The Christian Tithe ripoff.

[hadit]

God does not have any money ; what's God going to do with money?

Give it to the churches, they seem desperate. Kinda like a homeless person with his hand out all the time.

You need to actually experience Church instead of relying on what you see on TV.

I used to go to church, they asked for a handout every single time. It was pretty annoying. Like guys, get a job.

That is their job, if they have staff positions and paid pastors. Caring about people, listening to their problems, giving them counsel, preparing sermons, visiting the sick, etc are time intensive things to do. Doesn't leave much time to work a second job.

It sure leaves lots of time to be a pedophile though. Why is that?

Ah, now I know what you're really referring to, which is the massive, wealthy, very powerful Catholic Church. I am not a Catholic and am not affiliated with them at all.

 

[hadit]

If the church needs money, why don't they ask god? He a cheapskate or something?

Because God expects us to make use of the abilities He gave us.

What ability is it to pass around a plate demanding money?

See, that's where you're wrong. I have yet to be part of a church that demanded money.

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

 

[hadit]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

 

[hadit]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

Well, I am not doing so. I am stating that there are congregations that are indeed more worried about money, power and prestige than the lost, and Christ will deal with them, as you pointed out from Rev. I am, however, also stating that there are congregations that are less worried about money than they are about the lost and about discipling the faithful. You're basically throwing the baby out with the bath water by declaring ALL congregations guilty because some are.

The prosperity gospel is a crock as far as I am concerned. God chooses to bless financially whom He will bless and His criteria are not ours. I do believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give, but I will not say that if you give X amount, you will receive Y amount.

 

[Mudda]

If the church needs money, why don't they ask god? He a cheapskate or something?

Because God expects us to make use of the abilities He gave us.

What ability is it to pass around a plate demanding money?

See, that's where you're wrong. I have yet to be part of a church that demanded money.

Is that the church of the brokeass mountain?

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

Well, I am not doing so. I am stating that there are congregations that are indeed more worried about money, power and prestige than the lost, and Christ will deal with them, as you pointed out from Rev. I am, however, also stating that there are congregations that are less worried about money than they are about the lost and about discipling the faithful. You're basically throwing the baby out with the bath water by declaring ALL congregations guilty because some are.

The prosperity gospel is a crock as far as I am concerned. God chooses to bless financially whom He will bless and His criteria are not ours. I do believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give, but I will not say that if you give X amount, you will receive Y amount.

Can you list 10 bible verses which state God blesses those who give?

I mean , just 10? I am curious to see them.

Oh and if you can , 10 verses that state God will bless you if you give money to a church.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I have a solution.............if you don't want to tithe, don't go to church and seek out God on your own.

Yes, it is possible.

 

[Mickiel]

I have a solution.............if you don't want to tithe, don't go to church and seek out God on your own.

Yes, it is possible.

Of course its possible ; in my view a person curious about God would be better off avoiding churches and study on their own. That way they would not be affected with human meddling. Bypass all the junk that is in others and don't let them pour that mess into you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I have a solution.............if you don't want to tithe, don't go to church and seek out God on your own.

Yes, it is possible.

Of course its possible ; in my view a person curious about God would be better off avoiding churches and study on their own. That way they would not be affected with human meddling. Bypass all the junk that is in others and don't let them pour that mess into you.

Actually, that's kinda how I came to my current belief in God. As a child, I was shifted around from family to family (was in foster care after I was orphaned at 8), and every family I was placed in would tell me that the beliefs of the family I just left were wrong and that I now had to believe as they did.

I quit church at 16 because of that.

Later, because I still knew there was something out there that was bigger than me, I started to look at other belief systems until I found one that suited me, which was Tao. In studying Tao, I saw where all belief systems were pretty much similar.........they all have some form of a deity that watches over us, we should take care of others, not lie, cheat, steal or murder, and that if we do good here, we will go somewhere better when we shuffle off our mortal coil. If not, we go somewhere else.

Now? I like to listen to rabbis, some preachers, study Judaism, Buddhism, Tao, and parts of Christianity. The place where I part ways with certain belief systems is when they get mired down in their own dogma. My belief? The only "sin" that there is, is what is outlined in the 10 Commandments or the 7 Noahide Commandments. Anything else is just a vice, which if followed long enough, can cause you to sin.

Besides...................I firmly think that God is too big to be contained in just 1 dogma, and I also think that He speaks to each of us in a unique way, because as humans, we are all just a little bit different, and have differing views of how we perceive the world.

And..................if we are all alike, we are drones and clones, and God doesn't want that, because if He didn't, we wouldn't have free will.

