The Challenge of Climate Change...

fncceo

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2016
42,726
35,313
3,615
It seems these days, a lot of folks are obsessed with a phenomenon called "Climate Change". Apparently, as the phenomenon is explained, human beings are directly impacting the climate of The Earth in a way that will cause all life on Earth to go extinct in a fairly short time (historically speaking).

Like many beliefs, the belief in catastrophic climate change is based partly on observation and partly on indoctrination. The percentage of those parts vary differently from individual to individual.

Like most beliefs, there is an important drive in believers to make sure as many people as possible believe in the exact same thing. Those who can't be convinced to believe must be marginalized as "anti the belief", a "denier" of the belief", infidel, apostate, heretic, are also frequently used. The purpose of the marginalization is to assure that the tenets of the belief cannot be challenged, as anyone who might challenge the belief is already labeled and their input is therefore invalid.

As for the belief in catastrophic climate change, it is pointless to argue the minutiae of the belief such as variations in global temperature, percentage of gasses in the atmosphere, and predictions on how these may or may not affect humans on the world. It's pointless because there is no way for a normal individual to verify or disprove claims. They must be taken as articles of faith. Another reason they are pointless is that they don't change the fundamental questions of, "What is actually going on?", "What, if anything, do we do to change what is going on?, and, most important, "Is anything we actually do going to have an overall net positive or negative effect on humans?".

It's akin to arguing, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?", before you've established the existence of angels and if they do in fact actually dance.

artworks-000615473323-4dlcbg-t500x500.jpg


The challenge to the believers in catastrophic climate change is, without answering the fundamental questions above, there can never be any meaningful discussion about what we actually do about it.

If you are a firm believer in catastrophic climate change, you are already convinced that something (anything) needs to be done and you are challenged by the fact that you cannot take action without convincing a majority of others to agree (or, at least not actively reject) to what you want to be done.

Without a critical mass of believers, willing to do what you want, you have limited options to actual changes to society you feel need to be implemented.

You can:

A) Hold an inquisition. Make sure that people who don't believe (and have the power to resist change) are isolated and removed from any position where they might interfere with your changes.

B) Seize political power. Obtain enough political power to implement changes even in the face of resistance from the masses.

C) Seek solutions that don't require either political will or government mandate. Privately fund solutions such as commercial energy alternatives, carbon heat sinks, or alternative technologies.


However you seek to face the challenges of changing hearts and minds (as well as lifestyles) of the majority of humans on this Earth, it probably won't be solved by posting argumentative threads about how many tenths of a degree temperature difference occurred between last week and this week or how many parts per million of a particular gas is measured in Timbuktu.
 
Last edited:
All it takes is DATA.

The warmers had to prove that increasing atmospheric Co2 warms the atmosphere. They NEVER did that.

We have two and only two measures of atmospheric temps = satellites and balloons.

Both were highly correlated and showed NO WARMING despite rising Co2. What happened in 2005 was nothing short of the most conflicted fudge job in science history...





satellite and weather balloon data have actually suggested the opposite, that the atmosphere was cooling.

Scientists were left with two choices: either the atmosphere wasn't warming up, or something was wrong with the data



Gotta love the word "suggested" there. Your outside thermometer "suggested" it was 70F outside, but what you really need is a conflicted taxpayer funded "scientist" to "correct" your thermometer to show "warming" so it reads 80F....


The warmers fudged both with laughable "corrections"

Orbit wobble

Shade issues for the balloons, issues that were constant the whole time, so measurement of temperature CHANGES was completely unaffected.



The Co2 fraud should have been shut down in 2007 (W/Mukasey) and 2010(homO/Holder) but wasn't because neither cared about truth or America. The Co2 fraud is an ongoing disaster for America and for the actual environment, and needs to be shut down.
 
It seems these days, a lot of folks are obsessed with a phenomenon called "Climate Change". Apparently, as the phenomenon is explained, human beings are directly impacting the climate of The Earth in a way that will cause all life on Earth to go extinct in a fairly short time (historically speaking).

Like many beliefs, the belief in catastrophic climate change is based partly on observation and partly on indoctrination. The percentage of those parts vary differently from individual to individual.

Like most beliefs, there is an important drive in believers to make sure as many people as possible believe in the exact same thing. Those who can't be convinced to believe must be marginalized as "anti the belief", a "denier" of the belief", infidel, apostate, heretic, are also frequently used. The purpose of the marginalization is to assure that the tenets of the belief cannot be challenged, as anyone who might challenge the belief is already labeled and their input is therefore invalid.

