The Bible. Myth or Reality?

[Bonzi]

So you will ignore the majority of Christians to maintain your homophobia.

Why does your God create gays?

Just for those of your ilk to hate or does he have some other motive?

Will go back and look at #128 in a sec.....

Well, I'm not homophobic. irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. I'm not afraid of homosexuals. I'm not even averse to them. I actually enjoy being around them because they are fun and funny -

Oooh I feel another debate coming on with this question. God created us. Our sin caused us to now have to deal with all kinds of issues. God did not create us to be gay, no. God did not create child molesters. God did not create rapists. God did no create heterosexual sex addicts or habitual "cheaters".

Again, I don't hate. Please give me an example of a hateful thing I have said.

If God did not create those sinners, who did?

Is God not the creator or all that is?

If not, who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

Well, God is 3 persons....and, God gave us free will which we used going against his instruction which brought sin into the world

 

[GreatestIam]

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.
Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice. God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard with hell. Hell used here is the eternal fire and torture .....

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years? He doesn't have to. It's his choice to go there.

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs? We are all sinful and imperfect in God's eyes. Only through Jesus can we be acceptable in his sight. Being a Christian, I can divorce myself from God's justice.

This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression. God called for many people to be murdered (children women animals etc.)

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent. Uh no. Not sure if you are speaking about men punishing or God here (pardon my ignorance...)

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result? Hell was created for Satan and his demons. Unfortunately, people that reject God/Jesus will go there as this is their choice.

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose? Again, being a Christian, I can't say I would know better than God. No man knows better than God.

Is hell a moral construct or not? - God alone gets to determine what is moral.

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

My moral judgment is that God is the moral compass. Since I believe he is perfect, he can't make errors.
Now, you can ask me "If you were God, would you....." I could answer but still, I know I don't know better than God so if I determined the moral compass, it would be wrong.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years? He doesn't have to. It's his choice to go there

Really?

One would have to be insane to choose eternal torture or death. No?

What 9other choice can that souls choose?
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2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs? We are all sinful and imperfect in God's eyes. Only through Jesus can we be acceptable in his sight. Being a Christian, I can divorce myself from God's justice

You did not answer the question. Try again.
------------------------------
This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression. God called for many people to be murdered (children women animals etc.)

Yes. It seems you do not mind God murdering.
Strange that you adore a murderer.
------------------------------

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent. Uh no. Not sure if you are speaking about men punishing or God here (pardon my ignorance...)

Either or.

If those are not the reasons we punish then why do we punish?
------------------------------

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result? Hell was created for Satan and his demons. Unfortunately, people that reject God/Jesus will go there as this is their choice.

Again you fail to answer the question and I dealt with your foolish notion on our souls having a choice above. Perhaps you will be forthcoming with a decent answer this time.
----------------------------

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose? Again, being a Christian, I can't say I would know better than God. No man knows better than God.

Strange that God himself says that man can match his moral sense, --- they have become like us to know good and evil, yet you think yourself too stupid to be able to judge even though your bible tell you to do just that.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
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Is hell a moral construct or not? - God alone gets to determine what is moral.

Again you cop out. If that is all you have then we will not chat much. You are like a child who has to ask mommy for every answer.
--------------------------

You seem to think that God is a good judge of morals.

Do you think it moral to torture a baby for 6 days before finally killing it, all because of the torturers anger at the father?

Your God says yes as that is what he did. Do you agree with him?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

So you will ignore the majority of Christians to maintain your homophobia.

Why does your God create gays?

Just for those of your ilk to hate or does he have some other motive?

Will go back and look at #128 in a sec.....

Well, I'm not homophobic. irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. I'm not afraid of homosexuals. I'm not even averse to them. I actually enjoy being around them because they are fun and funny -

Oooh I feel another debate coming on with this question. God created us. Our sin caused us to now have to deal with all kinds of issues. God did not create us to be gay, no. God did not create child molesters. God did not create rapists. God did no create heterosexual sex addicts or habitual "cheaters".

Again, I don't hate. Please give me an example of a hateful thing I have said.

