The Big Flaw in Libertarianism

[Polk]

Speaking of jury nullification, would a guilty verdict for Zimmerman effectively nullify the stand your ground law?

No, because a guilty verdict for Zimmerman would likely be based on the jury's belief his actions didn't place him in the scope of the statute.

 

[Polk]

How about the SCOTUS and judicial review? Are those 9 people representative of the entire country?

No, they're not, but they are also not intended to be.

I'm still not sure what your beef is with the concept of jury nullification. Are you saying you don't believe jurors should be allowed to vote their conscience? Do you realize that even if a jury 'nullifies' a law with a verdict in a particular case that it doesn't actually repeal the law?

Jurors can vote their conscience by acquitting the defendant. A group of 12 unelected, unaccountable people should not be able to change the law on a whim, even when their change only applies in a single case.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I "swore" that?

Yep, and the entire forum saw it. Your union buddies were going to "drive Walker out."

I said if he won he would be much more amenable to the other side. Let's see if that happens.

ROFL

Bullshit, you were just like Chris, swearing Walker was gone.

And let's see if you can tell the truth.

Irony.

 

[konradv]

Wrong.

Absolutely correct

No, it actually means Congress cannot favor one group over another, everything they do is supposed to benefit all citizens equally.

Sounds ridiculous. How can one possibly ensure that all citizens are benefited equally? It's simply a libertarian fairy tale that "proves" the government isn't allowed to do anything.

 

[Polk]

Wrong.

Absolutely correct

No, it actually means Congress cannot favor one group over another, everything they do is supposed to benefit all citizens equally.

No, that's what the equal protection clause does.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I "swore" that?

Yep, and the entire forum saw it. Your union buddies were going to "drive Walker out."

I said if he won he would be much more amenable to the other side. Let's see if that happens.

ROFL

Bullshit, you were just like Chris, swearing Walker was gone.

And let's see if you can tell the truth.

Irony.

Nah, you are wrong as usual. But truth telling is not your forte. Going to vote for my man, Romney?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nah, you are wrong as usual. But truth telling is not your forte. Going to vote for my man, Romney?

Jake, the reason that you're a leftist is that you're stupid.

{Amelia, the objective facts are very clear. Walker pwnd himself in WI by promising and carrying out threats against the Wisconsin working man and woman. How in heaven's name did you think they would react? The used the legitimate tools of democracy to tell him and the minority with him, "No, you are not, and when we get done, you are going home for good. Not in my state you aren't."}

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-r...r-is-going-to-be-recalled-21.html#post4444153

Fakey Jake, an utter fraud and moron...

 

[Foxfyre]

Why don't we just use the actual numbers instead of charts and graphs?

US Government Spending: Total, Federal, State, Local for 2012 - Charts
Federal expenditures – in billions

Last two Years of Ford
1975 - .332
1976 - .372

Carter
1977 - .409
1978 - .459
1979 - .504
1980 - .591

Reagan
1981 - .678
1982 - .746
1983 - .808
1984 - .852
1985 - .946
1986 - .990
1987 – 1.004
1988 – 1.064

George H.W. Bush
1989 – 1.144
1990 – 1.253
1991 – 1.324
1992 – 1.382

Clinton
1993 – 1.409
1994 – 1.462
1995 – 1.516
1996 – 1.506
1997 – 1.601
1998 - 1.642
1999 – 1.702
2000 – 1.8

George W. Bush
2001 – 1.9
2002 – 2.0
2003 – 2.2
2004 – 2.4
2005 – 2.7
2006 – 2.7
2008 – 3.0

Obama
2009 – 3.5
2010 – 3.5
2011 – 3.6
2012 – 3.8 (projected)

********************************
Surplus or deficit as percentage of GDP
US Federal Deficit as Percentage of GDP by Year

Note: 2008 numbers include ½ of Tarp that were in addition to budget.

The 2009 numbers include `1/2 of Tarp and the Stimulus package
that were in addition to budget plus a bloated appropriations package including multiple billions of pork included by both parties.

Date Surplus or Deficit(-) Percent
Dec 31, 2011 -8.70%
Dec 31, 2010 -9.00%
Dec 31, 2009 -10.10%

Dec 31, 2008 -3.20%
Dec 31, 2007 -1.20%
Dec 31, 2006 -1.90%
Dec 31, 2005 -2.60%
Dec 31, 2004 -3.50%
Dec 31, 2003 -3.40%
Dec 31, 2002 -1.50%
Dec 31, 2001 1.30%

Dec 31, 2000 2.40%
Dec 31, 1999 1.40%
Dec 31, 1998 0.80%
Dec 31, 1997 -0.30%
Dec 31, 1996 -1.40%
Dec 31, 1995 -2.20%
Dec 31, 1994 -2.90%
Dec 31, 1993 -3.90%

Dec 31, 1992 -4.70%
Dec 31, 1991 -4.50%
Dec 31, 1990 -3.90%
Dec 31, 1989 -2.80%

Dec 31, 1988 -3.10%
Dec 31, 1987 -3.20%
Dec 31, 1986 -5.00%
Dec 31, 1985 -5.10%
Dec 31, 1984 -4.80%
Dec 31, 1983 -6.00%
Dec 31, 1982 -4.00%
Dec 31, 1981 -2.60%

Dec 31, 1980 -2.70%
Dec 31, 1979 -1.60%
Dec 31, 1978 -2.70%
Dec 31, 1977 -2.70%

Dec 31, 1976 -4.20%
Dec 31, 1975 -3.40%

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Speaking of jury nullification, would a guilty verdict for Zimmerman effectively nullify the stand your ground law?