As for the belief in catastrophic climate change, it is pointless to argue the minutiae of the belief such as variations in global temperature, percentage of gasses in the atmosphere, and predictions on how these may or may not affect humans on the world. It's pointless because there is no way for a normal individual to verify or disprove claims. They must be taken as articles of faith. Another reason they are pointless is that they don't change the fundamental questions of, "What is actually going on?", "What, if anything, do we do to change what is going on?, and, most important, "Is anything we actually do going to have an overall net positive or negative effect on humans?".

It's akin to arguing, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?", before you've established the existence of angels and if they do in fact actually dance.

View attachment 790938

The challenge to the believers in catastrophic climate change is, without answering the fundamental questions above, there can never be any meaningful discussion about what we actually do about it.

If you are a firm believer in catastrophic climate change, you are already convinced that something (anything) needs to be done and you are challenged by the fact that you cannot take action without convincing a majority of others to agree (or, at least not actively reject) to what you want to be done.

Without a critical mass of believers, willing to do what you want, you have limited options to actual changes to society you feel need to be implemented.

You can:

A) Hold an inquisition. Make sure that people who don't believe (and have the power to resist change) are isolated and removed from any position where they might interfere with your changes.

B) Seize political power. Obtain enough political power to implement changes even in the face of resistance from the masses.

C) Seek solutions that don't require either political will or government mandate. Privately fund solutions such as commercial energy alternatives, carbon heat sinks, or alternative technologies.


However you seek to face the challenges of changing hearts and minds (as well as lifestyles) of the majority of humans on this Earth, it probably won't be solved by posting argumentative threads about how many tenths of a degree temperature difference occurred between last week and this week or how many parts per million of a particular gas is measured in Timbuktu.
Well, like I always say, if they want to prove humans cause global climate change, do an experiment to prove it. Bring rain to an arid area. Re-direct tornados and hurricanes away from human habitation. Things like that.
 
It seems these days, a lot of folks are obsessed with a phenomenon called "Climate Change". Apparently, as the phenomenon is explained, human beings are directly impacting the climate of The Earth in a way that will cause all life on Earth to go extinct in a fairly short time (historically speaking).

Like many beliefs, the belief in catastrophic climate change is based partly on observation and partly on indoctrination. The percentage of those parts vary differently from individual to individual.

Like most beliefs, there is an important drive in believers to make sure as many people as possible believe in the exact same thing. Those who can't be convinced to believe must be marginalized as "anti the belief", a "denier" of the belief", infidel, apostate, heretic, are also frequently used. The purpose of the marginalization is to assure that the tenets of the belief cannot be challenged, as anyone who might challenge the belief is already labeled and their input is therefore invalid.

As for the belief in catastrophic climate change, it is pointless to argue the minutiae of the belief such as variations in global temperature, percentage of gasses in the atmosphere, and predictions on how these may or may not affect humans on the world. It's pointless because there is no way for a normal individual to verify or disprove claims. They must be taken as articles of faith. Another reason they are pointless is that they don't change the fundamental questions of, "What is actually going on?", "What, if anything, do we do to change what is going on?, and, most important, "Is anything we actually do going to have an overall net positive or negative effect on humans?".

It's akin to arguing, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?", before you've established the existence of angels and if they do in fact actually dance.

View attachment 790938

The challenge to the believers in catastrophic climate change is, without answering the fundamental questions above, there can never be any meaningful discussion about what we actually do about it.

If you are a firm believer in catastrophic climate change, you are already convinced that something (anything) needs to be done and you are challenged by the fact that you cannot take action without convincing a majority of others to agree (or, at least not actively reject) to what you want to be done.

Without a critical mass of believers, willing to do what you want, you have limited options to actual changes to society you feel need to be implemented.

You can:

A) Hold an inquisition. Make sure that people who don't believe (and have the power to resist change) are isolated and removed from any position where they might interfere with your changes.

B) Seize political power. Obtain enough political power to implement changes even in the face of resistance from the masses.

C) Seek solutions that don't require either political will or government mandate. Privately fund solutions such as commercial energy alternatives, carbon heat sinks, or alternative technologies.