If God did not create those sinners, who did?

Is God not the creator or all that is?

If not, who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

Well, God is 3 persons....and, God gave us free will which we used going against his instruction which brought sin into the world

Again you cop out and ignore the questions posed.

If that is your best I don't know why you are here.

Why is your God creating people for you to hate?

Regards
DL

 

[aris2chat]

So you will ignore the majority of Christians to maintain your homophobia.

Why does your God create gays?

Just for those of your ilk to hate or does he have some other motive?

Will go back and look at #128 in a sec.....

Well, I'm not homophobic. irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. I'm not afraid of homosexuals. I'm not even averse to them. I actually enjoy being around them because they are fun and funny -

Oooh I feel another debate coming on with this question. God created us. Our sin caused us to now have to deal with all kinds of issues. God did not create us to be gay, no. God did not create child molesters. God did not create rapists. God did no create heterosexual sex addicts or habitual "cheaters".

Again, I don't hate. Please give me an example of a hateful thing I have said.

If God did not create those sinners, who did?

Is God not the creator or all that is?

If not, who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

Well, God is 3 persons....and, God gave us free will which we used going against his instruction which brought sin into the world

Why three? If god is, then god is god, just one. If their are more than one it is not just a god but gods, pantheon. Is God all powerful and all knowing or does he have to collaborate with other gods?
If you are taking about aspects or sides of a personality, then you are talking of something less than god, an evolving emotional being that is learning and growing.
Does god have human characteristics and flaws or is it 'god'? Did we create god in our image?
Why if god is god does he need angles and who is one angle a rival to god that is the creator? Does that make the angle like a god? Then there are two gods, or more if there are other angles competing as well.
If god can wipe out mankind with a thought, because he is in a bad mood, why not the angles struggling for his chair?
Why can we be bad and punished but not the angles?

If there is a god creator, then he should be more like the force, an energy we can all tap into. A spirit we might someday evolve into. Maybe we join with that energy and make it stronger, or perhaps we become the rival of that force.

Better we worry about this life and this planet first. If god is the creator then all people are our brothers and sister. We are all family. The worst thing is to fight and hurt family. Reason not prayer will help us now and in the future. Praying for a god to intervene is surrendering and becoming a slave. We have to manage our own struggles and challenge in life. We have to believe in ourselves not resign ourselves to fate or god mercy. We have to be smart and strong as well as kind. We can't be weak and expect god to fight our battles for us. We either live and grow as a person or we give up and die.

God does not need our prayer, or offerings, just to see us become better people. It is not our suffering but our joys that a makes a parent happy. Why should a creator god be any different? Why should be need to suffer to make god feel better about himself? Is he a god or a sadist? Should we sing with joy or cower in fear of damnation?

Are we to kill in the name of god or save lives instead? Are we to destroy the lives of others or help them to build?
Is god vengeful and cruel or loving and kind? What type of god is more deserving of our respect? Which one make a better friend to walk by your side in life?

You don't need churches. You don't need golden alters and silk robes. You don't need to crawl on the ground five times a day, or miles on your knees across rocks and ice. You don't need to have people tell you how to believe. You only need to look inside yourself and try to be the best person you can.

Religious text teach us as much as fables and fairy tales that have a moral. They are tools to give us examples on how to be better people, not witches and trolls. We all want the happily ever after, to be the heroes of the story. So let us each write our own story and be the hero to others. Let us be the example for the next generation.

 

[Bonzi]

Why three? If god is, then god is god, just one. If their are more than one it is not just a god but gods, pantheon. Is God all powerful and all knowing or does he have to collaborate with other gods?
If you are taking about aspects or sides of a personality, then you are talking of something less than god, an evolving emotional being that is learning and growing.

God is 3 in one. In Genesis the scripture says "We" - meaning God, Son and Holy Spirit. 3 separate entities, but all 1 God.

 

[Bonzi]

Why can we be bad and punished but not the angles?

The angels WERE punished. They were banished from Heaven - and Hell was created just for them

 

[Bonzi]

If there is a god creator, then he should be more like the force, an energy we can all tap into. A spirit we might someday evolve into. Maybe we join with that energy and make it stronger, or perhaps we become the rival of that force.

