that Hillary and Bernie both had plans to pay for college and make college available for all Americans.

But people who voted for Trump, believed he could get them high paying jobs that required no education. What they have referred to in the past as "free stuff".

Most Republicans didn't know that under Bill Clinton, welfare was reformed. You can't just get it. You have to work for it. Well,now they do, with so many Republi-can'ts being on welfare and all.

 

[gipper]

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Means nothing. So what if foreigners THINK it is valuable? This in no way proves that the education provided today is as good as it was decades ago, nor does it dispute that the cost has become prohibitive.

The point is that we have some of the best universities in the world. And generally speaking, better than most around the world. It is what you put into it. My nephew, an American, is a dentist now with a successful practice, making a very good income. He went to an average state school that gets more recognition of sports than academics, but he worked hard. He's not extremely intelligent, but he put in what was needed and works hard at his career. Success is what you put into things, not what is spoon fed you.

No one disputes that we have some of the best universities in the world. Why the straw man argument?

This does not in any way, disprove that many of our colleges and universities are not very good and nearly all are cost prohibitive.

On average, our college and universities are better than most in the world. That is the truth.

Straw-man!!!

 

[gipper]

I just loled...

You're probably a nobody and a high school drop out. Takes nerve.

Colleges produce our
-doctors
-Executives in the business world.
-scientist
-engineers
-Computer techs like me
-Chemist
-Meteorologist
-Geologist
-and the list can go on for the another 100 thousand words.


I am betting that you're one of those religious fuckers that believes one shouldn't understand anything besides the bible. lol

Being a Truck Driver is a good job. Some Truck Driver's really enjoy their profession. They drive and sing and listen to music and look at the scenery.

Others find it gives them so much time to think, they convince themselves that life isn't fair and they are failures. And the things they failed at must be bad because that's why they failed.

True...being a truck driver in the age of corruption (aka Age of Obama), is now considered a good job.

 

[gipper]

What's especially funny is that Hillary and Bernie both had plans to pay for college and make college available for all Americans.

But people who voted for Trump, believed he could get them high paying jobs that required no education. What they have referred to in the past as "free stuff".

Most Republicans didn't know that under Bill Clinton, welfare was reformed. You can't just get it. You have to work for it. Well,now they do, with so many Republi-can'ts being on welfare and all.

Your boy Obama removed Bubba's work requirement...thus buying votes from the poor.

What a great guy Obama is.

 

[Pop23]

I just loled...

You're probably a nobody and a high school drop out. Takes nerve.

Colleges produce our
-doctors
-Executives in the business world.
-scientist
-engineers
-Computer techs like me
-Chemist
-Meteorologist
-Geologist
-and the list can go on for the another 100 thousand words.


I am betting that you're one of those religious fuckers that believes one shouldn't understand anything besides the bible. lol

Hyperbole much?
I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend.
Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

When college became a right of passage then the schools could charge as much as they wanted without delivering quality. Especially when they could con parents and students with cheap interest loans.

We asked for it and got it.

 

[Windparadox]

Prove it.

`
Fair enough. The word "biggest" is a subjective term. When it comes to scamming or defrauding students who use grants and loans, how does one measure that? I use the metric of "lawsuits". I can post five articles, from five different sources, reporting on successful or pending lawsuits against "for profit" colleges.

For-Profit Colleges Have a New Way to Hoodwink Students

For-Profit Colleges Accused of Fraud Still Receive U.S. Funds

For-profit colleges under fire in lawsuits

For-profit college settles class-action lawsuit

Whistleblower lawsuit claims for-profit college ITT defrauding students​

I cannot find any news about private or public colleges and universities engaging in such wide spread abuse of grants and loans.
`
`
nd loans.
`

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Prove it.

`
Fair enough. The word "biggest" is a subjective term. When it comes to scamming or defrauding students who use grants and loans, how does one measure that? I use the metric of "lawsuits". I can post five articles, from five different sources, reporting on successful or pending lawsuits against "for profit" colleges.

For-Profit Colleges Have a New Way to Hoodwink Students

For-Profit Colleges Accused of Fraud Still Receive U.S. Funds

For-profit colleges under fire in lawsuits

For-profit college settles class-action lawsuit

Whistleblower lawsuit claims for-profit college ITT defrauding students​

I cannot find any news about private or public colleges and universities engaging in such wide spread abuse of grants and loans.
`
`
nd loans.
`

I'm confused, you wanted me to prove that colleges are more interested in continuing the flow of tuition dollars than graduating qualified students...but then making a different argument...provide links saying that very thing in some schools???
Some people would call that trolling.

 

[gipper]

Prove it.

`
Fair enough. The word "biggest" is a subjective term. When it comes to scamming or defrauding students who use grants and loans, how does one measure that? I use the metric of "lawsuits". I can post five articles, from five different sources, reporting on successful or pending lawsuits against "for profit" colleges.

For-Profit Colleges Have a New Way to Hoodwink Students

For-Profit Colleges Accused of Fraud Still Receive U.S. Funds

For-profit colleges under fire in lawsuits

For-profit college settles class-action lawsuit

Whistleblower lawsuit claims for-profit college ITT defrauding students​

I cannot find any news about private or public colleges and universities engaging in such wide spread abuse of grants and loans.
`
`
nd loans.
`

thank you.

However we need to define abuse. I consider it abusive for public colleges and universities charging enormous sums for an education.

As I posted above, few things in our society have gone up in cost, like college tuition. It is a racket no matter if it is done by for-profit or otherwise.


There is something Kafka-esque and Orwellian about calling this vast machine for reaping taxpayer-guaranteed obscene profits "higher education."

 

[MarathonMike]

For the record I have a degree and my oldest son just graduated with a Math degree and will be starting his career in Engineering next month.
-BUT-
had he not tested highly all through high school, I would have had no problem sending him to a tech or a trade school. He worked construction all summer and learned a ton about redoing houses. There are many paths to success and they don't necessarily include college.

If you don't mind me asking how is he going into Engineering with a math degree?

I know of people with a hard science Bachelors getting an Engineering Masters, is this the case here?

Good question. No he just has a Bachelors. He graduated cum laude with strong references from his professors. The group does modeling and sim so they are more math oriented than most engineering departments.