However you seek to face the challenges of changing hearts and minds (as well as lifestyles) of the majority of humans on this Earth, it probably won't be solved by posting argumentative threads about how many tenths of a degree temperature difference occurred between last week and this week or how many parts per million of a particular gas is measured in Timbuktu.



You missed one important fact. There is no observed data to support the climate change claims.

There are computer derived fictional tales, but no actual data.
 
It seems these days, a lot of folks are obsessed with a phenomenon called "Climate Change". Apparently, as the phenomenon is explained, human beings are directly impacting the climate of The Earth in a way that will cause all life on Earth to go extinct in a fairly short time (historically speaking).

Like many beliefs, the belief in catastrophic climate change is based partly on observation and partly on indoctrination. The percentage of those parts vary differently from individual to individual.

Like most beliefs, there is an important drive in believers to make sure as many people as possible believe in the exact same thing. Those who can't be convinced to believe must be marginalized as "anti the belief", a "denier" of the belief", infidel, apostate, heretic, are also frequently used. The purpose of the marginalization is to assure that the tenets of the belief cannot be challenged, as anyone who might challenge the belief is already labeled and their input is therefore invalid.

As for the belief in catastrophic climate change, it is pointless to argue the minutiae of the belief such as variations in global temperature, percentage of gasses in the atmosphere, and predictions on how these may or may not affect humans on the world. It's pointless because there is no way for a normal individual to verify or disprove claims. They must be taken as articles of faith. Another reason they are pointless is that they don't change the fundamental questions of, "What is actually going on?", "What, if anything, do we do to change what is going on?, and, most important, "Is anything we actually do going to have an overall net positive or negative effect on humans?".

It's akin to arguing, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?", before you've established the existence of angels and if they do in fact actually dance.

View attachment 790938

The challenge to the believers in catastrophic climate change is, without answering the fundamental questions above, there can never be any meaningful discussion about what we actually do about it.

If you are a firm believer in catastrophic climate change, you are already convinced that something (anything) needs to be done and you are challenged by the fact that you cannot take action without convincing a majority of others to agree (or, at least not actively reject) to what you want to be done.

Without a critical mass of believers, willing to do what you want, you have limited options to actual changes to society you feel need to be implemented.

You can:

A) Hold an inquisition. Make sure that people who don't believe (and have the power to resist change) are isolated and removed from any position where they might interfere with your changes.

B) Seize political power. Obtain enough political power to implement changes even in the face of resistance from the masses.

C) Seek solutions that don't require either political will or government mandate. Privately fund solutions such as commercial energy alternatives, carbon heat sinks, or alternative technologies.


However you seek to face the challenges of changing hearts and minds (as well as lifestyles) of the majority of humans on this Earth, it probably won't be solved by posting argumentative threads about how many tenths of a degree temperature difference occurred between last week and this week or how many parts per million of a particular gas is measured in Timbuktu.
And what size are angels?
 
Sounds like you would just have a heart attack and die if a butterfly asked you a simple, logical question. Dog knows this squirrel has gotten nowhere fast!
 
It's not science unless we can measure it ... so how do we measure climate? ... well ... climate is average weather ... how do we measure weather? ... there's six things we measure when we describe weather scientifically: pressure, temperature, humidity, winds, visibility and precipitation ... the order of important depends on the application ... and here we're concerned with "change" ...

Pressure is going to be constant ... average is 1013 millibars ... relative humidity doesn't change ... saturation is saturation ... wind direction is the same (and so are weather patterns because of this) ... visibility doesn't change except with respect to ... precipitation ...

If it's just temperature changing ... then we're not looking at any climate change humans could notice ... 1ºC over 100 years is nothing ... 2ºC over 200 years is the same ...

=====

"No comments about rainfall?" ... or the larger question of precipitation in all her forms ... well, I don't know ... warmer means wetter, absolute humidity will increase with increasing temperature ... but this balanced against a general slowdown of the large-scale circulation in the atmosphere ... if Arctic Amplification is real ... less average power means less likely for power to concentrate into a single storm ... more rain from less powerful storm means more widespread coverage ... less likely to flood ... on the third hand any flood event that relies on snow melt will find less snow with warmer temperatures ... I could go on, or you can just believe me when I say I don't know ... too early in the morning to highlight all the weasel words above ... "if Arctic Amplification is real" is supposed to be a red flag ...