There is an energy we can tap into. The Holy Spirit. But only after you give your life over to God, and accept the free gift of salvation, recognizing Jesus died for your sins so you can have true life, the Holy Spirit living inside you.

 

[Bonzi]

Better we worry about this life and this planet first. If god is the creator then all people are our brothers and sister. We are all family. The worst thing is to fight and hurt family. Reason not prayer will help us now and in the future. Praying for a god to intervene is surrendering and becoming a slave. We have to manage our own struggles and challenge in life. We have to believe in ourselves not resign ourselves to fate or god mercy. We have to be smart and strong as well as kind. We can't be weak and expect god to fight our battles for us. We either live and grow as a person or we give up and die.

God does want us to love one another, but, if God and his Kingdom don't come first in our hearts, it means nothing. Our time on this Earth is very limited. The Kingdom is eternal, so, that is what ultimately matters the end. We can best show love to our fellow man by encouraging each other to remain faithful and obedient to God and his word. And to those that are lost and are not saved, to show them God's love and explain to them the Gospel. Our focus, if we are Christian's is GOD FIRST. Not the planet and other people. Although, loving others is right behind loving God.

Sometimes loving people means telling them things they may not want to hear.
Loving people doesn't mean to agree with everything they say and do.

 

[Bonzi]

You only need to look inside yourself and try to be the best person you can

That is a lie of the devil. It's the whole reason we are in a mess now. Adam and Eve thought they knew better than God, disobeyed him, and here we are. We are evil and wicked inside, flawed and if left to doing "what looks right in our own eyes" (this is in scripture and every time people did what was right in their own eyes, it failed) - it is doomed to failure.

 

[GreatestIam]

Why three? If god is, then god is god, just one. If their are more than one it is not just a god but gods, pantheon. Is God all powerful and all knowing or does he have to collaborate with other gods?
If you are taking about aspects or sides of a personality, then you are talking of something less than god, an evolving emotional being that is learning and growing.

God is 3 in one. In Genesis the scripture says "We" - meaning God, Son and Holy Spirit. 3 separate entities, but all 1 God.

If three in one, they would all be equal but scriptures are clear that they are not. Some know things the others do not and some can be insulted with impunity and the other not.

How do you explain that there seems to be more than on consciousness where only one consciousness is allowed?

Let me give you a bit more to think about.



Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Why can we be bad and punished but not the angles?

The angels WERE punished. They were banished from Heaven - and Hell was created just for them

Yes but they were never sent there. Instead, God gave Satan and her friends dominion over the earth and the ability to deceive us all. Quite the gifts.

Why did God reward Satan so nicely if he was angry with her and is justice delayed justice denied in your view?

Or is that one of the moral things you are not allowed to speak to because your God has not given you the answer?

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

So you will ignore the majority of Christians to maintain your homophobia.

Why does your God create gays?

Just for those of your ilk to hate or does he have some other motive?

Will go back and look at #128 in a sec.....

Well, I'm not homophobic. irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. I'm not afraid of homosexuals. I'm not even averse to them. I actually enjoy being around them because they are fun and funny -

Oooh I feel another debate coming on with this question. God created us. Our sin caused us to now have to deal with all kinds of issues. God did not create us to be gay, no. God did not create child molesters. God did not create rapists. God did no create heterosexual sex addicts or habitual "cheaters".

Again, I don't hate. Please give me an example of a hateful thing I have said.

If God did not create those sinners, who did?

Is God not the creator or all that is?

If not, who is God's co-creator?

Regards
DL

Well, God is 3 persons....and, God gave us free will which we used going against his instruction which brought sin into the world

Again you cop out and ignore the questions posed.

If that is your best I don't know why you are here.

Why is your God creating people for you to hate?

Regards
DL

I'm not coping our (consciously) I must just not be understanding it (so I will admit to ignorance....)
I'm here to talk with people about issues. I don't know if it's the best I can do or not. But, ? - not sure why that even matters ... anyway ...