 

[Mickiel]

I don't believe in free will myself, but I agree that God is too much to be contained in anything human other than Christ.

 

[Mickiel]

I don't believe in free will myself, but I agree that God is too much to be contained in anything human other than Christ.

Free will is described as the capability to decide for yourself , without having outside influences on you mind, Which I think is impossible. The mind has to be your own; no 0ther thinking can invade your own.
A free wil is wide ,now your thinking is invaded and wide open to manipulation

 

[hadit]

If the church needs money, why don't they ask god? He a cheapskate or something?

Because God expects us to make use of the abilities He gave us.

What ability is it to pass around a plate demanding money?

See, that's where you're wrong. I have yet to be part of a church that demanded money.

Is that the church of the brokeass mountain?

Which one, the one I said I was never a part of?

 

[Mickiel]

There are no scriptures in the New covenant where God or Christ commands the church to tithe, not in the bible ; but you see , sheep like members are following the commands of their leaders to tithe; their leaders are as meaningful as the bible to them.

 

[hadit]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

Well, I am not doing so. I am stating that there are congregations that are indeed more worried about money, power and prestige than the lost, and Christ will deal with them, as you pointed out from Rev. I am, however, also stating that there are congregations that are less worried about money than they are about the lost and about discipling the faithful. You're basically throwing the baby out with the bath water by declaring ALL congregations guilty because some are.

The prosperity gospel is a crock as far as I am concerned. God chooses to bless financially whom He will bless and His criteria are not ours. I do believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give, but I will not say that if you give X amount, you will receive Y amount.

Can you list 10 bible verses which state God blesses those who give?

I mean , just 10? I am curious to see them.

Oh and if you can , 10 verses that state God will bless you if you give money to a church.

1. Note that I did not say "God promises to enrich those who give to a church". I said I believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give. I say that from personal experience. There is a promise to Israel, however, that God will bless them if they are faithful, and we know that God does not change. From Malachi 3:

8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.

“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

2. Consider this passage from 2 Corinthians 9:

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”
10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

12 This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14 And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

This is the model from the early Church. From Acts 2:

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

Is it any wonder those outside the Church can't understand why Christians today are expected to be generous, and should be giving to help those in need? Is it any wonder that charlatans pop up and try to scam the faithful? So why do we give to a Church today? Because the Church is world wide and there is no one organization to give to any more. We give to our local congregations so they can carry on the work in our communities, as well as around the world.

I'm ignoring your "10 verses" thing. That's simplistic.

 

[hadit]

There are no scriptures in the New covenant where God or Christ commands the church to tithe, not in the bible ; but you see , sheep like members are following the commands of their leaders to tithe; their leaders are as meaningful as the bible to them.

Note that I am not disputing that, but as I posted, God DOES expect His people to be generous, and not to keep what we have for ourselves when others are in need. The local Church is one organization that Christians can give to that then helps those in need. In fact, the tithe can be considered both a floor and a ceiling. Under the law, you were expected to give 10%, but that was it. Under Christ, you're simply expected to be generous, and that doesn't stop at 10%.

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian tithe is a rip off from the old testament practice of giving food to the priest , they changed it on their own to giving money to the clergy. Neither God or Christ EVER made that change. And no theologian can disagree with this, only ignorant money changers would disagree.

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

Well, I am not doing so. I am stating that there are congregations that are indeed more worried about money, power and prestige than the lost, and Christ will deal with them, as you pointed out from Rev. I am, however, also stating that there are congregations that are less worried about money than they are about the lost and about discipling the faithful. You're basically throwing the baby out with the bath water by declaring ALL congregations guilty because some are.

The prosperity gospel is a crock as far as I am concerned. God chooses to bless financially whom He will bless and His criteria are not ours. I do believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give, but I will not say that if you give X amount, you will receive Y amount.

Can you list 10 bible verses which state God blesses those who give?

I mean , just 10? I am curious to see them.

Oh and if you can , 10 verses that state God will bless you if you give money to a church.

1. Note that I did not say "God promises to enrich those who give to a church". I said I believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give. I say that from personal experience. There is a promise to Israel, however, that God will bless them if they are faithful, and we know that God does not change. From Malachi 3:

8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.

“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

2. Consider this passage from 2 Corinthians 9:

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”
10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

12 This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14 And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

This is the model from the early Church. From Acts 2:

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

Is it any wonder those outside the Church can't understand why Christians today are expected to be generous, and should be giving to help those in need? Is it any wonder that charlatans pop up and try to scam the faithful? So why do we give to a Church today? Because the Church is world wide and there is no one organization to give to any more. We give to our local congregations so they can carry on the work in our communities, as well as around the world.

