"The Chicago Way"(Ayers in perpspective)

[CrimsonWhite]

David Frum is alright for a canuck. This should be McCain's message.

My pals over at the Corner are very excited by the last-minute attempt to transform Bill Ayers into the Willie Horton of 2008. Well, good luck

In 1988, crime was a huge and rising problem - and Democrats still by and large resisted the effective crime control policies being developed at places like the Manhattan Institute and that would achieve such great results in the 1990s. So Willie Horton, the furloughed rapist and murderer, symbolized in very graphic terms something important and significant about Michael Dukakis the candidate.

But Bill Ayers? Does anybody really seriously believe that Barack Obama is a secret left-wing radical? And if not, then what is this fuss and fury supposed to show? It's like Ronald Reagan's opponents trying to beat him by pointing out that Birchers once supported him.

Negative campaigning only works when it offers a new data point to support a convincingly drawn hostile image.

So try this instead: The real problem with Barack Obama is not that he's a bomb-thrower, but that he's a product of the "Chicago way."

David Frum's Diary on National Review Online

 

[DavidS]

David Frum is alright for a canuck. This should be McCain's message.

Obama's ties to the Daley-Kennedy clan are well-known. Hell, the woman who chaired his VP pick committee was a Kennedy. Ted Kennedy was HUGE in getting Obama nominated. Caroline Kennedy said Obama reminded her of her father.

The Kennedy's ties to Chicago are well-known.

This isn't big news.

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2008/01/a-political-cul.html

 

[Luissa]

David Frum is alright for a canuck. This should be McCain's message.

Every politician has corrupt friends big freaking deal! WHat is new? Name one President who didn't have one corrupt friend or radical. I am sure even Jimmie Carter had some corrupt people in his pocket. YOu think getting elected President is easy or getting to the position where it is possible.

 

[Ravi]

The real problem with Barack Obama is not that he's a bomb-thrower

wtf? He isn't a bomb thrower. What a disingenuous piece of garbage.

 

[Modbert]

According to "The Untouchables" with Kevin Costner as Eliot Ness and Sean Connery as Jim Malone.

This is "Thah Chicago Way"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0RLyxP13o]YouTube - The Chicago Way[/ame]

 

[CrimsonWhite]

wtf? He isn't a bomb thrower. What a disingenuous piece of garbage.

Wow, you read that completely out of context. Are you really that stupid?

 

[Silence]

Wow, you read that completely out of context. Are you really that stupid?

how about hyper-sensitive instead of stupid?

The sentence doesn't imply that Obama is a bomb-thrower, in fact it says he's not and the real problem is trying to tie him to Ayers instead of the corrupt underbelly of Chicago.

but I agree that the very idea that ANY politican who reaches this level in the poltical arena is completely clean is laughable at best.

I think Jimmy Carter might be the closet we ever got and even he wasn't squeaky clean.

Obama proved he can play hardball like any other politican when he had Alice Palmer kicked off the ballot when she tried to insert herself back into the race for state legislature after basically handing the reigns over to Obama. He kicked her right in the nuts (so to speak) and he earned a lot fo ire for that from Chicago insiders.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

how about hyper-sensitive instead of stupid?

The sentence doesn't imply that Obama is a bomb-thrower, in fact it says he's not and the real problem is trying to tie him to Ayers instead of the corrupt underbelly of Chicago.

but I agree that the very idea that ANY politican who reaches this level in the poltical arena is completely clean is laughable at best.

I think Jimmy Carter might be the closet we ever got and even he wasn't squeaky clean.

Obama proved he can play hardball like any other politican when he had Alice Palmer kicked off the ballot when she tried to insert herself back into the race for state legislature after basically handing the reigns over to Obama. He kicked her right in the nuts (so to speak) and he earned a lot fo ire for that from Chicago insiders.

Exactly. The Ayers connection is irrelevent at this point. However, hammering Obama on his Chicago Machine upbringing is perfectly plausible. That is all the article is saying.

 

[Luissa]

Exactly. The Ayers connection is irrelevent at this point. However, hammering Obama on his Chicago Machine upbringing is perfectly plausible. That is all the article is saying.

At least he didn't have to marry into politics.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

At least he didn't have to marry into politics.

Really? Are you really being this petty?

 

[Ravi]

Wow, you read that completely out of context. Are you really that stupid?

I guess I must be. You tell me what it means.

How about if I said, "the problem with Crimson is not that he's a man" it would imply that you are a man, just like this statement about bomb-throwers implies Obama is a bomb thrower.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I guess I must be. You tell me what it means.

How about if I said, "the problem with Crimson is not that he's a man" it would imply that you are a man, just like this statement about bomb-throwers implies Obama is a bomb thrower.

It does not. The McCain campaign (ie. Palin) is portraying Obama as a bomb thrower. Frum is saying that isn't the problem, then he gives us a lesser offense. He is qualifying Obama's relationship with Ayer's as ridiculous. Is the English language really this hard for you to grasp?

 

[Ravi]

No.

The real problem with Barack Obama is not that he's a bomb-thrower, but that he's a product of the "Chicago way."

It is saying him being a bomb-thrower isn't the problem, him being a product of the Chicago way is the problem.

 

[Silence]

try reading it this way Ravi

The real problem with Barack Obama is not that he's a bomb-thrower (because he's not), but that he's a product of the "Chicago way." (because he is)

I know it's easy to get all full of piss and vinegar, especially in light of Palin's attacks but the man is basically saying trying to turn Obama into something he's not is less productive than pointing out what he is. At least that's how I read it and I'm an Obama supporter just like you.

 

[Ravi]

try reading it this way Ravi

The real problem with Barack Obama is not that he's a bomb-thrower (because he's not), but that he's a product of the "Chicago way." (because he is)

I know it's easy to get all full of piss and vinegar, especially in light of Palin's attacks but the man is basically saying trying to turn Obama into something he's not is less productive than pointing out what he is. At least that's how I read it and I'm an Obama supporter just like you.

The author could certainly have added in what you did to make his point. It is not phrased in a manner that makes his intent clear. And even the slightest allegation that Obama is a bomb-thrower is defamation of character.

 

[Luissa]

Really? Are you really being this petty?

You guys always talk about his Chicago connections and his upbringings, my point is he didn't have the option to marry a women who's father had connections in Arizona politics and he didn't divorce his first wife to do this. And what about McCain's role model?DownWithTyranny!: John McCain's Ideas Of A Role Model And The American Dream

 

[jusstyjonesy]

Hmmmm I wonder if you said this about Kerry in '04 . . . repeat after me . . . the wife or husband of the candidate's bank account does not matter, and I can only imagine their spouses political views would matter if they either a) spoke at campaign rallies for them, or b) if they were markedly extreme in either direction.

 

[Luissa]

Hmmmm I wonder if you said this about Kerry in '04 . . . repeat after me . . . the wife or husband of the candidate's bank account does not matter, and I can only imagine their spouses political views would matter if they either a) spoke at campaign rallies for them, or b) if they were markedly extreme in either direction.

Actually I did, and my opinion on Kerry is stated on here! I thought he was a terrible choice for the nom! I think I have stated this in another thread! And extreme in another way? What was Todd Palin a supporter of?

 

[rayboyusmc]

David Frum - The Axis of Evil guy? The former Bush speech writer?

 

[Luissa]

I think we should just start a forum called "Ayers and Obama" since there is about a hundred threads on this!