First off, I don't hate anyone. Why do you keep saying I hate people? Can you please go back and point out where I said I hated anyone or even implied it?

God created Adam and Eve (sinless at creation). We procreated from there. God didn't form Hitler in the womb and say "go forth and murder my people". Adam and Eve did not even sin until they CHOSE to do so of their own free will.

 

[GreatestIam]

If there is a god creator, then he should be more like the force, an energy we can all tap into. A spirit we might someday evolve into. Maybe we join with that energy and make it stronger, or perhaps we become the rival of that force.

There is an energy we can tap into. The Holy Spirit. But only after you give your life over to God, and accept the free gift of salvation, recognizing Jesus died for your sins so you can have true life, the Holy Spirit living inside you.

It is not a free gift if one must sell his soul to Satan by embracing barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that it is good justice for us to shed our responsibilities for our sin and to take advantage of the injustice to God's innocent victim.

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

Why can we be bad and punished but not the angles?

The angels WERE punished. They were banished from Heaven - and Hell was created just for them

Yes but they were never sent there. Instead, God gave Satan and her friends dominion over the earth and the ability to deceive us all. Quite the gifts.

Why did God reward Satan so nicely if he was angry with her and is justice delayed justice denied in your view?

Or is that one of the moral things you are not allowed to speak to because your God has not given you the answer?

Regards
DL

They will be sent there eventually. In God's time, this is but a second. I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers, but will defend my faith as best I can and research to find out about things I don't know - or pray for answers - sometimes they are just revealed to me. So, we'll see.

It's not a reward. Satan knows this also. But is doing damage while it's possible to do so.

I'm not disallowed to speak anything (remember, free will). I'll give my opinions, I may even say something that is wrong (from time to time!)....

Why do you attribute a female gender to Satan? Just wondering, not challenging...

 

[GreatestIam]

You only need to look inside yourself and try to be the best person you can

That is a lie of the devil. It's the whole reason we are in a mess now. Adam and Eve thought they knew better than God, disobeyed him, and here we are. We are evil and wicked inside, flawed and if left to doing "what looks right in our own eyes" (this is in scripture and every time people did what was right in their own eyes, it failed) - it is doomed to failure.

Is Jesus a devil to you now?

Because that is exactly what he preached.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

It is not a free gift if one must sell his soul to Satan by embracing barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that it is good justice for us to shed our responsibilities for our sin and to take advantage of the injustice to God's innocent victim.

God offered himself as sacrifice for our sins. Jesus IS God. If you willingly make a sacrifice, you are not an innocent victim. Jesus could have saved himself. He was simply giving us a way to God (by mercy and grace) since Adam and Eve made this mess.

 

[Taz]

None of the big events in the bible can be proven. Thus, it is mainly composed of myths.

 

[Taz]

It is not a free gift if one must sell his soul to Satan by embracing barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that it is good justice for us to shed our responsibilities for our sin and to take advantage of the injustice to God's innocent victim.

God offered himself as sacrifice for our sins. Jesus IS God. If you willingly make a sacrifice, you are not an innocent victim. Jesus could have saved himself. He was simply giving us a way to God (by mercy and grace) since Adam and Eve made this mess.

God preferred that Adam stay in gay heaven with Him and not bang the chick. Is that about right?

 

[Bonzi]

You only need to look inside yourself and try to be the best person you can

That is a lie of the devil. It's the whole reason we are in a mess now. Adam and Eve thought they knew better than God, disobeyed him, and here we are. We are evil and wicked inside, flawed and if left to doing "what looks right in our own eyes" (this is in scripture and every time people did what was right in their own eyes, it failed) - it is doomed to failure.

Is Jesus a devil to you now?

Because that is exactly what he preached.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

Some of these are taken out of context. The one's that are not are directed to Christians, who already have the Holy Spirit living in them.

Satan wants you to believe just follow your heart and do your best and you'll get to heaven. It's just not true.

 

[Bonzi]

None of the big events in the bible can be proven. Thus, it is mainly composed of myths.

Which big events are you talking about?