But does this change climate? ... flooding where there's been flooding before? ... or no flooding where there's been flooding before? ... that would be a very very narrow definition of climate, and completely useless ... people who live in Florida don't care about 100-year flood events ... they just don't care ...

More white clouds with all this extra precipitation ... that increases albedo ... a rather profound negative feedback mechanism to global warming ...
 
climate is average weather



The climate is the parameter which allows current weather. Climate is not wind, it is not jet stream, it is not ocean currents.

It is ocean level, temperature, atmospheric thickness, and humidity, all controlled by how much ICE is on the planet.

More ice = lower oceans, lower temperature, thinner atmosphere, less humidity

What controls ice on Earth is the position of land

Antarctica - 90%
Greenland - 7%

and land moves.

It really isn't that hard to understand.
 
The climate is the parameter which allows current weather. Climate is not wind, it is not jet stream, it is not ocean currents.

It is ocean level, temperature, atmospheric thickness, and humidity, all controlled by how much ICE is on the planet.

More ice = lower oceans, lower temperature, thinner atmosphere, less humidity

What controls ice on Earth is the position of land

Antarctica - 90%
Greenland - 7%

and land moves.

It really isn't that hard to understand.

If this is science, then what is your measure? ... ice is water ... it's existance IN the atmosphere is measured with precipitation ... basic meteorology ...

Just multiply solar irradiation by the cosine of latitude ... that's proof positive you're wrong ... when you get to high school, take their geometry class ... it's fun ...
 
Like co2 is .4% of atmospheric gases?

Well ... no ... the flap of a butterfly's wing creates a vortex in the air ... inherent in the vortex structure is low pressure lying along the axis of rotation ... if the air is saturated with moisture ... lowering the pressure causes condensation and the release of 2kJ/g of energy into the environment ... a portion of which is applied to the vortex as torque ... back to the beginning lowering pressure ... a positive feedback mechanism powered by water's latent heat of condensation ...

Just one little tiny pocket of dry air and the whole thing falls apart ... very likely for vortices the size of butterfly wings ... this effect can persist for a few seconds after the passage of a jet fighter plane ... or 20 minutes for vortices the size of tornadoes ... perhaps weeks for typhoon sized ... and apparently millennia for storms the size of the Great Red Spot on Jupiter ... the physics is the same, just different energy levels ...

That's different from going back in time and killing a butterfly ... then Steve Jobs would never be born and Windoze would run the internet ... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... and leopards ate every last Australopithecus and humans never evolved ... just weasels using the web ...
 
USMB definitely runs on Weasel.
inherent in the vortex structure is low pressure lying along the axis of rotation
Nice. Or the butterfly takes advantage of the Aether by jamming its spatial flap energy into (fixed, linear, axial) atmospheric vortices (air pressure vacuums, capacitances) in periodic fashion, which then provide it a well timed kick in the butt upon release of that energy back into inductive, three coordinate, magnetic space. Makes sense that moisture content plays a critical roll as well.
 
If this is science, then what is your measure? ... ice is water ... it's existance IN the atmosphere is measured with precipitation ... basic meteorology ...

Just multiply solar irradiation by the cosine of latitude ... that's proof positive you're wrong ... when you get to high school, take their geometry class ... it's fun ...


And your formula explains why Alaska is trees and moose north of Arctic Circle while Greenland is ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle... NOT.

Your side has lots of cosines and derivatives, and they are all bullshit since the correlation of Co2 and atmospheric temps is ABSOLUTE ZERO per the satellites and balloons.

You must explain the DATA, and your formula above whiffs completely.

Care to tell us Greenland and Antarctica are NOT ICE AGES??

LOL!!!
 
And your formula explains why Alaska is trees and moose north of Arctic Circle while Greenland is ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle... NOT.

Your side has lots of cosines and derivatives, and they are all bullshit since the correlation of Co2 and atmospheric temps is ABSOLUTE ZERO per the satellites and balloons.

You must explain the DATA, and your formula above whiffs completely.

Care to tell us Greenland and Antarctica are NOT ICE AGES??

LOL!!!
Well it is the number one thing none of them can explain. No heat measured in the area they say more heat comes from! In order to radiate heat, heat would need to exist!!
 
Last edited:
We’ll it is the number one thing none of them can explain. No heat measured in the area they say more heat comes from! In order to radiate heat, heat would need to exist!!


They manufacture fudge and then trot out these bozos to talk math about it...

They cannot explain THE DATA.
 

Forum List

Back
Top