No

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Speaking of jury nullification, would a guilty verdict for Zimmerman effectively nullify the stand your ground law?

No, it would simply prove why we need jury nullification.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Speaking of jury nullification, would a guilty verdict for Zimmerman effectively nullify the stand your ground law?

No, it would simply prove why we need jury nullification.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Speaking of jury nullification, would a guilty verdict for Zimmerman effectively nullify the stand your ground law?

No

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nah, you are wrong as usual. But truth telling is not your forte. Going to vote for my man, Romney?

Jake, the reason that you're a leftist is that you're stupid. {Amelia, the objective facts are very clear. Walker pwnd himself in WI by promising and carrying out threats against the Wisconsin working man and woman. How in heaven's name did you think they would react? The used the legitimate tools of democracy to tell him and the minority with him, "No, you are not, and when we get done, you are going home for good. Not in my state you aren't."} http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-r...r-is-going-to-be-recalled-21.html#post4444153 Fakey Jake, an utter fraud and moron...

From November 2011. Have you checked on what I have written since then. And have you checked that with what I have written above. Better do it, or I am going to make you look even more stupid than you normally do, Uncensored.

Go for it, sonny. I told you since then, some months ago, as Walker looked weakened, that if he survived, he would be more amenable to his enemies. Better look it up, Uncensored.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Speaking of jury nullification, would a guilty verdict for Zimmerman effectively nullify the stand your ground law?

No

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, they're not, but they are also not intended to be.

I'm still not sure what your beef is with the concept of jury nullification. Are you saying you don't believe jurors should be allowed to vote their conscience? Do you realize that even if a jury 'nullifies' a law with a verdict in a particular case that it doesn't actually repeal the law?

Jurors can vote their conscience by acquitting the defendant. A group of 12 unelected, unaccountable people should not be able to change the law on a whim, even when their change only applies in a single case.

What makes you thing members of juries are uneducated? What makes you think the decision to nullify a law is a whim?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Absolutely correct

No, it actually means Congress cannot favor one group over another, everything they do is supposed to benefit all citizens equally.

Sounds ridiculous. How can one possibly ensure that all citizens are benefited equally? It's simply a libertarian fairy tale that "proves" the government isn't allowed to do anything.

That is your rational for ignoring it?

It is supposed to prevent laws that are designed to give one group more power than others. The problem is people like you thought that was impossible, so we ended up with affirmative action and Jim Crow laws.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Absolutely correct

No, it actually means Congress cannot favor one group over another, everything they do is supposed to benefit all citizens equally.

No, that's what the equal protection clause does.

Wrong again. The equal protection clause was intended to protect people from states enacting laws that benefited one group over another, it only applies peripherally to the federal government.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, it actually means Congress cannot favor one group over another, everything they do is supposed to benefit all citizens equally.

Sounds ridiculous. How can one possibly ensure that all citizens are benefited equally? It's simply a libertarian fairy tale that "proves" the government isn't allowed to do anything.

That is your rational for ignoring it?

It is supposed to prevent laws that are designed to give one group more power than others. The problem is people like you thought that was impossible, so we ended up with affirmative action and Jim Crow laws.

Jury Nullification is a fact, period. Nothing will change that fact.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sounds ridiculous. How can one possibly ensure that all citizens are benefited equally? It's simply a libertarian fairy tale that "proves" the government isn't allowed to do anything.

That is your rational for ignoring it?

It is supposed to prevent laws that are designed to give one group more power than others. The problem is people like you thought that was impossible, so we ended up with affirmative action and Jim Crow laws.

Jury Nullification is a fact, period. Nothing will change that fact.

Gee, thanks for agreeing with me, but what you said has nothing to do with my reply to konradv.

 

[Uncensored2008]

From November 2011. Have you checked on what I have written since then.

Mostly "republicans suck, Obama is god" kind of crap. Usual Maddow bullshit...

And have you checked that with what I have written above. Better do it, or I am going to make you look even more stupid than you normally do, Uncensored.

Fakey, they only person you've ever made look stupid around here is you - and this is a prime example.

Go for it, sonny. I told you since then, some months ago, as Walker looked weakened, that if he survived, he would be more amenable to his enemies. Better look it up, Uncensored.

In fact Fakey, it is your side that will be more amenable, now that you've been utterly defeated.