I'm ignoring your "10 verses" thing. That's simplistic.

Your ignoring it because its the smart thing to do; there are not ten verses of God commanding the people to give money to a church; they are exactly NONE! But the Christian mind does not need a command from God , they just need a command from their ministry.

 

[hadit]

God still loves a cheerful giver. That has never changed, and giving to your home congregation enables them to spread the Gospel. It's really quite simple, and you shouldn't get so hung up on the Churches that have become perverted by money.

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

Well, I am not doing so. I am stating that there are congregations that are indeed more worried about money, power and prestige than the lost, and Christ will deal with them, as you pointed out from Rev. I am, however, also stating that there are congregations that are less worried about money than they are about the lost and about discipling the faithful. You're basically throwing the baby out with the bath water by declaring ALL congregations guilty because some are.

The prosperity gospel is a crock as far as I am concerned. God chooses to bless financially whom He will bless and His criteria are not ours. I do believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give, but I will not say that if you give X amount, you will receive Y amount.

Can you list 10 bible verses which state God blesses those who give?

I mean , just 10? I am curious to see them.

Oh and if you can , 10 verses that state God will bless you if you give money to a church.

1. Note that I did not say "God promises to enrich those who give to a church". I said I believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give. I say that from personal experience. There is a promise to Israel, however, that God will bless them if they are faithful, and we know that God does not change. From Malachi 3:

8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.

“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

2. Consider this passage from 2 Corinthians 9:

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”
10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

12 This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14 And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

This is the model from the early Church. From Acts 2:

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

Is it any wonder those outside the Church can't understand why Christians today are expected to be generous, and should be giving to help those in need? Is it any wonder that charlatans pop up and try to scam the faithful? So why do we give to a Church today? Because the Church is world wide and there is no one organization to give to any more. We give to our local congregations so they can carry on the work in our communities, as well as around the world.

I'm ignoring your "10 verses" thing. That's simplistic.

Your ignoring it because its the smart thing to do; there are not ten verses of God commanding the people to give money to a church; they are exactly NONE! But the Christian mind does not need a command from God , they just need a command from their ministry.

And you're clearly ignoring the Scriptures I posted. Read them.

 

[Mickiel]

I wonder why Jesus was so hung up on prosperity ministries in Rev.3:17 and his church being perverted with money? Well he hated it. This is why deceived believers will try to sweep this subject under the rug.

Well, I am not doing so. I am stating that there are congregations that are indeed more worried about money, power and prestige than the lost, and Christ will deal with them, as you pointed out from Rev. I am, however, also stating that there are congregations that are less worried about money than they are about the lost and about discipling the faithful. You're basically throwing the baby out with the bath water by declaring ALL congregations guilty because some are.

The prosperity gospel is a crock as far as I am concerned. God chooses to bless financially whom He will bless and His criteria are not ours. I do believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give, but I will not say that if you give X amount, you will receive Y amount.

Can you list 10 bible verses which state God blesses those who give?

I mean , just 10? I am curious to see them.

Oh and if you can , 10 verses that state God will bless you if you give money to a church.

1. Note that I did not say "God promises to enrich those who give to a church". I said I believe that God blesses and provides for those who faithfully give. I say that from personal experience. There is a promise to Israel, however, that God will bless them if they are faithful, and we know that God does not change. From Malachi 3:

8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.

“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

2. Consider this passage from 2 Corinthians 9:

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”
10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

12 This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14 And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

This is the model from the early Church. From Acts 2:

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

Is it any wonder those outside the Church can't understand why Christians today are expected to be generous, and should be giving to help those in need? Is it any wonder that charlatans pop up and try to scam the faithful? So why do we give to a Church today? Because the Church is world wide and there is no one organization to give to any more. We give to our local congregations so they can carry on the work in our communities, as well as around the world.

I'm ignoring your "10 verses" thing. That's simplistic.

Your ignoring it because its the smart thing to do; there are not ten verses of God commanding the people to give money to a church; they are exactly NONE! But the Christian mind does not need a command from God , they just need a command from their ministry.

And you're clearly ignoring the Scriptures I posted. Read them.

God is not against giving, but God has NEVER commanded his people to tithe to a church , Jesus NEVER taught tithing to a church , and neither God or Christ EVER taught that they would bless you if you tithe. You cannot produce these scriptures , because they don't exist in the bible; but Christians don't need things to be in the bible, only to be in their belief. Like the Trinity ; no where in the bible period , but every where in Christian belief.